England

[Hanshithispantz]

If you want to edit out Pulis on the sly KI I'll delete this comment

 

Oh aye, the daft cunt's Welsh isn't he? You get what I mean though, it does extend to Wales and Scotland, but obviously doing so would bring in Alex Ferguson and he really doesn't help my argument. That's the second time I've done that recently with nationalities as well.

I used to do it all the time, it's why it sticks out

 

 

[Foluwashola]

https://twitter.com/ramalbumclub/status/747562030958321664

 

Have we also had this? Wot 

What the fuck?

 

how

 

Can't stop watching it. The bloke just roars it back at her

[Kaizero]

The reason we suck has nothing to do with the media, it's been a scapegoat for years and quite frankly has to stop. The reason we suck above all else EVERY SINGLE PLAYER constantly make dumb decisions and were thicker than the average bloke down the local, that's not something which can be pinned on Roy Hodgson or the media.

 

How we develop players is all wrong and pretty much every single one seem to have the IQ of a rabbit, actually no that would be unfair to the rabbit and until that changes we will continue to play like shit.

 

I think it's fairly obvious the media takes a large part in picking your team because you have weak willed managers in charge. It's not just the media, as mentioned in my posts. It's just one part of a larger problem that needs correcting on all levels to get a fully functional team.

[Mole_Toonfan]

The reason we suck has nothing to do with the media, it's been a scapegoat for years and quite frankly has to stop. The reason we suck above all else EVERY SINGLE PLAYER constantly make dumb decisions and were thicker than the average bloke down the local, that's not something which can be pinned on Roy Hodgson or the media.

 

How we develop players is all wrong and pretty much every single one seem to have the IQ of a rabbit, actually no that would be unfair to the rabbit and until that changes we will continue to play like s***.

 

I think it's fairly obvious the media takes a large part in picking your team because you have weak willed managers in charge. It's not just the media, as mentioned in my posts. It's just one part of a larger problem that needs correcting on all levels to get a fully functional team.

 

Well that's true, point being that Roy Hodgson or the media doesn't make the players make awful decisions that a non league player would wince at. I would agree it's an issue and just part of a larger issue that needs correcting though.

[mozy]

There's an obsession in English football with individuals and has been for years to the detriment of the team. Before the tournament the opinions were being voiced 'Roy has to start Kane, Vardy, Rooney in the same side' etc. Those opinions and voices were wrong, the fact is that those 3 players starting does not benefit the side as a whole. The most obvious example is the Gerrard v Lampard debate.

 

What we needed were strong tactics, team balance and intensity. We got none of that.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The reason we suck has nothing to do with the media, it's been a scapegoat for years and quite frankly has to stop. The reason we suck above all else EVERY SINGLE PLAYER constantly make dumb decisions and were thicker than the average bloke down the local, that's not something which can be pinned on Roy Hodgson or the media.

 

How we develop players is all wrong and pretty much every single one seem to have the IQ of a rabbit, actually no that would be unfair to the rabbit and until that changes we will continue to play like shit.

 

I think it's fairly obvious the media takes a large part in picking your team because you have weak willed managers in charge. It's not just the media, as mentioned in my posts. It's just one part of a larger problem that needs correcting on all levels to get a fully functional team.

 

That was true in the past like Kaiz, it's certainly not now. There aren't really any big name players who are picked on reputation anymore because 1) they're either definitely the best option (Hart - although maybe not now ) or 2) there's generally not a massive difference in quality when picking between Kane and Vardy or say Sterling and Lallana. It's not a situation like in '06 where someone like Carrick looked like exactly what was needed and they persevered with Lampard and Gerrard.

 

The only player that sticks out like that now is Rooney, and there's really no pressure to play him anymore. Take him? Sure, but England's not been that way since the last world cup and the media knows we're not that good. Having said that, it's not at all unreasonable to still expect them to beat Iceland like.

[Jayson]

Roy lost his bottle in the Portugal game, tried to fit Rooney in and couldnt differentiate between whether the tactics hed set up were nullifying the threat of Kane/Vardy or whether they just played badly together. It was obviously the former, but the latter meant no Rooney. So he somehow came up with both not starting them together again and moving Rooney.

 

Befire that we were scoring pretty easily.

