Guest neesy111 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I think in some games we've smothered teams early on and then took our foot off the gas as the opposition struggles to trouble us. A few games we've looked pretty insipid in the first half and then come out in the 2nd and grabbed a goal or 2 pretty comfortably. I agree we don't look like a massively dangerous side, like Liverpool for example, but I always expect us to be able to grab a couple of goals. Statistically it's working too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 We've absolutely torn some teams to shreds with fantastic attacking football. I think Rafa has different plans for different matches, sometimes he wants us to probe and sometimes he wants us to pile in. We've had numerous games with 20+ shots and a plethora of great chances. Wouldn't be at all surprised if it's some kind of preparation for promotion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danh1 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 I worry about the last few games and how it could effect the team and then I realise Rafa will not let it have a negative effect on the team. The Blackburn game was poor but it was clear we had an eye on the cup game. Last night was just fucking ridiculous and you just know that the team will be fire don't up rather than disheartened by it. The performance last night after 120 minutes and a disappointing end on tuesday is proof that we will come out next Sat with the right attitude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubestationatmidnight Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Lads, we're never ever going to play 2 up top with Benitez Ever! It will be 4-2-3-1, or maybe 4-1-4-1. Rafa favors the 3 CM's, especially the #10. Defensively it allows us to sit on an oppo's #6, whilst if needs be he can drop in to create 5 in midfield. In this league a fair few teams will play a sitting midfielder. Attacking-wise, it means we have 3 players playing in front of the oppositions back four in between the lines, when our Wingers come inside and Full Backs go high. The aim with this is for Shelvey to find one of those 3 players free in pockets of space, or to ping diagonals into the Full Backs. Our build up play is slow, and it does allow us to take up good positions and control the game- we were able to do this comfortable against 10 men ffs- but I do agree that there needs to be a personnel change in the AM position. Perez isn't a 10 for me, he's a ST. Diame is thick as f*** and shouldn't be near this team tbh, so we're already out of options. Think it's a minor frustration that we're going to have to live with for this season until we can invest in a good AM for next season. I still would love to see 4-4-2, though. Was clear as day we needed a quality attacking midfielder back in the summer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Got to appeal that one. Never a sending off in a billion years. can't be arsed to find the dummett thread but he was f***ing horrible up to the sending off last night, worst player on the pitch, and i think he's been decent overall down a level Ronaldo's going to kick off when he sees this! You're not allowed to have a go at Paul! But I agree, he was all over the place. Not at all, when someone's had a bad game I'll say it. Dummett was awful last night and he usually is after he's been out of the team for a couple of games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we piss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it fucking sorted man! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Dummet is an awful footballer and was piss poor last night. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Dummet is an awful footballer and was p*ss poor last night. he has definitely improved this seaon. i know its championship opposition, and i'm not a fan of his, but he has been better. even whipped a few crosses in. poor last night, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! You sound just like Tim Sherwood tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy84 Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 It's difficult to question Benitez with how things have gone, people's opinions of course but when we win again this will die down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Personally reckon we need to target the plate spinners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? My take on this is for four reasons. 1. Personnel. Finding a formation for your best players is my preference. Mitro and Gayle look like they could do damage to this league. Perez and Diame don't seem to be cutting it. Doubt the former is ever going to now; re the latter? Not sure 10 is his best position. 2. We are predictable. We always seem, to my untrained eye, to set up the same. Ok, just like Peter Beardsley's shimmy, we're predicable but usually effective, but we would be more effective with another trick or two up our sleeve. 3. Opposition tactics. Teams are s*** scared of us. Forest, at home, sat back two ranks of 4, one 'big man' striker, conceded all possession to us (75% until chaos started).I watched Boro away at Man City. Forest looked to have the same 'ambition' as Boro. There is no space for Gayle in behind or in the channels facing this kind of jam packed defence. An additional body, especially a strong one capable of holding the ball up, getting in amongst defenders, and scoring himself would make a difference. 