HaydnNUFC Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 We've been equally as bad in games at home with Shelvey, though. It's not solely down to his absence. Huddersfield, Wolves and Blackburn were just as bad creativity wise as last night was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyboy Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I f Shelvey had played last night he would have been crunched every time he got near the ball the same as they did to Gayle and would maybe have lost his rag and got booked/sent off. That was the SW plan. everyone knows we knock it around quite nicely (but with very little pace) so they closed us down real quick and they also had pace out wide to break quickly, something we don't have in ab.undance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Rafa is totally over analysing things in this division at home. He needs to remember that all sides in this division regard us as the dogs bollocks and so their regular week to week game which Rafa meticulously prepares the players about and for changes massively when they play us, in many ways to the opposite of how they would normally play. And we struggle with that, especially at home. We need to ditch the cautious over analysed, over drilled mechanical way we play at home because it's f***ing boring and costing us dearly. Rafa's ways will be essential in the PL, but in this division it's like putting a diesel in a f***ing Ferrari. You might get better MPG, but it's a f***ing Ferrari man, f*** the MPG! Pretty sure Rafa hasn't clocked on to this. Best be sending out on a postcard to the Wirral HTT! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 He hasn't, he sets us up to combat how the opposition play and nine times out of ten when they face us they play entirely different. Rafa doesn't have a crystal ball so can't possibly know how a team will exactly play against us other than some intrinsic traits. KK understood this. You can prepare your team to play against an opposition in certain ways, but it's always best to try and impose your own game and ways on the opposition and then deal with any in game tactics and changes accordingly. The thing is, we don't exactly have our own game that we can say is our trait, is our way, other than the cautious possioson based 'control' mantra that Rafa espouses, and even then the reality is different. In the PL again, his tactics, preparation, methods and ways will be invaluable, but in this division most of his ways and methods are OTT and counter productive! Just send them out to attack, to go after the opposition, trust the superior quality we have and give players like Ritchie some freedom. 3 defensive midfielders at home effectively and a lone striker is Pardew levels of bull shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Take it you've not heard his post-match interview then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Pardew was right about one thing about this football club, a lot of the fan base are fucking bipolar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Some of the talk is quite unsettling. I must say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foluwashola Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 You can tell we've lost a game. People questioning everything. People questioning Rafa. Wey give owwa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Some people don't know they're born/remember that our last three managers were John Carver, Steve McLaren, and Alan Pardew. It's quite alarming how quickly people have taken things for granted. We're owed NOTHING by Rafa, learn to have a bit of faith and humility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Can understand his thought process a lot more now, after hearing his post-match comments. Most interesting takeaway was him saying players were panicking on the ball and playing it long, leading to them picking up the second balls. That would probably explain his lack of Mitro intro (a situation he needs to sort this Jan, IMO) in that he didn't want to encourage us stretching play in that fashion. He's probably looking at it from the European standpoint - to break teams down, you keep a wider general shape and work the ball into the final third and then speed play up. His big problem is still midfield, IMO. Think he misjudged a couple of players and what they're capable of without Shelvey. Diame's contribution from a 10 was especially pathetic. I'm not sold on 4-4-2, either - we were porous with the extra man yesterday, don't think we've got the athleticism in midfield or the individual defensive quality to cope with opening up like that. We've shown we can play really good football in 4-2-3-1, he just needs to find the balance again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Losing 6 games in half a season in the championship isn't particularly impressive and there's some definite concerns about the mentality of the team, the second we went 1-0 down yesterday it was obvious to everyone we weren't going to come back, players are declining and the general play is poor to watch even when we win. Even the best managers have to tweak things and make changes, he has made errors in judgement in my opinion and he should be looking at rectifying them. Its alright saying "in Rafa we trust" and "Do you think you know better than Rafa?" But at the end of the day things do need to pick up a bit, luckily hes such a good manager that I have faith he will get it sorted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Losing 6 games in half