[Kaizero]

There's an obsession in English football with individuals and has been for years to the detriment of the team. Before the tournament the opinions were being voiced 'Roy has to start Kane, Vardy, Rooney in the same side' etc. Those opinions and voices were wrong, the fact is that those 3 players starting does not benefit the side as a whole. The most obvious example is the Gerrard v Lampard debate.

 

What we needed were strong tactics, team balance and intensity. We got none of that.

 

Let's jump ten years into the future. England has produced an LW and an RW that are world class. However, the current England manager has built all his success on playing as narrow as you can. No width, and it's had great success.

 

Knowing what I know about England, I would 100% expect the manager to somehow end up picking the two wingers - which he never would ordinarily use - and put them into his side, just because they are "world class". This will then make the England side implode, as it fucks up all tactics and plans that have worked so well.

 

What England needs is a manager that has a vision, and the balls to stick with that vision. Rooney doesn't fit your style of play? Fine, leave him home. His name and reputation shouldn't mean he has to be in your team if your team performs better with a style that would not suit Rooney.

 

This is where I think the issue of the media comes in, as the shitstorm that would ensue should a manager, ten years in the future, leave out the world star wingers because he doesn't want to waste two spots on players that does not fit his vision... the media would implode. It'd be a witch hunt. Supporters would read all the papers and go "I believe everything The Sun writes, fuck this manager! He's fucking England up the ass!", which in turn would seep into the dressing room, making the players feel unrest and the vicious cycle continues. England can never play the way the manager wants because if they do England will fuck up the manager.

[Jayson]

Half the media were questioning even taking Rooney though, it was the manager this time. No one got Sterling, Wilshere etc as choices. It wasnt pressure it was him being loyal he said.

[Kaizero]

I'm not solely blaming the media, as I've said. I've just said how the cycle usually goes. Hodgson was a shit choice for England manager and a lot of shit came because of that, no doubt about it. But it doesn't mean that just changing the manager will solve all of Englands worries in the future.

[Guest firetotheworks]

FWIW, I could see what Hodgson was trying to do and in those first few matches we played some nice football, but as soon as teams figured out that everything went through the overlapping fullbacks we were screwed. In that situation you need to be well-versed enough to be able to make it count regardless of how much the opposition try to stop it, in the way that someone like Dani Alves does, or you have a plan B.

 

I think it's fair to say that our only option was plan B and that it should have been Andy Carroll.

 

Saying that mind, leaving out Lallana when he'd been a big part of us playing in that way was also absolute suicide because he was winning the ball back all of the time before this match.

[Marmoset]

There's obviously more to it than just team selection or tactics (not to say they don't matter obviously).

 

There were a couple of close ups of Kane at around the 70 minute mark, and his face wasn't one of determination to make something happen, every pore was absolutely aching with anxiety. Massive fear of failure and the repercussions and I'm sure he's not the only one.

[Away Toon]

The bottom line is that most of the players are just not really very good, though because they are high profile and play in the Premier League people seem to think they are. Hart, well we've just seen how hopeless he can be. Rose and Walker are good athletes poor footballers. We knew that Cahill and Smalling were weak, it didn't even take a good team to show it. Rooney in centre midfield somebody is having a joke, and yet nobody said anything. Wilshire shouldn't have been picked, neither should have Sterling,  Lallana is all puff and no smoke, Sturridge everything that is wrong with the modern footballer.

 

Kane looked fucked and taking corners and free kicks please. Alli a lost little boy. Vardy left on the bench, Rashford who maybe a player not given a chance.

 

A royal Roy fuck up for sure, but most of the players don't measure up at International level at all.

[Marmoset]

I think quarters with better performances and eliminated againts a one of the bigger boys with these players would have been par.

[mrmojorisin75]

i turned off the post-match stuff last night, did steve mcclaren take off the roy hodgson mask in the end then?

[hakka]

Fuck off English national football. They don't deserve a single piece of support anymore and I don't ever want to support them again (I hope I can see this through). They should play with no fans supporting them. They are overpaid and arrogant wankers. Fuck off Roy too. Useless old man. You could pick a team from the Championship that would have won this last night. I wish every English fan could have their full costs of supporting England through this tournament refunded by the millionaires that didn't turn up on the pitch.

