Are you now completely finished with NUFC?

[BottledDog]

I've not read any of the previous posts in this thread, so apologies if this is not in line with the current chat.

 

The subject of this thread is ridiculous, if our current situation deters you from supporting our club - good riddance.

You should support the club; the owners, managers, staff and players all change (sometimes on a very regular basis) - but you should still stand/sit there for 90 minutes supporting the club.

 

If you are happy to walk away because we have an owner you don't like at the minute, or a player you dislike, then it's a "cya" from me.

 

No doubt many will disagree, but that's my personal feelings on the matter.

 

Hooray - the voice of reason.

 

Honestly, the utter negativity on this board worries me. Posters wanting us to get relegated? Like the WTF. No deal at all.

How is it possible to be this f***ing thick? You want to stay in the PL achieving nothing whatsoever for the next 30 years?

 

We'll lets get relegated then - it will fix all of our problems in a heartbeat.

 

No one's said that and continuing to frame the issue in such a way is ridiculous. If you accept that Ashley's primary, almost sole motivation as NUFC owner is profit maximization (because that should be clear to everyone by this point), it logically follows that he would have less interest in holding on to a club that's failing to earn him money. Relegation would undoubtedly put a major dent in his pocketbook: the disparity in wealth between the PL and Championship is ridiculous.

 

Of course it could backfire and we could "do a Leeds" (which is really not a legitimate reason to be worried about relegation considering the completely different circumstances surrounding Leeds and today's Newcastle). But holding fast where we are, ambition-less and content to simply exist as a PL team and nothing more, is clearly not ever going to force Ashley to reconsider his ownership of the club.

 

Can't speak for others, but I have trouble accepting that tbh.

 

The only thing I feel I know about Ashley is that he will categorically not be putting any more of his own money into the club and has been running it solely on that aim since his first year (not even sure he gives a toss about the piddling profits we now make).

 

Getting relegated won't hurt him much personally or in the pocket, it'll just knock the club back into more cost cutting.

 

:lol: nah he;s not in it for the profits man

 

BottledDog's always been banging the same drum, he's just understandably piped down with it a bit as things have progressed.

 

What's progressed?

 

I've piped down for the same reason as most. Even more dogshit football post Pardew, and sod all to get excited about since January. Ah, and sod all to get excited about in the future unless Charnley suddenly becomes competent and starts running the club with some passion and ambition for success on the pitch (an alien concept to him so far as I can see).

 

Just not a fan of people being called fucking thick for being against relegation is all.

 

 

[ianovthetoon]

Thing is at this minute in time "doing a Leeds/Portsmouth/Southampton" might not be a bad thing for the long term future of the club. Yeah it will be humiliating and embarrassing etc but it would rid the club I believe of Ashley et all as we couldn't go that way under him because of his wealth I guess.

 

The alternatives such as setting up a rival club might seem ridiculous might even be worth exploring and build up over the next 20 years or so as a credible alternative.

 

I've not used my season ticket much at all this year as its not enjoyable any more. There's people there that take their kids to soak up the atmosphere and see us pit our wits against the likes of Man United who couldn't care a less that we lose because its to be expected. I don't think we have a god given right to success but a team that was remotely interested trying and a little bit of ambition wouldn't go a miss. We don't have an identity or purpose anymore, we are simply there to promote the tat emporium and remain members of an exclusive club which provides rich rewards to it's members through TV revenues.....

 

I'd rather we had a team of cloggers in the conference who wanted to do their best....

[Interpolic]

I've not read any of the previous posts in this thread, so apologies if this is not in line with the current chat.

 

The subject of this thread is ridiculous, if our current situation deters you from supporting our club - good riddance.

You should support the club; the owners, managers, staff and players all change (sometimes on a very regular basis) - but you should still stand/sit there for 90 minutes supporting the club.

 

If you are happy to walk away because we have an owner you don't like at the minute, or a player you dislike, then it's a "cya" from me.