a season in the championship isn't particularly impressive and there's some definite concerns about the mentality of the team, the second we went 1-0 down yesterday it was obvious to everyone we weren't going to come back, players are declining and the general play is poor to watch even when we win. Even the best managers have to tweak things and make changes, he has made errors in judgement in my opinion and he should be looking at rectifying them. Its alright saying "in Rafa we trust" and "Do you think you know better than Rafa?" But at the end of the day things do need to pick up a bit, luckily hes such a good manager that I have faith he will get it sorted. Are faith and trust the same thing on this occasion ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Some people don't know they're born/remember that our last three managers were John Carver, Steve McLaren, and Alan Pardew. It's quite alarming how quickly people have taken things for granted. We're owed NOTHING by Rafa, learn to have a bit of faith and humility. It's crazy man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 If only we were all as balanced and understated as Kaka Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Beds being wet aal owa the shop. Some people don't know they're born/remember that our last three managers were John Carver, Steve McLaren, and Alan Pardew. It's quite alarming how quickly people have taken things for granted. We're owed NOTHING by Rafa, learn to have a bit of faith and humility. So hes not allowed criticism at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Its the hysterical emotive shit that is absolutley appalling. It's childish as fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Losing 6 games in half a season in the championship isn't particularly impressive and there's some definite concerns about the mentality of the team, the second we went 1-0 down yesterday it was obvious to everyone we weren't going to come back, players are declining and the general play is poor to watch even when we win. Even the best managers have to tweak things and make changes, he has made errors in judgement in my opinion and he should be looking at rectifying them. Its alright saying "in Rafa we trust" and "Do you think you know better than Rafa?" But at the end of the day things do need to pick up a bit, luckily hes such a good manager that I have faith he will get it sorted. Totally agree with this - I cannot understand why some fans persist in sticking their heads in the sand and pretending everything is OK when it isn't - as you say, TWD, losing 6 games - 4 at home - in half a season in the Championship is NOT impressive esp when other chasing clubs are showing little sign of showing similar lapses in form. As I recall, quite a number of fans used to harangue those who complained about Pardew when it was clear that the guy was a con-man and these same people are now trying to shut down debate about an aspect of the team's performances which is clearly a concern and using the 'In Rafa we trust' mentality to stop others examining the whole thing. NOBODY on here has equated Rafa with the likes of McClaren, Carver and P45Due and nor should they, but it is perfectly reasonable to question why the manager plays a certain way if it shows signs of not working, or why he makes certain decisions during games. I have never personally criticized him at all this season because he clearly has done a great job in a short time but I DID question why it took him so long to bring Mitro on during the Weds game because it was clear that their physical approach was giving Gayle no chance. Many fans took KK to task when he sold Andy Cole to Man U in 1995 but Keegan went out and talked to them and explained his decision..he also said that he knew what the consequences were if he got it wrong, so NO manager is above being questioned. Any honest fan who has seen us play, esp at home this season, will admit that the football has hardly been scintillating but when you need to get results people will accept that. What does make them uneasy is when the results are becoming patchy, especially in home games ; anyone with any sense knows that you cannot lose more than a certain number of games if you want/need to win leagues or gain promotion because the competition is intense. As things stand now, we are roughly where we deserve to be and that is NOT at the top of the league because Brighton have been more consistent especially at home. Had it not been for Darlow, our goal difference advantage would have been eaten away because we could easily have conceded 4 against Weds and Brighton scored 3 without reply last night. Other clubs are also showing consistent performances, Reading and Leeds among them and Derby have also put a good run together although it remains to be seen if that continues under McClaren. This league is FAR from settled and the sooner many fans get it into their heads that we face a battle to avoid the lottery of the Play-offs, the better...because we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 FWIW, I think a lot of your fears aren't based in reality. Rafa's plan B won him the Champions League, man. He changes things up during matches a lot, it not always working isn't the same as him not changing anything. He did, but he had better players at his disposal then than he has now....some fans have built our squad up to be PL quality...and it is NOT. Players like Colback and Dummett, to name just 2, should not be in a PL squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubaricho Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 