Deuce Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 That was worse than the vast majority of genocides. behind Cambodia, but just nipping Armenia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "You person from London, we do not like you." Proper venomous that like. Him being from London has got NOTHING to do with it. I dunno how many times it has to brought up with you in particular, you just don't get it like. I do get it. Completely. It just doesn't f***ing matter like you seem to think it does. It matters from a public perception perspective. We'll always be seen as being unjustly harsh on people just because they're from Larndarn. It's not the end of the world, it's just another stick to beat us with, and another way for everyone to bang on about how unrealistic we are. I don't really give a s*** if Londoners think we hate London. We know we don't. Anyone with any sense knows we don't. If they think we do well tough s*** - more fool them for making a stereotype. Well you should give a s***, it puts us in a bad light and gives everyone another stick to beat us with. Just because other fans sing it to opposition players doesn't make it fine, we're doing it to our own owner as if 'cockney' is a derogatory term, if you think that's fine then that's fair enough, but you're a bit naive if you think that other people outside of the club don't believe the same (including players and managers and staff that we might want as some point) Why should I give a s*** if Southerners think that I, as a Geordie, hate them all on the basis of one song against one Southern c***? Even if they do make that assumption - more fool them. Their narrow-mindedness will be far worse than mine for singing that about one person. Quite frankly even if people don't like it when I'm abusive about one of their "own" then that's tough s***. I wouldn't be abusive if he wasn't a c***. Which he clearly is. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd totally expect Southerners to call their owner a Geordie c***, and I wouldn't think they hated all of us for that reason. You should give a s*** because for the last 4 years we've had a manager that was excused by the media, fans, pundits and possibly our own owner from being totally s*** because they assumed we didn't like him for being Southern. It's one of the reasons that he got away with being s*** for so long. And it's not their narrow-mindedness if you're calling someone a cockney ffs. It's yours. If someone called me a thick geordie c***, or any other slur I wouldn't think that it was my own narrow-mindedness for not realising that it was some sort of delightful banter, I'd think they were an ignorant dick, the same is true the other way around. Basically it blurs and undermines any real message from getting through because it's easy to look at it and think that people dislike them because of where they're from and I'm f***ing sick to back teeth of having to explain this to people who wonder why the media talk s*** about us on a regular basis and everything feeds into itself and nothing ever gets better. That bit is just utter s****. Sorry like, it just is. He was excused through his football friends in the media and generally lazy journalism and reporting. We had Hughton who was absolutely loved before him. You're totally missing my point. I'm not saying us singing that isn't narrow-minded. I'm saying them assuming all Geordies hate all Southerners from that one chant is even more narrow-minded. Pardew hardly ever got any grief for being a Cockney. He got grief for being a lying, inept, deceitful c***. Ashley however, is a different matter. It's not a particularly thoughtful chant, but then how many are? If you want them to be bellowed out then they need to be simple so that the masses can get involved. The North-East is one of the poorest regions in Britain so inevitably there will be some discontent towards London anyway. That's not to say it's right, but it probably contributes. He is a fat, rich, London twat. Therefore, if he is called a Cockney so be it. Regardless of how accurate it is. Frustrating it may be but surely the fat and bastard are the offensive parts. The poor reporting is the issue, the disregard for the actual facts. People know about the politics surrounding the local papers and the club so the rest get brandished Southern papers. Which probably isn't far from the truth. I just think this whole debate goes further than football. It's all about people's ideas about what is and isn't offensive and what is / isn't politically correct. I assume those of you kicking up a fuss about "cockney" probably have stronger links than most to the London area? Either that or totally left wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holloway Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 lads howay man ,I only brought it up because I work with the fuckers,and it boils their piss to near derogatory northern monkey levels,take a chillpill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Had to pop out....Did we find out what she/he was inside for? Or if he/she is on the run in Bali?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "You person from London, we do not like you." Proper venomous that like. Him being from London has got NOTHING to do with it. I dunno how many times it has to brought up with you in particular, you just don't get it like. I do get it. Completely. It just doesn't f***ing matter like you seem to think it does. It matters from a public perception perspective. We'll always be seen as being unjustly harsh on people just because they're from Larndarn. It's not the end of the world, it's just another stick to beat us with, and another way for everyone to bang on about how unrealistic we are. I don't really give a s*** if Londoners think we hate London. We know we don't. Anyone with any sense knows we don't. If they think we do well tough s*** - more fool them for making a stereotype. Well you should give a s***, it puts us in a bad light and gives everyone another stick to beat us with. Just because other fans sing it to opposition players doesn't make it fine, we're doing it to our own owner as if 'cockney' is a derogatory term, if you think that's fine then that's fair enough, but you're a bit naive if you think that other people outside of the club don't believe the same (including players and managers and staff that we might want as some point) Why should I give a s*** if Southerners think that I, as a Geordie, hate them all on the basis of one song against one Southern c***? Even if they do make that assumption - more fool them. Their narrow-mindedness will be far worse than mine for singing that about one person. Quite frankly even if people don't like it when I'm abusive about one of their "own" then that's tough s***. I wouldn't be abusive if he wasn't a c***. Which he clearly is. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd totally expect Southerners to call their owner a Geordie c***, and I wouldn't think they hated all of us for that reason. You should give a s*** because for the last 4 years we've had a manager that was excused by the media, fans, pundits and possibly our own owner from being totally s*** because they assumed we didn't like him for being Southern. It's one of the reasons that he got away with being s*** for so long. And it's not their narrow-mindedness if you're calling someone a cockney ffs. It's yours. If someone called me a thick geordie c***, or any other slur I wouldn't think that it was my own narrow-mindedness for not realising that it was some sort of delightful banter, I'd think they were an ignorant dick, the same is true the other way around. Basically it blurs and undermines any real message from getting through because it's easy to look at it and think that people dislike them because of where they're from and I'm f***ing sick to back teeth of having to explain this to people who wonder why the media talk s*** about us on a regular basis and everything feeds into itself and nothing ever gets better. That bit is just utter s****. Sorry like, it just is. He was excused through his football friends in the media and generally lazy journalism and reporting. We had Hughton who was absolutely loved before him. You're totally missing my point. I'm not saying us singing that isn't narrow-minded. I'm saying them assuming all Geordies hate all Southerners from that one chant is even more narrow-minded. Pardew hardly ever got any grief for being a Cockney. He got grief for being a lying, inept, deceitful c***. Ashley however, is a different matter. It's not a particularly thoughtful chant, but then how many are? If you want them to be bellowed out then they need to be simple so that the masses can get involved. The North-East is one of the poorest regions in Britain so inevitably there will be some discontent towards London anyway. The poor reporting is the issue, the disregard for the actual facts. People know about the politics surrounding the local papers and the club so the rest get brandished Southern papers. Which probably isn't far from the truth. I just think this whole debate goes further than football. It's all about people's ideas about what is and isn't offensive and what is / isn't politically correct. I assume those of you kicking up a fuss about "cockney" probably have stronger links than most to the London area? Either that or totally left wing. Nah people just think it's a s*** chant. How can you not see the hypocrisy in it? You can't dig out southern media bias then insult someone based on them being a cockney. It's totally ridiculous I can dig out Southern media bias on the basis it is shit, non-factual, lazy reporting, not that it is Southern. If it is Southern based then that is geographically correct, and ultimately not a slur. Therefore, it is not hypocrisy. The Ashley chant I would agree, is somewhat hypocritical, and it is a shit chant. But it is offensive, and offensive towards him and him alone. So I couldn't really give a shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Slating people based on what region of the country they come from ffs. Why can't you lot just be like everyone else and hate people for valid reasons like race or sexual orientation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulivye Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Steve Wilkinson @SteveWilk19 A proud honour for Ashley: #nufc are first Premier League club to be knocked out of #FACup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "You person from London, we do not like you." Proper venomous that like. Him being from London has got NOTHING to do with it. I dunno how many times it has to brought up with you in particular, you just don't get it like. I do get it. Completely. It just doesn't f***ing matter like you seem to think it does. It matters from a public perception perspective. We'll always be seen as being unjustly harsh on people just because they're from Larndarn. It's not the end of the world, it's just another stick to beat us with, and another way for everyone to bang on about how unrealistic we are. I don't really give a s*** if Londoners think we hate London. We know we don't. Anyone with any sense knows we don't. If they think we do well tough s*** - more fool them for making a stereotype. Well you should give a s***, it puts us in a bad light and gives everyone another stick to beat us with. Just because other fans sing it to opposition players doesn't make it fine, we're doing it to our own owner as if 'cockney' is a derogatory term, if you think that's fine then that's fair enough, but you're a bit naive if you think that other people outside of the club don't believe the same (including players and managers and staff that we might want as some point) Why should I give a s*** if Southerners think that I, as a Geordie, hate them all on the basis of one song against one Southern c***? Even if they do make that assumption - more fool them. Their narrow-mindedness will be far worse than mine for singing that about one person. Quite frankly even if people don't like it when I'm abusive about one of their "own" then that's tough s***. I wouldn't be abusive if he wasn't a c***. Which he clearly is. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd totally expect Southerners to call their owner a Geordie c***, and I wouldn't think they hated all of us for that reason. You should give a s*** because for the last 4 years we've had a manager that was excused by the media, fans, pundits and possibly our own owner from being totally s*** because they assumed we didn't like him for being Southern. It's one of the reasons that he got away with being s*** for so long. And it's not their narrow-mindedness if you're calling someone a cockney ffs. It's yours. If someone called me a thick geordie c***, or any other slur I wouldn't think that it was my own narrow-mindedness for not realising that it was some sort of delightful banter, I'd think they were an ignorant dick, the same is true the other way around. Basically it blurs and undermines any real message from getting through because it's easy to look at it and think that people dislike them because of where they're from and I'm f***ing sick to back teeth of having to explain this to people who wonder why the media talk s*** about us on a regular basis and everything feeds into itself and nothing ever gets better. That bit is just utter s****. Sorry like, it just is. He was excused through his football friends in the media and generally lazy journalism and reporting. We had Hughton who was absolutely loved before him. You're totally missing my point. I'm not saying us singing that isn't narrow-minded. I'm saying them assuming all Geordies hate all Southerners from that one chant is even more narrow-minded. Pardew hardly ever got any grief for being a Cockney. He got grief for being a lying, inept, deceitful c***. Ashley however, is a different matter. It's not a particularly thoughtful chant, but then how many are? If you want them to be bellowed out then they need to be simple so that the masses can get involved. The North-East is one of the poorest regions in Britain so inevitably there will be some discontent towards London anyway. That's not to say it's right, but it probably contributes. He is a fat, rich, London twat. Therefore, if he is called a Cockney so be it. Regardless of how accurate it is. Frustrating it may be but surely the fat and bastard are the offensive parts. The poor reporting is the issue, the disregard for the actual facts. People know about the politics surrounding the local papers and the club so the rest get brandished Southern papers. Which probably isn't far from the truth. I just think this whole debate goes further than football. It's all about people's ideas about what is and isn't offensive and what is / isn't politically correct. I assume those of you kicking up a fuss about "cockney" probably have stronger links than most to the London area? Either that or totally left wing. Well it's not shit at all, it's everywhere you look/looked. Just today alone that was Paul Merson and Phil Thompsons assertion on us, that we won't accept a southerner, or a non-geordie. If you can't see that putting a word in between 'fat' and 'bastard' is meant to be seen as offensive then I dunno what to say to you, you're either being naive or you're talking shit. And yes, I know we loved Hughton, I make that point constantly and I've spent a great deal of time arguing against this idea that we don't like people from the south, only for our fans to use the word cockney as a slur. It's not at all narrow minded to hear 'you fat cockney bastard' and think 'they don't like cockneys'..not even in the slightest bit narrow-minded. If you don't have a problem with cockneys, don't use it as part of an insult. As has been brought up elsewhere, you wouldn't say 'you fat black bastard' and suggest that it's narrow minded for people to think that it means you don't like black people, of course it means that. Both have nothing to do with it. See, why are you saying that he's a fat, rich, london twat, it's so fucking embarrassing man. The North East being poor has NOTHING to do with it, it's about people being thick and hypocritical. 'Oh, don't tell us that we wanted Pardew out because he's a cockney, we loved Hughton and Lee and Ferdinand...YOU FAT COCKNEY BASTARD, GET OUT OF OUR CLUB...we don't hate Cockneys man, what are you on about!?' It's so undermining. As for the last paragraph, hang your head in shame mate. FWIW, I don't, I'm just a fucking human being and don't give a shit where people come from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "You person from London, we do not like you." Proper venomous that like. Him being from London has got NOTHING to do with it. I dunno how many times it has to brought up with you in particular, you just don't get it like. I do get it. Completely. It just doesn't f***ing matter like you seem to think it does. It matters from a public perception perspective. We'll always be seen as being unjustly harsh on people just because they're from Larndarn. It's not the end of the world, it's just another stick to beat us with, and another way for everyone to bang on about how unrealistic we are. I don't really give a s*** if Londoners think we hate London. We know we don't. Anyone with any sense knows we don't. If they think we do well tough s*** - more fool them for making a stereotype. Well you should give a s***, it puts us in a bad light and gives everyone another stick to beat us with. Just because other fans sing it to opposition players doesn't make it fine, we're doing it to our own owner as if 'cockney' is a derogatory term, if you think that's fine then that's fair enough, but you're a bit naive if you think that other people outside of the club don't believe the same (including players and managers and staff that we might want as some point) Why should I give a s*** if Southerners think that I, as a Geordie, hate them all on the basis of one song against one Southern c***? Even if they do make that assumption - more fool them. Their narrow-mindedness will be far worse than mine for singing that about one person. Quite frankly even if people don't like it when I'm abusive about one of their "own" then that's tough s***. I wouldn't be abusive if he wasn't a c***. Which he clearly is. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd totally expect Southerners to call their owner a Geordie c***, and I wouldn't think they hated all of us for that reason. You should give a s*** because for the last 4 years we've had a manager that was excused by the media, fans, pundits and possibly our own owner from being totally s*** because they assumed we didn't like him for being Southern. It's one of the reasons that he got away with being s*** for so long. And it's not their narrow-mindedness if you're calling someone a cockney ffs. It's yours. If someone called me a thick geordie c***, or any other slur I wouldn't think that it was my own narrow-mindedness for not realising that it was some sort of delightful banter, I'd think they were an ignorant dick, the same is true the other way around. Basically it blurs and undermines any real message from getting through because it's easy to look at it and think that people dislike them because of where they're from and I'm f***ing sick to back teeth of having to explain this to people who wonder why the media talk s*** about us on a regular basis and everything feeds into itself and nothing ever gets better. That bit is just utter s****. Sorry like, it just is. He was excused through his football friends in the media and generally lazy journalism and reporting. We had Hughton who was absolutely loved before him. You're totally missing my point. I'm not saying us singing that isn't narrow-minded. I'm saying them assuming all Geordies hate all Southerners from that one chant is even more narrow-minded. Pardew hardly ever got any grief for being a Cockney. He got grief for being a lying, inept, deceitful c***. Ashley however, is a different matter. It's not a particularly thoughtful chant, but then how many are? If you want them to be bellowed out then they need to be simple so that the masses can get involved. The North-East is one of the poorest regions in Britain so inevitably there will be some discontent towards London anyway. The poor reporting is the issue, the disregard for the actual facts. People know about the politics surrounding the local papers and the club so the rest get brandished Southern papers. Which probably isn't far from the truth. I just think this whole debate goes further than football. It's all about people's ideas about what is and isn't offensive and what is / isn't politically correct. I assume those of you kicking up a fuss about "cockney" probably have stronger links than most to the London area? Either that or totally left wing. Nah people just think it's a s*** chant. How can you not see the hypocrisy in it? You can't dig out southern media bias then insult someone based on them being a cockney. It's totally ridiculous I can dig out Southern media bias on the basis it is s***, non-factual, lazy reporting, not that it is Southern. If it is Southern based then that is geographically correct, and ultimately not a slur. Therefore, it is not hypocrisy. The Ashley chant I would agree, is somewhat hypocritical, and it is a s*** chant. But it is offensive, and offensive towards him and him alone. So I couldn't really give a s***. nah its castigating him on the basis of where is he from being a factor. It's stupidly hypocritical.All you are doing is reinforcing the stereotype that you claim the "southern" media have invented Not really, it's just describing him. The "bastard" thing is equally incorrect I'm sure but no-one is debating that. It's like being called a Cockney is worse than a fat bastard. The chant isn't well thought out, I'll give you's that. Nor is it a catchy song. The way you's go on about us calling Ashley a "Cockney" is just a little daft and sensitive for me though. Then again I'm sure I would disagree with you about racism and things like that though. FWIW that's not to say I'm a racist either - I just distinguish it differently to others. #CanOfWorms Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Right, what have ai missed? Apparently we were awful? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "You person from London, we do not like you." Proper venomous that like. Him being from London has got NOTHING to do with it. I dunno how many times it has to brought up with you in particular, you just don't get it like. I do get it. Completely. It just doesn't f***ing matter like you seem to think it does. It matters from a public perception perspective. We'll always be seen as being unjustly harsh on people just because they're from Larndarn. It's not the end of the world, it's just another stick to beat us with, and another way for everyone to bang on about how unrealistic we are. I don't really give a s*** if Londoners think we hate London. We know we don't. Anyone with any sense knows we don't. If they think we do well tough s*** - more fool them for making a stereotype. Well you should give a s***, it puts us in a bad light and gives everyone another stick to beat us with. Just because other fans sing it to opposition players doesn't make it fine, we're doing it to our own owner as if 'cockney' is a derogatory term, if you think that's fine then that's fair enough, but you're a bit naive if you think that other people outside of the club don't believe the same (including players and managers and staff that we might want as some point) Why should I give a s*** if Southerners think that I, as a Geordie, hate them all on the basis of one song against one Southern c***? Even if they do make that assumption - more fool them. Their narrow-mindedness will be far worse than mine for singing that about one person. Quite frankly even if people don't like it when I'm abusive about one of their "own" then that's tough s***. I wouldn't be abusive if he wasn't a c***. Which he clearly is. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd totally expect Southerners to call their owner a Geordie c***, and I wouldn't think they hated all of us for that reason. You should give a s*** because for the last 4 years we've had a manager that was excused by the media, fans, pundits and possibly our own owner from being totally s*** because they assumed we didn't like him for being Southern. It's one of the reasons that he got away with being s*** for so long. And it's not their narrow-mindedness if you're calling someone a cockney ffs. It's yours. If someone called me a thick geordie c***, or any other slur I wouldn't think that it was my own narrow-mindedness for not realising that it was some sort of delightful banter, I'd think they were an ignorant dick, the same is true the other way around. Basically it blurs and undermines any real message from getting through because it's easy to look at it and think that people dislike them because of where they're from and I'm f***ing sick to back teeth of having to explain this to people who wonder why the media talk s*** about us on a regular basis and everything feeds into itself and nothing ever gets better. That bit is just utter s****. Sorry like, it just is. He was excused through his football friends in the media and generally