 

No doubt many will disagree, but that's my personal feelings on the matter.

 

Hooray - the voice of reason.

 

Honestly, the utter negativity on this board worries me. Posters wanting us to get relegated? Like the WTF. No deal at all.

How is it possible to be this f***ing thick? You want to stay in the PL achieving nothing whatsoever for the next 30 years?

 

We'll lets get relegated then - it will fix all of our problems in a heartbeat.

 

No one's said that and continuing to frame the issue in such a way is ridiculous. If you accept that Ashley's primary, almost sole motivation as NUFC owner is profit maximization (because that should be clear to everyone by this point), it logically follows that he would have less interest in holding on to a club that's failing to earn him money. Relegation would undoubtedly put a major dent in his pocketbook: the disparity in wealth between the PL and Championship is ridiculous.

 

Of course it could backfire and we could "do a Leeds" (which is really not a legitimate reason to be worried about relegation considering the completely different circumstances surrounding Leeds and today's Newcastle). But holding fast where we are, ambition-less and content to simply exist as a PL team and nothing more, is clearly not ever going to force Ashley to reconsider his ownership of the club.

 

Can't speak for others, but I have trouble accepting that tbh.

 

The only thing I feel I know about Ashley is that he will categorically not be putting any more of his own money into the club and has been running it solely on that aim since his first year (not even sure he gives a toss about the piddling profits we now make).

 

Getting relegated won't hurt him much personally or in the pocket, it'll just knock the club back into more cost cutting.

 

:lol: nah he;s not in it for the profits man

 

BottledDog's always been banging the same drum, he's just understandably piped down with it a bit as things have progressed.

 

What's progressed?

 

I've piped down for the same reason as most. Even more dogshit football post Pardew, and sod all to get excited about since January. Ah, and sod all to get excited about in the future unless Charnley suddenly becomes competent and starts running the club with some passion and ambition for success on the pitch (an alien concept to him so far as I can see).

 

Just not a fan of people being called fucking thick for being against relegation is all.

 

 

 

IIRC you were one of the biggest Ashley fans going, followed by one of the biggest Pardew fans going, for longer than the vast majority.

 

Fizzled out eventually, but you still see the odd similar comment from you in the interest of "balance".

 

FWIW I agree someone shouldn't be called fucking thick for that alone, the relegation idea is down to personal taste.  It's the stuff that always comes with the counter-arguments, "Support the team or fuck off and support someone else if you want us to get relegated" and that type of thing, which is annoying and short-sighted.

[Mr. Snrub]

Fwiw, I've watched 3 matches this season, both derbies and home to Man Utd.

 

The 2 clubs I hate most in the league and it cost me over £300 and made me finally realise my love for this club is completely dead.

 

Remember the days of going into school being proud as punch being a Newcastle fan, the underdog, we didn't win anything but so fucking what.  We were the team that everyone had an eye on besides their own.  From just getting promoted to being the club everyone liked and wanted us to pip Man Utd for the league.  Then on to Sir Bobby's team that everyone loved to watch, we were the entertainers again.  Leeds, Feyenoord away etc were the best times I've had supporting and now all we are is a side project for Sports Direct.  A way of making a fat Tottenham supporting cunt get even richer whilst shitting on one of the most genuine, likeable clubs since the PL started.  And unfortunately for every 40k that walk away, their will be another 40k growing up not realising what has happened to this club and will still buy tickets.,

 

Now we're the club everyone loves to hate.  Just a shame they don't realise NUFC is no longer a football club, it's solely a business.  A business that I want nothing more to do with. 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Fwiw, I've watched 3 matches this season, both derbies and home to Man Utd.

 

The 2 clubs I hate most in the league and it cost me over £300 and made me finally realise my love for this club is completely dead.

