Other clubs' transfers

[The Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Also @Viana I genuinely appreciate the measured responses despite the difference of opinion. It's refreshing. 

 

For balance, fuck off Froggy (insert safety smiley).

[Joe1984]

59 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

I disagree with a lot of this. 

 

We were desperate to sell "big players" like Rashford, Hojlund, Antony, Sancho etc. to balance the books. Because of the stupid contracts given out by the previous board we struggled to do so. People talk about Newcastle having to sell Anderson for PSR reasons etc. We sold homegrown talents like McTominay. Garnacho, Pellistri, Kambwala, Henderson for the exact same reason and were floating the idea of even selling Mainoo because of the PSR implications.

 

You also weren't forced to sell Isak. You simply sold Isak because he didn't want to play for you anymore and it would be stupid to keep him with such a huge offer on the table. The reports I read suggested you'd be more than happy to give him a record contract at Newcastle, but he wanted to leave so this never happened. It was nothing to do with PSR.

 

I don't think players moving to Chelsea or Man United where they won't be a guaranteed starter suggests the system is broken. Players will back themselves to break into teams, and the vast majority would rather player for teams like Chelsea or Man United over the likes of Aston Villa or Newcastle. 

 

We did spend £250m, and you spent £260. Hardly different financial cycles. You're bemoaning being left with Woltemade over Sesko now, but you were all gloating about how you got the better player in the first couple of months of the season where you had all written Sesko off. Now that it's obvious Sesko is far better, it's back to the argument that you were left with scraps.

 

PSR and the "cartel" didn't make you spend £110m on Elanga and Wissa lads. 

Talks about balancing the books.

 

You've sold £1billion worth of players then? 😅

[Ash]

7 minutes ago, Froggy said:

This is why I get my back up a lot about this sort of stuff. People inflate our wages for no reason but to make it appear worse than what it is.

 

Getting your back up because you continually reference a completely useless source?  

[Viana]

12 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Hojlund is a PSR profit.

 

 

Garnacho and McTominay were far more involved in our first team setup than Anderson or Minteh for example were to yours. There was no outcry when Garnacho was sold because he was a ballbag. McTominay is a limited footballer and the money was good, but it was a PSR sale at the end of the day. People make out like we don't have to do that. We absolutely do. 

 

 

OK so. Mbeumo's reported wage is £150,000 a week. This is why I get my back up a lot about this sort of stuff. People inflate our wages for no reason but to make it appear worse than what it is.

 

Pretty clear Sesko is young and an investment. Carrick started Mbeumo up top in his first game against City to help the press and we played so well in that game and the ones that followed that he couldn't really change the team. Sesko did work his way back in though. Even at that he's started 17 out of his 31 games, and a number of bench appearances were either right after he signed, or right after injury.

 

The main bit I'd like to address here though is how we're paying him £160,000 a week and because he's spent half the time on the bench you can't compete with that. Sesko started 54% of his games. 

 

Wissa, £50-55m, £140k a week - 19 appearances, 15 as a sub - started 21% of his games

Elanga, £50-55m, £100k a week - 32 appearances, 18 as a sub - started 43% of his games

Woltemade, £65-70m, £132k a week - 33 appearances, 9 as a sub - started 72% of his games

Ramsey - £39-£43m, £120k a week - 28 appearances, 13 as a sub - started 53% of his games

 

They're all big money signings on big wages and they've collectively started 47% of their games. Not sure what it is you can't compete with to be honest.

 

 

Howe wanted Elanga for years. I can't buy this that he wasn't first choice. He absolutely was first choice. He has been a bad signing, and joined the team with a bunch of other bad signings. They're not write offs, but they were rubbish this season.

 

Sterling also joined City years after they had established themselves. They didn't start with players like Sterling or Aguero. They started with players like Jo and Craig Bellamy. Robinho thought he was joining Chelsea, and he left to go to AC Milan a year or two later anyway.

 

I'd argue the players you were able to sign initially under Howe were of a higher quality than those City initially signed. Even City greats like Kompany, Silva, Zabaleta etc. weren't signed from big clubs. They were signed from teams like Hamburger and Espanyol who were midtable Spanish and German sides and a lot of them were very modest fees.

 

Are you telling me Newcastle couldn't go into Spain and Germany and have their pick of players from Stuttgart or Rayo Vallecano? Of course they could.