lazy journalism and reporting. We had Hughton who was absolutely loved before him. You're totally missing my point. I'm not saying us singing that isn't narrow-minded. I'm saying them assuming all Geordies hate all Southerners from that one chant is even more narrow-minded. Pardew hardly ever got any grief for being a Cockney. He got grief for being a lying, inept, deceitful c***. Ashley however, is a different matter. It's not a particularly thoughtful chant, but then how many are? If you want them to be bellowed out then they need to be simple so that the masses can get involved. The North-East is one of the poorest regions in Britain so inevitably there will be some discontent towards London anyway. The poor reporting is the issue, the disregard for the actual facts. People know about the politics surrounding the local papers and the club so the rest get brandished Southern papers. Which probably isn't far from the truth. I just think this whole debate goes further than football. It's all about people's ideas about what is and isn't offensive and what is / isn't politically correct. I assume those of you kicking up a fuss about "cockney" probably have stronger links than most to the London area? Either that or totally left wing. Nah people just think it's a s*** chant. How can you not see the hypocrisy in it? You can't dig out southern media bias then insult someone based on them being a cockney. It's totally ridiculous I can dig out Southern media bias on the basis it is shit, non-factual, lazy reporting, not that it is Southern. If it is Southern based then that is geographically correct, and ultimately not a slur. Therefore, it is not hypocrisy. The Ashley chant I would agree, is somewhat hypocritical, and it is a shit chant. But it is offensive, and offensive towards him and him alone. So I couldn't really give a shit. So if I we'd sang 'you black bastard' to Chris Hughton, it would have only been offensive to Chris Hughton? It's the same concept and it's being totally ignored. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemagpie Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Since when did 'Cockney' become a derogatory term anyway? It's derogatory when sandwiched between with 'fat' and 'b******'. Aye but at least one of those two things is true. Not sure if he's medically fat like. Medically fat. MEDICALLY. Aye, and black people are black, that's a fact. As Hans pointed out though it's a different context if it's sandwiched between 'fat' and 'b******' though, isn't it? Introduce race to try and take the moral high ground. Pathetic. I could introduce anything else mate, it's another example of something out of his control, that's the entire point. You put something in the middle of 'fat' and 'b******' and it's obviously meant as an insult, it shouldn't need to be explained. Of course its an insult and i have at no point suggested otherwise. We are in agreement on this at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "You person from London, we do not like you." Proper venomous that like. Him being from London has got NOTHING to do with it. I dunno how many times it has to brought up with you in particular, you just don't get it like. I do get it. Completely. It just doesn't f***ing matter like you seem to think it does. It matters from a public perception perspective. We'll always be seen as being unjustly harsh on people just because they're from Larndarn. It's not the end of the world, it's just another stick to beat us with, and another way for everyone to bang on about how unrealistic we are. I don't really give a s*** if Londoners think we hate London. We know we don't. Anyone with any sense knows we don't. If they think we do well tough s*** - more fool them for making a stereotype. Well you should give a s***, it puts us in a bad light and gives everyone another stick to beat us with. Just because other fans sing it to opposition players doesn't make it fine, we're doing it to our own owner as if 'cockney' is a derogatory term, if you think that's fine then that's fair enough, but you're a bit naive if you think that other people outside of the club don't believe the same (including players and managers and staff that we might want as some point) Why should I give a s*** if Southerners think that I, as a Geordie, hate them all on the basis of one song against one Southern c***? Even if they do make that assumption - more fool them. Their narrow-mindedness will be far worse than mine for singing that about one person. Quite frankly even if people don't like it when I'm abusive about one of their "own" then that's tough s***. I wouldn't be abusive if he wasn't a c***. Which he clearly is. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd totally expect Southerners to call their owner a Geordie c***, and I wouldn't think they hated all of us for that reason. You should give a s*** because for the last 4 years we've had a manager that was excused by the media, fans, pundits and possibly our own owner from being totally s*** because they assumed we didn't like him for being Southern. It's one of the reasons that he got away with being s*** for so long. And it's not their narrow-mindedness if you're calling someone a cockney ffs. It's yours. If someone called me a thick geordie c***, or any other slur I wouldn't think that it was my own narrow-mindedness for not realising that it was some sort of delightful banter, I'd think they were an ignorant dick, the same is true the other way around. Basically it blurs and undermines any real message from getting through because it's easy to look at it and think that people dislike them because of where they're from and I'm f***ing sick to back teeth of having to explain this to people who wonder why the media talk s*** about us on a regular basis and everything feeds into itself and nothing ever gets better. That bit is just utter s****. Sorry like, it just is. He was excused through his football friends in the media and generally lazy journalism and reporting. We had Hughton who was absolutely loved before him. You're totally missing my point. I'm not saying us singing that isn't narrow-minded. I'm saying them assuming all Geordies hate all Southerners from that one chant is even more narrow-minded. Pardew hardly ever got any grief for being a Cockney. He got grief for being a lying, inept, deceitful