 

Remember the days of going into school being proud as punch being a Newcastle fan, the underdog, we didn't win anything but so fucking what.  We were the team that everyone had an eye on besides their own.  From just getting promoted to being the club everyone liked and wanted us to pip Man Utd for the league.  Then on to Sir Bobby's team that everyone loved to watch, we were the entertainers again.  Leeds, Feyenoord away etc were the best times I've had supporting and now all we are is a side project for Sports Direct.  A way of making a fat Tottenham supporting cunt get even richer whilst shitting on one of the most genuine, likeable clubs since the PL started.  And unfortunately for every 40k that walk away, their will be another 40k growing up not realising what has happened to this club and will still buy tickets.,

 

Now we're the club everyone loves to hate.  Just a shame they don't realise NUFC is no longer a football club, it's solely a business.  A business that I want nothing more to do with. 

 

 

there's a point in here mind, football is just a product to a lot of attendees at our game these days, like having to have the latest iPhone or whatever so as long as football itself stays "cool" whenever one person fucks off after 4 years of pardewball there will be another dummy along happy enough to spend his money in order to see rooney or whoever pelt in goals past us once a season

[El Hozzo]

I'll never be completely finished... I watched Sundays game live on Sky, and will probably do the same with the Liverpool game next Monday ... living in Italy, I don't get to see a game in the stadium often (once this season) ... I think about not investing my time to watch us limp to another defeat, with shocking line ups -  the back four on sunday, disgraceful to have only one of the four playing in his position - and he should be third or fourth choice at best : and Raylor and Jonas, as much as I applaud them of overcoming their personal issues/injuries, should not be near our starting 11 in 2015) ... but I just can't seem to jack it in completely...

 

I would say, since my first time seeing us live, in 1989, I have never felt as less interested, bothered in results as I do now ...  certainly would not dream of shelling out for DVDs, Mugs, shirts etc like in the past ...

[Guest alijmitchell]

You know what, apart from getting rid of Ashley, getting relegated 10 times, doing a Leeds or Portsmouth might have the added advantage of loads of utter twat fans deserting. I hate so many of them, clueless fucking thick tossers who blindly follow this pigshit. The club needs fucking destroying.

[Kanj]

I'd take a massive fall down the league if it meant we had genuine people who actually cared about the club, the region, it's people, and the fans. Shame on those who show up and don't have any ounce of pride or foresight to see they are being led off a cliff with this clown owning and his cronies running the club. They should be so lucky that they have 50,000 supporters who flock to see these games and the sick fucks get their jollies off lieing and misleading the everyday fan. It's gut wrenching man.

[Guest alijmitchell]

A club that the region can be proud of, that is connected to the community, that is open and transparent. Fuck it, maybe  that needs to just be set up instead of nufc

[Andymc1]

A club that the region can be proud of, that is connected to the community, that is open and transparent. f*** it, maybe  that needs to just be set up instead of nufc

 

http://www.gateshead-fc.com/

[Guest alijmitchell]

True, when I'm next down I might just go to a Gateshead game instead.

[Swissmag]

not yet completely...but the nearest possible

[Turnbull2000]

Never completely, but I have seemingly lost interest in watching any Prem match on TV, never mind NUFC. Haven't sat through an entire game in months.

[polpolpol]

I've not read any of the previous posts in this thread, so apologies if this is not in line with the current chat.

 

The subject of this thread is ridiculous, if our current situation deters you from supporting our club - good riddance.

You should support the club; the owners, managers, staff and players all change (sometimes on a very regular basis) - but you should still stand/sit there for 90 minutes supporting the club.

 

If you are happy to walk away because we have an owner you don't like at the minute, or a player you dislike, then it's a "cya" from me.

 

No doubt many will disagree, but that's my personal feelings on the matter.

 

Hooray - the voice of reason.

 

Honestly, the utter negativity on this board worries me. Posters wanting us to get relegated? Like the WTF. No deal at all.