[Guest chopey]

We failed as always by putting individuals before the team Rooney has no position anymore and he won't last 6 months at Man Utd because he wanders all over the pitch and doesn't stick to formation

[hakka]

Roy couldn't manage to pick a balanced squad for the competition let alone a first 11. Every mistake we made in the tournament we made again last night. Kane  being picked, Kane on set pieces, Sterling picked, Sturridge too deep, No Lallana, Not long enough for Rashford etc. - And to think the players and manager were harping on about giving someone a tonking when it all clicks in to place, the big headed tossers.

 

Iceland deserve massive praise though, they knew their faults and strengths and played a perfect game to protect themselves and exploit us. They looked so more composed and hungry compared to us.

 

Whoever replaces Roy has to be a tactician over a coach. End of the day you don't get enough time with the players to truly coach them, and motivational ability shouldn't be a huge requirement because what more do you need than to play for your country and in major tournaments? We need someone with balls and a great tactical mind. Someone who will pick the best formation and first 11, and if that means dropping big names so be it. I'm sure there's plenty of coaches out there who could do this, but dare I say it needs to be someone like Rafa.

[hakka]

What on earth was up with Harry Kane this tournament? Bloke looked a shadow of himself throughout and didn't deserve the full game last night.

 

Joe Hart is another one. He made major mistakes giving a goal away in nearly every game, yet no punishment.

 

That formation last night just didn't suit the guys picked to play it. Lack of real width and wingers was a killer for us. The only plan was to give it to the full back and hope they can cross. Sadly our crossing standards are woeful.

 

Through the middle we looked terrible. Slow, ponderous and predictable. No urgency, no confidence, no technical ability and no killer instinct.

[hakka]

The contrast there between the BBC and ITV punditry, man.

 

Shocking difference. ITV's Dixon and Crouch were falling over each other trying to make excuses. Only Ian Wright had any balls to say it like it is.

[hakka]

 

Here's the basic stats on how effective we were versus our opponents.

 

I find it in incredible that we created more than three times as many shots than our opponents overall but only just equaled the amount of goals scored. How fucking useless are we given how much of the ball we had seen? Our opposition was pretty much twice as accurate at shooting and three times as deadly. No England player can defend this tournament, we were fucking woeful.

 

We score a goal on average every 20.5 shots at goal, so probably needed another 20 odd shots against Iceland to have found the equalizer let alone a winner. And even in that game we were gifted a fucking penalty.

[Parky]

Here's my tuppence.

 

The reason why England are so very very average at international level is down to a few factors.

 

In summary: media, money, education, seeding.

 

The media, Sky are included in this but i'll get to them in a moment.. but the press.. they know essentially half these guys are stealing a living and it's quite down to them in first place.. they build up these kids as the next big thing, in the hope maybe one of them may be the next Gazza. Well newsflash.. Rooney certainly was not a Gazza.. he was above average for a short time but never world class.. how the fat cunt can earn 300k a week is bewildering.. he should never have been in the squad, let alone playing every minute.

 

The media made sure he was a household name, made sure he was talked about in comparison to Englands best ever players and they made sure he remained a household name. Too big to drop? If that's the case, it's down to them. Rooney is just one example but you could nearly name a player in the side and draw same comparisons, just not to the same scale.

 

Sky, BT etc, they've made the Premier League the wealthiest in the world but it simply can't compete with La Liga or even Serie A for quality.. the money props up this shit heap and let's guys who should never have really made it, earn ridiculous amounts of money.. so much in fact that, their attitude is terrible.. they expect everything and don't feel the need to repay such life's luck by working hard enough to actually be better.

 

Education is another thing, half of England's players can't string a sentence together. Thick as pig shit.. but no vision, no intelligence, you could see this tonight.. they can run about for 90 minutes just fine but having the intelligence to act on the field to do something different? It's non existent. Other nations do not have this problem. The solution would be to make kids pass their exams in school instead of having them tied to pro contracts at 16.. let them develop to around the age of 21 or 22 before going anywhere near first team football. It would be good for them in the long run as well as the national side.

 

And finally.. the FIFA/UEFA seeding system is not fit for purpose. England are a top 10 side my arse.. but yet every 2 years they get favorable groups which enable them to qualify for these tournaments at ease. Put them in a tougher group, which they may not qualify from.. it will actually give the players some experience of playing true competitive football.. they might develop an edge.

 

I firmly believe that if England had to face teams like Germany and Italy in a qualifying group, they most likely wouldn't get through.