c***. Ashley however, is a different matter. It's not a particularly thoughtful chant, but then how many are? If you want them to be bellowed out then they need to be simple so that the masses can get involved. The North-East is one of the poorest regions in Britain so inevitably there will be some discontent towards London anyway. The poor reporting is the issue, the disregard for the actual facts. People know about the politics surrounding the local papers and the club so the rest get brandished Southern papers. Which probably isn't far from the truth. I just think this whole debate goes further than football. It's all about people's ideas about what is and isn't offensive and what is / isn't politically correct. I assume those of you kicking up a fuss about "cockney" probably have stronger links than most to the London area? Either that or totally left wing. Nah people just think it's a s*** chant. How can you not see the hypocrisy in it? You can't dig out southern media bias then insult someone based on them being a cockney. It's totally ridiculous I can dig out Southern media bias on the basis it is s***, non-factual, lazy reporting, not that it is Southern. If it is Southern based then that is geographically correct, and ultimately not a slur. Therefore, it is not hypocrisy. The Ashley chant I would agree, is somewhat hypocritical, and it is a s*** chant. But it is offensive, and offensive towards him and him alone. So I couldn't really give a s***. nah its castigating him on the basis of where is he from being a factor. It's stupidly hypocritical.All you are doing is reinforcing the stereotype that you claim the "southern" media have invented Not really, it's just describing him. The "bastard" thing is equally incorrect I'm sure but no-one is debating that. It's like being called a Cockney is worse than a fat bastard. The chant isn't well thought out, I'll give you's that. Nor is it a catchy song. The way you's go on about us calling Ashley a "Cockney" is just a little daft and sensitive for me though. Then again I'm sure I would disagree with you about racism and things like that though. FWIW that's not to say I'm a racist either - I just distinguish it differently to others. #CanOfWorms He has done things towards NUFC fans and people connected with NUFC that are quite mean. Bastard is an apt description coming from us towards this person. Him being from London is just him being from London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "You person from London, we do not like you." Proper venomous that like. Him being from London has got NOTHING to do with it. I dunno how many times it has to brought up with you in particular, you just don't get it like. I do get it. Completely. It just doesn't f***ing matter like you seem to think it does. It matters from a public perception perspective. We'll always be seen as being unjustly harsh on people just because they're from Larndarn. It's not the end of the world, it's just another stick to beat us with, and another way for everyone to bang on about how unrealistic we are. I don't really give a s*** if Londoners think we hate London. We know we don't. Anyone with any sense knows we don't. If they think we do well tough s*** - more fool them for making a stereotype. Well you should give a s***, it puts us in a bad light and gives everyone another stick to beat us with. Just because other fans sing it to opposition players doesn't make it fine, we're doing it to our own owner as if 'cockney' is a derogatory term, if you think that's fine then that's fair enough, but you're a bit naive if you think that other people outside of the club don't believe the same (including players and managers and staff that we might want as some point) Why should I give a s*** if Southerners think that I, as a Geordie, hate them all on the basis of one song against one Southern c***? Even if they do make that assumption - more fool them. Their narrow-mindedness will be far worse than mine for singing that about one person. Quite frankly even if people don't like it when I'm abusive about one of their "own" then that's tough s***. I wouldn't be abusive if he wasn't a c***. Which he clearly is. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd totally expect Southerners to call their owner a Geordie c***, and I wouldn't think they hated all of us for that reason. You should give a s*** because for the last 4 years we've had a manager that was excused by the media, fans, pundits and possibly our own owner from being totally s*** because they assumed we didn't like him for being Southern. It's one of the reasons that he got away with being s*** for so long. And it's not their narrow-mindedness if you're calling someone a cockney ffs. It's yours. If someone called me a thick geordie c***, or any other slur I wouldn't think that it was my own narrow-mindedness for not realising that it was some sort of delightful banter, I'd think they were an ignorant dick, the same is true the other way around. Basically it blurs and undermines any real message from getting through because it's easy to look at it and think that people dislike them because of where they're from and I'm f***ing sick to back teeth of having to explain this to people who wonder why the media talk s*** about us on a regular basis and everything feeds into itself and nothing ever gets better. That bit is just utter s****. Sorry like, it just is. He was excused through his football friends in the media and generally lazy journalism and reporting. We had Hughton who was absolutely loved before him. You're totally missing my point. I'm not saying us singing that isn't narrow-minded. I'm saying them assuming all Geordies hate all Southerners from that one chant is even more narrow-minded. Pardew hardly ever got any grief for being a Cockney. He got grief for being a lying, inept, deceitful c***. Ashley however, is a different matter. It's not a particularly thoughtful chant, but then how many are? If you want them to be bellowed out then they need to be simple so that the masses can get involved. The North-East is one of the poorest regions in Britain so inevitably there will be some discontent towards London anyway. That's not to say it's right, but it probably contributes. He is a fat, rich, London t***. Therefore, if he is called a Cockney so be it. Regardless of how accurate it