How is it possible to be this f***ing thick? You want to stay in the PL achieving nothing whatsoever for the next 30 years?

 

We'll lets get relegated then - it will fix all of our problems in a heartbeat.

 

No one's said that and continuing to frame the issue in such a way is ridiculous. If you accept that Ashley's primary, almost sole motivation as NUFC owner is profit maximization (because that should be clear to everyone by this point), it logically follows that he would have less interest in holding on to a club that's failing to earn him money. Relegation would undoubtedly put a major dent in his pocketbook: the disparity in wealth between the PL and Championship is ridiculous.

 

Of course it could backfire and we could "do a Leeds" (which is really not a legitimate reason to be worried about relegation considering the completely different circumstances surrounding Leeds and today's Newcastle). But holding fast where we are, ambition-less and content to simply exist as a PL team and nothing more, is clearly not ever going to force Ashley to reconsider his ownership of the club.

 

Can't speak for others, but I have trouble accepting that tbh.

 

The only thing I feel I know about Ashley is that he will categorically not be putting any more of his own money into the club and has been running it solely on that aim since his first year (not even sure he gives a toss about the piddling profits we now make).

 

Getting relegated won't hurt him much personally or in the pocket, it'll just knock the club back into more cost cutting.

 

If he's not motivated by maximizing profit and he's not motivated by competing, why the hell does he even bother owning the club? Why the hell would anyone bother owning a football club if not for one of those reasons?

 

He bought it for fun. Fun stopped.

 

As long as it doesn't cost him anything (which it wont bar a potential sale value drop), and nobody is willing to take it off his hands, he can just sit back and use it to flog SD for nothing.

 

I'm more hopeful that he starts getting some enjoyment from it again than I am of him getting upset by things like relegation hurting paltry profits and fucking off. And that hope is negligible at best.

 

 

This is the nut, what does Ashley want with the club? If it isn't for fun anymore, why is he attending the games? He's a billionaire, it is not as if he only goes because he bought the season ticket and doesn't want to waste it - Jesus, the mind boggles at all the things you could do on a Saturday afternoon with unlimited cash that would be better than watching turgid football – it's clearly time that is his limited resource, not money... so, why spend it to go and watch a business break even?

 

Here are three things which I'm pretty sure are true about Ashley (though I don't have the inclination to dig out the exact quotes):

 

1. Ashley loves football, and is long-time fan of the game. He thinks he is something of an expert. (I think this came up when he bought the club)

 

2. Ashley loves to apply an insurgent business model, and has a history of doing things his own way rather than following industry conventions.

 

3. Ashley has a fairly active role in the club. He likes to get involved behind the scenes. (I think this came up around the time of Houghton's sacking).

 

Take these three things and his frequent attendance at the games, which shows a libidinal investment in the club, and it becomes clear that he's basically playing Football-Manger-at-a-distance.

 

However, what he's done is come up within his own rules of the game, so he no longer has the same objectives (winning things) that most people would have. Instead, the 'fun' he gets from the club operating/remaining within three parameters:

 

Don't invest/lose any money

Don't get relegated

Don't do things according to the 'old boys rules'

 

None of these limit conditions can really be surpassed by traditional forms of protest – the TV money takes away the fiscal levers, waiting for relegation isn't a strategy, and the third, highlighting his operating against convention, this is the most dangerous. Why? Because opposition and conflict acts as a intensifier for Ashley; what gets him hard is the idea that he's doing it his way and winning (according to his criteria), in this case despite the fans, or the experts in the press or in 'the game' saying he's wrong, that he needs to go to a traditional model.

 

This leaves quite a tricky problem because beyond the fact that he can't be forced out, the harder people push in a certain direction, the more fun it is for him: laughing at the bedsheets and the hysterical fans; the horse-punching plebs; all of the ex-pros saying it isn't done like that; journalists up in loquacious arms about an institution whose spirit ebbs away.