 

This is why it's seen as such a miracle for the likes of Ireland/N.I to get through to these things, or Iceland for that matter.. they had to dump the dutch out to get here.. how any of you thought this match was going to be a formality is staggering, it also mirrors the arrogance that media would have had you believe about the nations chances.

 

So the conversation about the next manager? It really doesn't matter a fuck who takes over... all these issues will remain for the next guy, all those pressures created by the media. Unless these fundamentals are addressed this shit will keep happening every 2 years.. and no amount 8-0 victories over San Marino will change that fact.

 

Good read.

 

Also these players are carried in their club sides by some of the best players from overseas so there are aspects to their game that remain under developed and one of them is pitch intelligence. Why did the Spurs players look so flat after a good season...? No Ericksen, no Lamela.

[La Parka]

Why does Harry Kane never shut his gob? Looks half asleep as well. Fair to say that's the worst England performance of my lifetime.

[hakka]

Here's my tuppence.

 

The reason why England are so very very average at international level is down to a few factors.

 

In summary: media, money, education, seeding.

 

The media, Sky are included in this but i'll get to them in a moment.. but the press.. they know essentially half these guys are stealing a living and it's quite down to them in first place.. they build up these kids as the next big thing, in the hope maybe one of them may be the next Gazza. Well newsflash.. Rooney certainly was not a Gazza.. he was above average for a short time but never world class.. how the fat cunt can earn 300k a week is bewildering.. he should never have been in the squad, let alone playing every minute.

 

The media made sure he was a household name, made sure he was talked about in comparison to Englands best ever players and they made sure he remained a household name. Too big to drop? If that's the case, it's down to them. Rooney is just one example but you could nearly name a player in the side and draw same comparisons, just not to the same scale.

 

Sky, BT etc, they've made the Premier League the wealthiest in the world but it simply can't compete with La Liga or even Serie A for quality.. the money props up this shit heap and let's guys who should never have really made it, earn ridiculous amounts of money.. so much in fact that, their attitude is terrible.. they expect everything and don't feel the need to repay such life's luck by working hard enough to actually be better.

 

Education is another thing, half of England's players can't string a sentence together. Thick as pig shit.. but no vision, no intelligence, you could see this tonight.. they can run about for 90 minutes just fine but having the intelligence to act on the field to do something different? It's non existent. Other nations do not have this problem. The solution would be to make kids pass their exams in school instead of having them tied to pro contracts at 16.. let them develop to around the age of 21 or 22 before going anywhere near first team football. It would be good for them in the long run as well as the national side.

 

And finally.. the FIFA/UEFA seeding system is not fit for purpose. England are a top 10 side my arse.. but yet every 2 years they get favorable groups which enable them to qualify for these tournaments at ease. Put them in a tougher group, which they may not qualify from.. it will actually give the players some experience of playing true competitive football.. they might develop an edge.

 

I firmly believe that if England had to face teams like Germany and Italy in a qualifying group, they most likely wouldn't get through.

 

This is why it's seen as such a miracle for the likes of Ireland/N.I to get through to these things, or Iceland for that matter.. they had to dump the dutch out to get here.. how any of you thought this match was going to be a formality is staggering, it also mirrors the arrogance that media would have had you believe about the nations chances.

 

So the conversation about the next manager? It really doesn't matter a fuck who takes over... all these issues will remain for the next guy, all those pressures created by the media. Unless these fundamentals are addressed this shit will keep happening every 2 years.. and no amount 8-0 victories over San Marino will change that fact.

 

Good read.

 

Also these players are carried in their club sides by some of the best players from overseas so there are aspects to their game that remain under developed and one of them is pitch intelligence. Why did the Spurs players look so flat after a good season...? No Ericksen, no Lamela.

 

Both good posts. 

[Cronky]

On reflection, one major thing that we failed to do last night is get the ball in to players between the opposition back four and midfield. It's something that we've got better at over the last couple of years, but last night it didn't happen.

 

That may be down to the way Iceland defended. Roy seemed to anticipate the problem by picking Sterling and Sturridge to get round the back of them. Trouble was, neither played with enough skill or confidence to do that. It was only when Rashford came on that we opened them up.

 

Lallana is the player who gets our short passing game together, and I'd have picked him. We've also been unfortunate that, looking at our other skilful midfield players, Wilshere looks unfit and Barkley is out of form.

 

But at the end of the day, we're not the first team that has failed to work out how to beat this Iceland team.