is. Frustrating it may be but surely the fat and b****** are the offensive parts. The poor reporting is the issue, the disregard for the actual facts. People know about the politics surrounding the local papers and the club so the rest get brandished Southern papers. Which probably isn't far from the truth. I just think this whole debate goes further than football. It's all about people's ideas about what is and isn't offensive and what is / isn't politically correct. I assume those of you kicking up a fuss about "cockney" probably have stronger links than most to the London area? Either that or totally left wing. Well it's not s*** at all, it's everywhere you look/looked. Just today alone that was Paul Merson and Phil Thompsons assertion on us, that we won't accept a southerner, or a non-geordie. If you can't see that putting a word in between 'fat' and 'b******' is meant to be seen as offensive then I dunno what to say to you, you're either being naive or you're talking s***. And yes, I know we loved Hughton, I make that point constantly and I've spent a great deal of time arguing against this idea that we don't like people from the south, only for our fans to use the word cockney as a slur. It's not at all narrow minded to hear 'you fat cockney b******' and think 'they don't like cockneys'..not even in the slightest bit narrow-minded. If you don't have a problem with cockneys, don't use it as part of an insult. As has been brought up elsewhere, you wouldn't say 'you fat black b******' and suggest that it's narrow minded for people to think that it means you don't like black people, of course it means that. Both have nothing to do with it. See, why are you saying that he's a fat, rich, london t***, it's so f***ing embarrassing man. The North East being poor has NOTHING to do with it, it's about people being thick and hypocritical. Oh, don't tell us that we wanted Pardew out because he's a cockney, we loved Hughton and Lee and Ferdinand...YOU FAT COCKNEY b******, GET OUT OF OUR CLUB...we don't hate Cockneys man, what are you on about!? It's so undermining. As for the last paragraph, hang your head in shame mate. FWIW, I don't, I'm just a f***ing human being and don't give a s*** where people come from. I don't give a shit where people come from. I just don't see why people see it as any more offensive than being called, tall, short, fat, thin, blonde or ginger but that all seems to not matter. When it comes to region or race it gets blown out of proportion and this whole Cockney rant is a fine example of that. It seems history only matters when it suits certain people or groups of people. Cannot be arsed to debate this with you - we obviously aren't changing each others opinions at all. So I'm leaving it at that. As mentioned in my previous post, that's not to say I advocate racism or owt like that, I just draw the PC line a little bit differently to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Stupid thing is that he's not even from London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Since when did 'Cockney' become a derogatory term anyway? Since when did 'Cockney' become a derogatory term anyway? It's derogatory when sandwiched between with 'fat' and 'b******'. Aye but at least one of those two things is true. Not sure if he's medically fat like. Medically fat. MEDICALLY. Aye, and black people are black, that's a fact. As Hans pointed out though it's a different context if it's sandwiched between 'fat' and 'b******' though, isn't it? Introduce race to try and take the moral high ground. Pathetic. I could introduce anything else mate, it's another example of something out of his control, that's the entire point. You put something in the middle of 'fat' and 'b******' and it's obviously meant as an insult, it shouldn't need to be explained. Of course its an insult and i have at no point suggested otherwise. We are in agreement on this at least. So you're asking how Cockney is a derogatory term, but then you also see that it's an insult? Whaaa? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I hope to fucking god everyone's a few bottles deep here like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Stupid thing is that he's not even from London. I believe he is distantly related to me via my paternal grandmothers side: from Northumberland Ashley's... Not sure of his direct birthplace etc though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 We lose 1-0 in the cup and subsequently argue about political correctness. Woops. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I hope to fucking god everyone's a few bottles deep here like I've had nowt, you fat affable bastard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 It's got nothing to do with political correctness man, it just makes us look thick. The PC side is just to explain why the word is derogatory although that was obvious anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Aye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 "You person from London, we do not like you." Proper venomous that like. Him being from London has got NOTHING to do with it. I dunno how many times it has to brought up with you in particular, you just don't get it like. I do get it. Completely. It just doesn't f***ing matter like you seem to think it does. It matters from a public perception perspective. We'll always be seen as being unjustly harsh on people just because they're from Larndarn. It's not the end of the world, it's just another stick to beat us with, and another way for everyone to bang on about how unrealistic we are. I don't really give a s*** if Londoners think we hate London. We know we don't. Anyone with any sense knows we don't. If they think we do well tough s*** - more fool them for making a stereotype. Well you should give a s***, it puts us in a bad light and gives everyone another stick to beat us with. Just because other fans sing it to opposition players doesn't make it fine, we're doing it to our own owner as if 'cockney' is a derogatory term, if you think that's fine then that's fair enough, but you're a bit naive if you think that other people outside of the club don't believe the same (including players and managers and staff that we might want as some point) Why should I give a s*** if Southerners think that I, as a Geordie, hate them all on the basis of one song against one Southern