4. Life isn't an experiment. However many we're scoring or winning, we won't ever know if we would score more or less with other personnel playing or tactics. Why does it matter if we're top? Obviously it doesn't if we are top at the end of the season, the people clammering for Mitro and Gayle obviously think use (flexible use) of this option will increase the likelihood of this happening. Also, FWIW I recall an interview with Rafa when he arrived were he emphatically stated (claimed?) he would happily play two strikers, should it be needed. I think it is needed now, or at least would like to see it. Who knows, may have tried and not have worked-out in training. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Personally reckon we need to target the plate spinners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Why did KK sign Shearer when we had Ferdinand... It's about improving and developing further and two up front would suit our play better and yield us better returns on our dominance and possession. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! You sound just like Tim Sherwood tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 It's a worthless debate because Rafa doesn't play with two strikers. If he did then it would be worth talking about, but he doesn't so I dunno why people are bringing it up, you have to accept Rafa doing things his way and get over the whole 2 striker thing, particularly when Rafa's been largely successful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Why did KK sign Shearer when we had Ferdinand... ...and still didn't win anything and were arguably worse that season. Meanwhile Rafa's won league titles, cups, and Champion's League's doing things his way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Shelvey's absence will surely force a tactical reshuffle, especially as he seems integral to our current system and there's no like for like replacement. The only way we could stick with the system would be to play Hayden or Perez in the Shelvey role. Perez seemed to play there after Shelvey got sent off, and we dominated and scored despite being a man down. There is a clear risk though that Perez is too lightweight for the position. Hayden is the other option - he can play a bit, but we would lose a lot in creativity. The obvious alternative to those two options is a tactical reshuffle and bring in Mitro alongside Gayle. If Hayden and Colback are in centre mid, with Gouffran and Ritchie working hard on the flanks, I think it'd be solid enough. It'll be interesting to see what Rafa does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Going back to the 442 argument and the incorrect thought that we aren't scoring enough, my thoughts are that we are playing a system that will serve us very well when we go up a level when back in the prem. We wob't dominate possession so much and will appreciate the extra man in midfield. I also think that with the marauding (ahem!...dummet!) full backs we are quite set up to attack??? It is hard to score goals when teams "park the bus" it's irrelevant if you play 442, 351, or whatever, they still have nine men defending.... I personally think the system is great and it's the first time I have seen us genuinely well organised and hard to break down, with some better quality in the final third we would whop teams every game. I also don't see that many prem sides playing 442, as the game is much more about control and not losing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 P.S. last couple of games have been unlucky: Pennas, sendings off and offside? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Rafa knows more than HTT. That doesn't mean he can't be questioned, it's just that questioning him is wrong. I don't have the answers for most of the "why not 442?" Stuff but I bet Rafa does. Presumably if we give up a midfielder, we give up some possession and control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Rafa knows more than HTT. That doesn't mean he can't be questioned, it's just that questioning him is wrong. I don't have the answers for most of the "why not 442?" Stuff but I bet Rafa does. Presumably if we give up a midfielder, we give up some possession and control. That's the exact word Rafa used when asked why he doesn't use 4-4-2, control of the midfield. Obviously some of us on here think you can still do that with 4-4-2 because the standard of the teams in the Championship isn't good. I suppose that's the argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Neesy makes valid points and it is a genuine concern us dominating yet not hurting teams more. Rafa needs to play two up top and to sort CM out. Its not exactly costing us big time, but it is curtailing us all the same. Play Mitrovic and Gayle up top and go for the jugglers and we p*ss this league. We are the equivalent of shopping in an expensive shop, with a wad full of money, but fannying on as to what to buy exactly. Buy, spend. Leave. In short get it f***ing sorted man! Why does a team that's the top scorers in the division, averaging 2 goals a game, need to play 2 strikers? Why did KK sign Shearer when we had Ferdinand... ...and still didn't win anything and were arguably worse that season. Meanwhile Rafa's won league titles, cups, and Champion's League's doing things his way. I reckon had KK stayed, we would have went very close again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 That doesn't mean he can't be questioned, it's just that questioning him is wrong. Well that makes complete sense... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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