 

His libidinal position is that he is still playing 'the game' of running the club and loving it, just at a distance from the city. What needs to be done is to break that spell and to at least make it boring for him, and to preferably make it embarrassing for him.

 

[1] Maxim: Ashley = Mediocrity. His regime isn't the end of the world, its just pathetic. A really bad attempt. Liken him to a little boy playing with toy soldiers and pretending he's a great general. Infantilise his neediness.

 

[2] Strip away all pretence that Ashley isn't direct responsible for all decisions made at the club. Attribute agency to him regarding everything that happens. Not to lay blame with Carver, the players, Lee Charnley . . . none of the placeholders he's appointed. Every failure, every defeat is finally his fault, and to ridicule him because of it.

 

[3] Change the dynamic from Fans Vs Ashley to Fans exposing Ashley. Don't pull the other end of the rope and make it a contest, just see him for what he is. A wierdo running a mediocre football club as a strange ego-trip. Laugh at him, shame him, emphasis the shabbiness of the whole set-up.

 

 

Tl;dr: Pathos: Ashley as a figure of fun rather than a Machiavellian mastermind.

 

[Guest Mako]

Spot on. Beggars belief that anyone thought targeting Pardew made any sense at all, even if the campaign had been a complete success and he'd completely exposed as a bad manager and instantly sacked without casting the fans as fickle, mean or just horribly mistaken, which as we know didn't happen.

 

It would go a hell of a long way for change if all the fans screaming that Ashley has 'destroyed' our club and is about to shove us 'off the cliff' would actually get in line with the more saner observers, those of us who have recognised the issue is that he has not 'destroyed it', he has simply made it a miserable and hopeless experience. You destroy a club, it ceases to exist. And they need to accept that the major threat to NUFC is not that he might end up getting us relegated, it's that with this model he actually has a very good chance of making this the situation normal for years to come - for as long as he wants basically.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Aye, I just want you to fuck off now tbh, you're getting on my wick.

[Darth Crooks]

Words fail me.

[TRon]

Spot on. Beggars belief that anyone thought targeting Pardew made any sense at all

 

How did it not make sense? The obnoxious cunt has gone hasn't he? You can follow his adventures at Palace if you really feel deprived.

[Guest Mako]

Spot on. Beggars belief that anyone thought targeting Pardew made any sense at all

 

How did it not make sense? The obnoxious c*** has gone hasn't he? You can follow his adventures at Palace if you really feel deprived.

 

How did it not make sense? Well, to rehash previous posts - it gave us an even worse manager (something which was entirely predictable don't forget), it deflected attention away from Ashley, it made Pardew actually look good and/or victimised, it produced the ridiculous Carver-fans bust-up, and, whisper it quietly because it's aggravating some people to hear this: because of the specific way it went about its aims, it reinforced the stereotype that NUFC fans are fickle and will turn on a manager as soon as they're not pushing for European glory - obviously I shall now have to apply the obligatory disclaimer here that me saying that is in no way an accusation that the fans or the campaign were being fickle. I know they weren't, you know they weren't, but if you want to know why I think SackPardew didn't make sense, I can't answer that question without saying it.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Bloke's absolutely nuts.

 

Banging on about how it makes us look fickle, but it's okay, because he doesn't think we are, but other people do, and that's important for some reason.

 

Apparently Ashley is the main problem...yet now they've turned their attention to Ashley, he doesn't support their 'strategy'...despite him both not giving credit to SP for Pardew leaving...whilst also blaming them for Pardew leaving.

 

Utter heed the bahl.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

Spot on. Beggars belief that anyone thought targeting Pardew made any sense at all, even if the campaign had been a complete success and he'd completely exposed as a bad manager and instantly sacked without casting the fans as fickle, mean or just horribly mistaken, which as we know didn't happen.