 

They simply signed better than you and as hard as it is to maybe admit, Mancini was probably a better coach than Howe.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

Long story short, you cannot put every single signing or every single negative situation down to money. 

- Don't get me started on PSR profits. The mob use more transparency in accounting than half the PSR bollocks

 

-I said 200k when he plays because that's with bonuses included. It was said to be 250k at the time. 

 

- That's sort of my point, you picked up an 'investment' that we intended to be our starting number 9 right now. It's all about resources my man. The big clubs have the scope to acquire more. 

 

-As I've said previously it's not about an inability to spend money, it's an inability to compete from a salary POV for the likes of Mbuemo. If you can offer Sesko, someone you consider a project player for the long term, more than we offer Woltemade and Wissa, the system has a flaw.

 

-If you want a laugh, Man City won the FA Cup in 2011. That summer, they signed Gael Clichy from Arsenal, Nasri from Arsenal, and Aguero from Atletico. We weren't getting near that level of player this past summer. If anything, we were fighting to keep the team together. Man City's big departure was Jerome Boateng, who had struggled. 

 

-We've gone abroad, or at least tried to. Sesko was one. Ekitike was our Isak replacement. We thought that was done and then we were beaten out by the team who ended up buying Isak too. 

 

- I'm not blaming every single thing on money. We made some bad calls in Wissa and Elanga. But we've also seen every commercial deal run past the league and its teams. We've seen preemptive rules introduced to stop us selling to Saudi Arabia (when many of our rivals have happily dumped bad transfers there). I'm all for playing by the rules, but I need to believe we're all playing from the same set. 

 

 

Edited May 27 by Viana

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Joe1984 said:

Talks about balancing the books.

 

You've sold £1billion worth of players then? 😅

 

Sorry, to try and balance the books.

 

1 minute ago, Ash said:

Getting your back up because you continually reference a completely useless source?  

 

Regardless of your opinion on said source, it's a source all the same. 

 

People will happily say Cunha is on £300k a week with nothing to back it up, but if Capology and numerous other reports suggest it's £180k, people are like "oh no, no. You can't use that as a source."

 

Well aware none of us know the exact wages, but I don't see the issue in using media and journalist reports as a rough starting point. 

 

The reason people don't like it on here as it's suggests Newcastle are paying for more than most of you are willing to admit. 

[Ash]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Regardless of your opinion on said source, it's a source all the same. 

 

People will happily say Cunha is on £300k a week with nothing to back it up, but if Capology and numerous other reports suggest it's £180k, people are like "oh no, no. You can't use that as a source."

 

Well aware none of us know the exact wages, but I don't see the issue in using media and journalist reports as a rough starting point. 

 

The reason people don't like it on here as it's suggests Newcastle are paying for more than most of you are willing to admit. 

 

Might as well start using the Beano if anything goes. 

 

The reason people don't like it is that the vast majority of it is made up, hence why they need to have disclaimers at the top of the page. 

 

You said earlier on that Villa and Chelsea pay the same in wages. There's a very easy way to disprove that with official data/information that is in the public domain. 

[KaKa]

A reminder that a lot of these reported wages never also mention how much clubs are giving them in added bonuses. That would be the real eye opener I imagine.

[Froggy]

26 minutes ago, Ash said:

Might as well start using the Beano if anything goes. 

 

The reason people don't like it is that the vast majority of it is made up, hence why they need to have disclaimers at the top of the page. 

 

You said earlier on that Villa and Chelsea pay the same in wages. There's a very easy way to disprove that with official data/information that is in the public domain. 

 

I'm all ears if you can disprove any of the figures. 

[Loki679]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

Hojlund is a PSR profit.

 

 

Garnacho and McTominay were far more involved in our first team setup than Anderson or Minteh for example were to yours. There was no outcry when Garnacho was sold because he was a ballbag. McTominay is a limited footballer and the money was good, but it was a PSR sale at the end of the day. People make out like we don't have to do that. We absolutely do. 

 

 

OK so. Mbeumo's reported wage is £150,000 a week. This is why I get my back up a lot about this sort of stuff. People inflate our wages for no reason but to make it appear worse than what it is.

 

Pretty clear Sesko is young and an investment. Carrick started Mbeumo up top in his first game against City to help the press and we played so well in that game and the ones that followed that he couldn't really change the team. Sesko did work his way back in though. Even at that he's started 17 out of his 31 games, and a number of bench appearances were either right after he signed, or right after injury.