c***? Even if they do make that assumption - more fool them. Their narrow-mindedness will be far worse than mine for singing that about one person. Quite frankly even if people don't like it when I'm abusive about one of their "own" then that's tough s***. I wouldn't be abusive if he wasn't a c***. Which he clearly is. If the shoe was on the other foot I'd totally expect Southerners to call their owner a Geordie c***, and I wouldn't think they hated all of us for that reason. You should give a s*** because for the last 4 years we've had a manager that was excused by the media, fans, pundits and possibly our own owner from being totally s*** because they assumed we didn't like him for being Southern. It's one of the reasons that he got away with being s*** for so long. And it's not their narrow-mindedness if you're calling someone a cockney ffs. It's yours. If someone called me a thick geordie c***, or any other slur I wouldn't think that it was my own narrow-mindedness for not realising that it was some sort of delightful banter, I'd think they were an ignorant dick, the same is true the other way around. Basically it blurs and undermines any real message from getting through because it's easy to look at it and think that people dislike them because of where they're from and I'm f***ing sick to back teeth of having to explain this to people who wonder why the media talk s*** about us on a regular basis and everything feeds into itself and nothing ever gets better. That bit is just utter s****. Sorry like, it just is. He was excused through his football friends in the media and generally lazy journalism and reporting. We had Hughton who was absolutely loved before him. You're totally missing my point. I'm not saying us singing that isn't narrow-minded. I'm saying them assuming all Geordies hate all Southerners from that one chant is even more narrow-minded. Pardew hardly ever got any grief for being a Cockney. He got grief for being a lying, inept, deceitful c***. Ashley however, is a different matter. It's not a particularly thoughtful chant, but then how many are? If you want them to be bellowed out then they need to be simple so that the masses can get involved. The North-East is one of the poorest regions in Britain so inevitably there will be some discontent towards London anyway. That's not to say it's right, but it probably contributes. He is a fat, rich, London t***. Therefore, if he is called a Cockney so be it. Regardless of how accurate it is. Frustrating it may be but surely the fat and b****** are the offensive parts. The poor reporting is the issue, the disregard for the actual facts. People know about the politics surrounding the local papers and the club so the rest get brandished Southern papers. Which probably isn't far from the truth. I just think this whole debate goes further than football. It's all about people's ideas about what is and isn't offensive and what is / isn't politically correct. I assume those of you kicking up a fuss about "cockney" probably have stronger links than most to the London area? Either that or totally left wing. Well it's not s*** at all, it's everywhere you look/looked. Just today alone that was Paul Merson and Phil Thompsons assertion on us, that we won't accept a southerner, or a non-geordie. If you can't see that putting a word in between 'fat' and 'b******' is meant to be seen as offensive then I dunno what to say to you, you're either being naive or you're talking s***. And yes, I know we loved Hughton, I make that point constantly and I've spent a great deal of time arguing against this idea that we don't like people from the south, only for our fans to use the word cockney as a slur. It's not at all narrow minded to hear 'you fat cockney b******' and think 'they don't like cockneys'..not even in the slightest bit narrow-minded. If you don't have a problem with cockneys, don't use it as part of an insult. As has been brought up elsewhere, you wouldn't say 'you fat black b******' and suggest that it's narrow minded for people to think that it means you don't like black people, of course it means that. Both have nothing to do with it. See, why are you saying that he's a fat, rich, london t***, it's so f***ing embarrassing man. The North East being poor has NOTHING to do with it, it's about people being thick and hypocritical. Oh, don't tell us that we wanted Pardew out because he's a cockney, we loved Hughton and Lee and Ferdinand...YOU FAT COCKNEY b******, GET OUT OF OUR CLUB...we don't hate Cockneys man, what are you on about!? It's so undermining. As for the last paragraph, hang your head in shame mate. FWIW, I don't, I'm just a f***ing human being and don't give a s*** where people come from. I don't give a shit where people come from. I just don't see why people see it as any more offensive than being called, tall, short, fat, thin, blonde or ginger but that all seems to not matter. When it comes to region or race it gets blown out of proportion and this whole Cockney rant is a fine example of that. It seems history only matters when it suits certain people or groups of people. Cannot be arsed to debate this with you - we obviously aren't changing each others opinions at all. So I'm leaving it at that. As mentioned in my previous post, that's not to say I advocate racism or owt like that, I just draw the PC line a little bit differently to you. The difference being that regional differences and conflicts, beit locally, nationally or internationally are a real thing, as are issues with race, gender, sexual preference. As far as I'm aware, there's no ongoing problem between blondes, gingers, tall people, short people, fat people and skinny people. Yet a geographical difference seems to be relevant enough to be a chant but to also be put forward as a legitimate reason for disliking someone. I'm yet to hear anyone suggest that we wanted Pardew out because he's grey, or old, or average height. Yet I've heard it time and time again about him being Southern. I wonder why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I do believe I'm quite trim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I hope to fucking god everyone's a few bottles deep here like I've had nowt, you fat affable bastard. Fuck off short arse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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