Hanshithispantz Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Blackburn, Blackpool & Leyton Orient are all nothing clubs like, I cannot see them being a huge draw for buyers. I get the point that Ashley might want to gamble and hold onto the club to benefit from a return to the Premiership like - that would require investment though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Starting to get more realistic, yet he currently values a club with very poor infrastructure and much needed investment in that and the playing squad at double the current valuation of Southampton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Blackburn, Blackpool & Leyton Orient are all nothing clubs like, I cannot see them being a huge draw for buyers. I get the point that Ashley might want to gamble and hold onto the club to benefit from a return to the Premiership like - that would require investment though. If we were in League One or Two, we'd probably be a "nothing club" too. Other than numbers through the turnstile - what have we achieved in the last 30 years that is better than Blackburn, for example? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Wolves went down to League One and got bought out by one of the richest guys about. Villa went down and got bought out. Southampton. There's a lot of examples. Wolves were bought in 2016, when they were in the Championship. Villa were a very recently relegated PL club and with every potential of bouncing straight back. All three of those clubs were also reasonably well priced and had owners with a willingness to sell. Ashley wouldn't offer either of those, even at that level or below, which is the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Blackburn, Blackpool & Leyton Orient are all nothing clubs like, I cannot see them being a huge draw for buyers. I get the point that Ashley might want to gamble and hold onto the club to benefit from a return to the Premiership like - that would require investment though. If we were in League One or Two, we'd probably be a "nothing club" too. Other than numbers through the turnstile - what have we achieved in the last 30 years that is better than Blackburn, for example? Nowt, but that was the same when we were both in the Premiership and we were still a much more attractive club than them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Wolves went down to League One and got bought out by one of the richest guys about. Villa went down and got bought out. Southampton. There's a lot of examples. Wolves were bought in 2016, when they were in the Championship. Villa were a very recently relegated PL club and with every potential of bouncing straight back. All three of those clubs were also reasonably well priced and had owners with a willingness to sell. Ashley wouldn't offer either of those, even at that level or below, which is the problem. You just said that he would and it's starting to get more realistic in the PL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Talk about the England squad pls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Wanting Pardew out and thinking we could attract better was fantastical bullshit as well. Why the short term pain for long term gain method doesn't register as an effective method with people is lost on me. It's very simply possibly getting Ashley to fuck off Vs Ashley definitely never fucking off for me. This isn't about teaching Ashley a lesson btw OCK, you've got the wrong end of the stick there. It's about the higher probability of Ashley selling. It goes beyond JUST one relegation as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Ah, I've just seen the other posts. Aye, everything Greg, Hans and MD said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figures 1-0 Football Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Wolves went down to League One and got bought out by one of the richest guys about. Villa went down and got bought out. Southampton. There's a lot of examples. Wolves were bought in 2016, when they were in the Championship. Villa were a very recently relegated PL club and with every potential of bouncing straight back. All three of those clubs were also reasonably well priced and had owners with a willingness to sell. Ashley wouldn't offer either of those, even at that level or below, which is the problem. You just said that he would and it's starting to get more realistic in the PL? Aye, he would sell for a price in the PL. He wouldn't sell for a price in the Championship and below because he wouldn't recoup what he wants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Besides, I can never actively wish us to lose. Call me "part of the problem" all you wish, but there it is. I always want us to win. Ashley selling up is winning. You have a higher possibility of that happening by losing in the short term by making it less worth his while. Surely you can see where people are coming from with that, at least? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Jesus... Hanz and Yorkie can't let s*** go like. Hopefully this clears it up for you lot: Option 1: Want Newcastle to never win again so they're relegated, so the club is less profitable to Mike Ashley, so he'll have a change of heart and sell the club at a reasonable asking price. Happy for Newcastle to be in the lower leagues of English football for this to happen. Happy for Newcastle to have less income, less exposure, less quality of players, and still be in the lower leagues when some new owner takeovers. Oblivious to the idea that for every year we're out of the Premier League is year we 'fall behind' clubs in terms of money and pulling power. Even clubs that were promoted and relegated will stand to be better than us if we remain in the lower leagues due to parachute payments and the like. So when a new Owner does take over it'll take endless amounts of investment