 

It would go a hell of a long way for change if all the fans screaming that Ashley has 'destroyed' our club and is about to shove us 'off the cliff' would actually get in line with the more saner observers, those of us who have recognised the issue is that he has not 'destroyed it', he has simply made it a miserable and hopeless experience. You destroy a club, it ceases to exist. And they need to accept that the major threat to NUFC is not that he might end up getting us relegated, it's that with this model he actually has a very good chance of making this the situation normal for years to come - for as long as he wants basically.

 

Completely pointless distinction to draw. Honestly man.

 

[Guest Bert Shaft]

 

Spot on. Beggars belief that anyone thought targeting Pardew made any sense at all

 

You might have found it acceptable to be talked down to by Ashley's puppet, Pardew but I didn't.

 

Being told that we couldn't compete with the giant clubs like Norwich, Swansea and Southampton in the transfer market, being told " thank god we aren't in Europe", listening to him grovel to fatty every time he was allowed to buy 1 million superstars, the record number of 3 or more goal twattings we endured during his spell as manager not to mention the horrendous runs of form that were

commonplace as time progressed, not to mention the number of lies and contradictions Pardew came out with, these things p!us plenty of other things made the obnoxious Pardew fair game for criticism.

[Beren]

This dude is impressively incoherent.

[Guest Mako]

Spot on. Beggars belief that anyone thought targeting Pardew made any sense at all

 

How did it not make sense? The obnoxious c*** has gone hasn't he? You can follow his adventures at Palace if you really feel deprived.

 

How did it not make sense? Well, to rehash previous posts - it gave us an even worse manager (something which was entirely predictable don't forget), it deflected attention away from Ashley, it made Pardew actually look good and/or victimised, it produced the ridiculous Carver-fans bust-up, and, whisper it quietly because it's aggravating some people to hear this: because of the specific way it went about its aims, it reinforced the stereotype that NUFC fans are fickle and will turn on a manager as soon as they're not pushing for European glory - obviously I shall now have to apply the obligatory disclaimer here that me saying that is in no way an accusation that the fans or the campaign were being fickle. I know they weren't, you know they weren't, but if you want to know why I think SackPardew didn't make sense, I can't answer that question without saying it.

 

You're weirdly obsessed with SP

 

Nope. People just keep bringing it up, because they can't/won't accept what I had to say about the campaign in the one and only substantive post I made about it (in the AshleyOut thread I think). All that's happened since then is me having to keep justifying it, because the critics seem to have a hard time taking my views at face value, and want to insist I have no right to think these thoughts because they're not acceptable, and/or not proven by the facts. Prolonging the issue is this habit of people claiming I said things I patently didn't, just so they can amplify the criticism, which just muddies the waters.

[Hanshithispantz]

Spot on. Beggars belief that anyone thought targeting Pardew made any sense at all

 

How did it not make sense? The obnoxious c*** has gone hasn't he? You can follow his adventures at Palace if you really feel deprived.

 

How did it not make sense? Well, to rehash previous posts - it gave us an even worse manager (something which was entirely predictable don't forget), it deflected attention away from Ashley, it made Pardew actually look good and/or victimised, it produced the ridiculous Carver-fans bust-up, and, whisper it quietly because it's aggravating some people to hear this: because of the specific way it went about its aims, it reinforced the stereotype that NUFC fans are fickle and will turn on a manager as soon as they're not pushing for European glory - obviously I shall now have to apply the obligatory disclaimer here that me saying that is in no way an accusation that the fans or the campaign were being fickle. I know they weren't, you know they weren't, but if you want to know why I think SackPardew didn't make sense, I can't answer that question without saying it.

There's a far bigger picture than just "Pardew gone. Carver in. The end." The club was unable to move forward when a large section of our fan-base was unwaveringly behind the figurehead of the club despite him breaking records for incompetence and almost relegating us. He was invincible here, and the fanbase was massively fractured because of him.

 

Mike Ashley didn't want Pardew to leave either, so forcing his man out the door makes perfect sense.