FWIW, I think a lot of your fears aren't based in reality. Rafa's plan B won him the Champions League, man. He changes things up during matches a lot, it not always working isn't the same as him not changing anything. He did, but he had better players at his disposal then than he has now....some fans have built our squad up to be PL quality...and it is NOT. Players like Colback and Dummett, to name just 2, should not be in a PL squad. Good thing we're not in the Premier League then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Alot of hyperbole in here following a horrid performance. I'd argue that imo we're about 4 quality signings away from being a solid mid table Premiership side (injuries permitting). An experienced centre back, an attacking left back, a winger, and a proper number 10. The latter two need to be creative to take away the complete reliance the current side has on Shelvey, and a good left back will complement Yedlin on the other flank and ensure 90% of our attacks down the left aren't wasted as they currently are with Dummett, and one good experienced centreback will be more than enough to solidify the defense with Clark/Lascelles/Mbemba/Hanley as partner. In fact, Lascelles and Mbemba already formed a competent Premiership partnership towards the back end of last season. Whilst I understand the doom and gloom nature of some mindsets following a disappointing defeat and worrying performance against a mediocre team who were made to look like world beaters, lets not forget that according to some (many?) in here we were going to struggle to even compete for promotion since we didn't have this core of strong personalities that we had last time round, or that we hadn't signed proper proven quality goalscorers (Gayle was an unknown quantity, Murphy a mediocre Mackem). In fact, the last time we were in the Championship I remember many of us being completely down because of the lack of signings in the summer window post relegation (Lovenkrands the only permanent signing iirc), and even after promotion we were still going to struggle badly given the squad we had without major investment. And of course none of that panned out that way - so the glass half full view isn't always the right perspective. There's a few of things to consider as to maybe why: 1) Mediocre players can be useful, even in the Premiership. It's all about balance, and having enough good players to carry those around them. When we finished 5th under Pardew we had Raylor, Obertan, Saylor, Guthrie, Jonas, Best, Simpson, Perch, etc, in and out of the side. 2) A couple of good signings can transform a team entirely. Think Robert and Bellamy transforming a slow, boring, predictable lower mid table side into an attacking, free flowing top 4 team under Sir Bobby. Or Woodgate making Bramble/O'Brien look solid. Adding the right "something" can completely negate a weakness which impacts the team as a whole, and that something doesn't need to be changing an entire team. 3) A very common trait with fans is completely overlooking, or failing to understand the concept of, players improving with time and experience. Everything has to be here and now. People want someone proven immediately, failing that it's "game over". Sort of like that West Ham fan a couple of decades ago having a go at Harry Redknapp for displaying nepotistic favoritism by playing his 18 year old nephew who wasn't good enough, Frank Lampard. Closer to home Andy Carroll and Tim Krul are the most recent relevant NUFC examples of players declared my many at the time to be not good enough for the Championship, or the Premiership, and it seems to be the case that being proven wrong doesn't soften the lack of faith in players improving. FWIW I'd say Darlow, Yedlin, Clark, Ritchie, Hayden, Gayle, will all be Premiership ready by the end of the season. 4) Rafa Benitez is in complete control of NUFC. This man has won the CL, knows the English, Spanish and Italian leagues inside out because of direct first hand recent experience, and should we get back into the Premiership could well have a significant transfer kitty to work with. So that's a widely recognized world class manager potentially capable of attracting players through reputation alone, having money to spend, in probably the most attractive league in the world to prospective talent, at a relatively well known Premiership club due to having frequently appeared in Europe, and with a large stadium. I'd be surprised if we didn't get at least a couple of genuine top quality players in who'll do well in his system in that scenario. I'm really not worried about next season at all with this squad and Rafa in charge. The only worry is getting back into the Premiership, especially through the automatic promotion slots. But I think if we add a couple of decent Championship calibre attacking players to the team whilst shifting those who want away (Tiote, Mitrovic), similar to what we did with Routledge/Harewood the last time we were here, we shouldn't have any problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Alot of hyperbole in here following a horrid performance. IMO we're about 4 good signings away from being a solid mid table Premiership side You're having a laugh, like. We need 4 defenders alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemtizz Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 signings would be absurd. We need triple that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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