to bring us back up to where we can even start to compete to be promoted to the Premiership again. This thought based on fickle whim that if a manager walks they want Newcastle to plummet. Happy for Newcastle to be the next Portsmouth, QPR, Blackburn, Coventry, Fulham, Shef Wed, Shef United, Leeds, Blackpool, etc. in return for Mike Ashley gone from Newcastle United. Option 2: Want Newcastle to do as well as it can despite Mike Ashley being in charge. Would prefer it to remain in the Premier League and for someone to come along and buy Newcastle in the future and take ownership of a club in Premiership. Are we a midtable club at best? Absolutely. Would we like to be more? Absolutely. Will the club survive with Mike Ashley as owner and in the Premier League? Absolutely. Will the club survive with Mike Ashley as owner and in the lower leagues? Very questionable. Comparing the two I fail to see how you wouldn't want Newcastle United to remain in the Premiership regardless of Mike Ashley as owner, as the risk is far less. I can't, as a Newcastle United fan, for a moment put the club's existence in jeopardy in hopes its owner would leave. What if nobody wanted to buy us when we're lounged in the lower leagues for many years, our training ground and stadium sold. Phoenix Club time? Why not go and form or support one now, if that's how you think. Who is going to buy Newcastle United in such a distressed state? A wealth rich business person or another chancer hoping to get Newcastle promoted to then sell us on to someone else? Ask yourself which is more likely. Think of the people who are out there buying football clubs and ask yourself if you want a Venky group, or the mess at Cardiff and Birmingham. Or perhaps the drama of Leeds. Or is it more likely that if we're in the Premiership someone more serious will buy us. I just get the impression that there are so many people feeling embattled that they believe that there's something better out there, that Mike Ashley is the absolute WORSE owner we could ever have. It's sad. Has he quashed all hope and belief within the fanbase? It sure seems like it, if people are will to wish for their own team to be relegated due to a manager leaving. What if Rafa left because another club offered him more money? Would that trigger you too? This place is horrid at times for it's Echo Chamber like environment where you enable and promote the same line of thinking amongst each other over and over again that it's hard to think any other way. You are all so wound up in your hatred for Mike Ashley that you've forgotten you're Newcastle United fans first. You're wrapped up in the financials and the hypothetical of asking prices and ownership that you'd gamble Newcastle United's future as a club on change of owner. You're stuck in this cycle of belief where all you can think about is how Mike Ashley is f***ing over Newcastle United and all your thoughts and opinions are based on that. Nobody here is being advocate for Mike Ashley, so please don't think that for a moment. I simply find it absurd that a fan would wish Newcastle to never win again simply because a manager left the club. Even more absurd that they'll happily exchange Newcastle United's Premier League status and probably survival as a football club in turn for Mike Ashley to pack up and leave. There's no guarantee he'd leave, so that's one hell of a gamble and bluff (hence poker reference). You question my logic, yet there are people in here advocating club suicide to rid itself of Mike Ashley. You might not like what I'm saying, but don't pretend for a moment that it isn't logical or sensible. The early examples of wishing a plane to crash because you don't like the person sitting next to you still stands, this is pretty much what you're wanting. You don't like Mike Ashley, so you'd want Newcastle to crash and burn, even though there are people around you who want to see Newcastle continue, who want to support, who want to be the best we can be in the Premiership and perhaps one day even surpass that (the plane landing). I'm sure there will be wise quips and replies, as you'll still want to believe that never winning a game again and the club being relegated is the better option in the long term. None of you have convinced me that's the way to think, for what it's worth and you won't. Newcastle > Mike Ashley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Wow I bet you've been sat there for an hour waiting to post that. Well done. I hope you enjoy the wank over it later on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Can't you grasp that Newcastle CAN'T do as well as it can do in the Premier League under Ashley? That's the entire point. You wanting it doesn't make you any different to us and nor does it make it happen. You may as well pray for a cure for all the good wanting will do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
louistoon Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 and I'm out. You must all be amazing poker players, that's all I'm saying. You've done absolutely nothing to convince anyone that you've made any sense mind. Made a few weird metaphors and completely misunderstood Yorkies's point. So fair play, we'll see you at the next one. It's okay, a sassy post in Forum Services And Updates will get us telt! Well you (royal) are talking complete s**** to be fair Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Can't you grasp that Newcastle CAN'T do as well as it can do in the Premier League under Ashley? That's the entire point. You wanting it doesn't make you any different to us and nor does it make it happen. You may as well pray for a cure for all the good wanting will do. Can we do better? Yes, of course we can, as can every team in the Premier League. It's not that I can't grasp that thought, it's that I'd rather see Ashley's reign out while we're a Premier League club than try and force his hand by seeing the club fall down the leagues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Those options you present, that's not the debate. If it's a choice between Ashley selling us in the Premier League and Ashley selling us in League 1 then of course everyone takes selling the club in the Premier League. But to date there's been no indication that is even a remote possibility (Barry Moat was an Ashley front) because he values the club at about double it's actual market value for the sole reason he is happy to keep his free global exposure for Sports Direct. Why would he change all of a sudden or why would someone be willing to pay way beyond the market value of the club? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'm not wishing us down to League one or two like. Fuck that. It would be in no way good for us. Short term or long term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCK Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Why would he change all of a sudden or why would someone be willing to pay way beyond the market value of the club? He's not going to change, so why wish for us to be relegated to force his hand. May as well stay in the Premier League, he'll not be owner forever, so why put the club's future in jeopardy for that. Honestly man, I can't comprehend at all why people are wanting Newcastle to be relegated, even with what people have said. It's like you're trying to describe colours to the colour blind. It doesn't compute. I feel sorry for the people who are so battered that they feel like that's the only option remaining. and this time I am out. As I can't see any end to this conversation, you can't understand how I see it, and I can't understand how you see it. We're not going to convince each other otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Barry Moat was championship, was he not? Ashley didn't lower the price there. He'll want at least what he's owed in debt, and then a fee for the club. We'd be over 200 million in league one or two. No chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Can't you grasp that Newcastle CAN'T do as well as it can do in the Premier League under Ashley? That's the entire point. You wanting it doesn't make you any different to us and nor does it make it happen. You may as well pray for a cure for all the good wanting will do. Can we do better? Yes, of course we can, as can every team in the Premier League. It's not that I can't grasp that thought, it's that I'd rather see Ashley's reign out while we're a Premier League club than try and force his hand by seeing the club fall down the leagues. The question isn't 'can we do better?' it's 'will we attempt to do better?' and the answer to that is no. The ambition is to remain in the league, nothing more. If that's the ambition, how likely is it that the club will achieve beyond that? Ask yourself that question and whether you think us wanting more makes any difference. Ashley selling while we're a Premier League club isn't happening short of an extremely wealthy person paying way over the odds. It's also far less likely to happen as he would have far less reason to sell when he's raking in the rewards of being on the gravy train. We're a zombie club until he's gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Barry Moat was championship, was he not? Ashley didn't lower the price there. He'll want at least what he's owed in debt, and then a fee for the club. We'd be over 200 million in league one or two. No chance. Post Keegan leaving, lasting until the following summer, but regardless it wasn't genuine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Barry Moat was championship, was he not? Ashley didn't lower the price there. He'll want at least what he's owed in debt, and then a fee for the club. We'd be over 200 million in league one or two. No chance. Wrong. When he wants to sell the club we'll be a realistic price. While we're in the Premier League getting exposure for his shitty sports brand he has no interest in selling us. Also no interest in us actually trying to be the best we can be either. Unless he's somehow forced to want to sell us then it's not gonna happen. Doesn't matter what league we're in, although not being in the Premier League will hurt him financially. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 So what is going to change to make him drop his vastly unrealistic asking price while we are in the Premier League (asking price is about double the clubs actual market value)? You just said he isn't going to change. Quite sad that people are happy with Ashley's version of NUFC that only exists to advertise Sports Direct. For me, I don't want us relegated as things stand but this is last chance saloon for Ashley with Rafa and self harm has to be an option if and when he fucks it up again (you said he wouldn't change) in an attempt to get the football club back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 So what is going to change to make him drop his vastly unrealistic asking price while we are in the Premier League (asking price is about double the clubs actual market value)? You just said he isn't going to change. Quite sad that people are happy with Ashley's version of NUFC that only exists to advertise Sports Direct. For me, I don't want us relegated as things stand but this is last chance saloon for Ashley with Rafa and self harm has to be an option if and when he fucks it up again (you said he wouldn't change) in an attempt to get the football club back. Coincidentally if Rafa is forced out, only an embarrassingly rapid drop through the leagues might possibly be enough for these people who are happy with Ashleys NUFC to turn on him and for the fans to unite in opposition. Possibly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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