 

The main bit I'd like to address here though is how we're paying him £160,000 a week and because he's spent half the time on the bench you can't compete with that. Sesko started 54% of his games. 

 

Wissa, £50-55m, £140k a week - 19 appearances, 15 as a sub - started 21% of his games

Elanga, £50-55m, £100k a week - 32 appearances, 18 as a sub - started 43% of his games

Woltemade, £65-70m, £132k a week - 33 appearances, 9 as a sub - started 72% of his games

Ramsey - £39-£43m, £120k a week - 28 appearances, 13 as a sub - started 53% of his games

 

They're all big money signings on big wages and they've collectively started 47% of their games. Not sure what it is you can't compete with to be honest.

 

 

Howe wanted Elanga for years. I can't buy this that he wasn't first choice. He absolutely was first choice. He has been a bad signing, and joined the team with a bunch of other bad signings. They're not write offs, but they were rubbish this season.

 

Sterling also joined City years after they had established themselves. They didn't start with players like Sterling or Aguero. They started with players like Jo and Craig Bellamy. Robinho thought he was joining Chelsea, and he left to go to AC Milan a year or two later anyway.

 

I'd argue the players you were able to sign initially under Howe were of a higher quality than those City initially signed. Even City greats like Kompany, Silva, Zabaleta etc. weren't signed from big clubs. They were signed from teams like Hamburger and Espanyol who were midtable Spanish and German sides and a lot of them were very modest fees.

 

Are you telling me Newcastle couldn't go into Spain and Germany and have their pick of players from Stuttgart or Rayo Vallecano? Of course they could.

 

They simply signed better than you and as hard as it is to maybe admit, Mancini was probably a better coach than Howe.

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

Long story short, you cannot put every single signing or every single negative situation down to money. 

 

Ain't reading all that.  Good effort on the formatting though.

[KaKa]

6 minutes ago, Loki679 said:

 

Ain't reading all that.  Good effort on the formatting though.

 

[Froggy]

13 minutes ago, Loki679 said:

Ain't reading all that.  Good effort on the formatting though.

 

It wasn't for you, but thank you Loki sir. 

[nufcjmc]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

It wasn't for you, but thank you Loki sir. 

Assume Froggy you expect the wage bill to rise now your back in the champions league on existing/retained players?

 

Appreciate that some legacy old contracts before the partial takeover may be structured differently and some higher wages players are leaving/will leave but assume most will get a built in bump?

 

No idea how any of this stuff works just odd reports in the media or older ex-pro players revealing clauses and bonuses but would assume your players base wages will rise based on qualifying?

 

 

[Froggy]

17 minutes ago, nufcjmc said:

Assume Froggy you expect the wage bill to rise now your back in the champions league on existing/retained players?

 

Appreciate that some legacy old contracts before the partial takeover may be structured differently and some higher wages players are leaving/will leave but assume most will get a built in bump?

 

No idea how any of this stuff works just odd reports in the media or older ex-pro players revealing clauses and bonuses but would assume your players base wages will rise based on qualifying?

 

Yeah there'll be a bump for a lot of the players. Nobody knows the ins and outs of the clause but it definitely exists.

 

Would imagine INEOS are removing it with every new contract they give out. 

[Steve Charlton]

Chelsea want £120 for Enzo Fernandez,Is he that good for them? 

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Steve Charlton said:

Chelsea want £120 for Enzo Fernandez,Is he that good for them? 

He's the most overrated player I've ever seen. 

[Steve Charlton]

3 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

He's the most overrated player I've ever seen. 

 

Only seen him at last world cup and when he plays us,Thought Bruno was always the better player.

 

I was wondering if he is as important and influential to Chelsea as Bruno is to us

[Joe1984]

7 minutes ago, Steve Charlton said:

Chelsea want £120 for Enzo Fernandez,Is he that good for them? 

£120 is a bargain tbf... 

 

Should be all over that!

[Kilcline]

£120m 

 

Not sure what'd be funnier, that tosser being held to the long contract he was all too willing to sign or Chelsea having to sell at a discount because they'll need to sell to buy (and have to I think under their UEFA settlement)

[KingArthur]

3 hours ago, Froggy said:

 

Not sure where I said he wouldn't get a pay rise. Well aware of how it all works.

Villa can't match the wages that big6 pay. They might be able to do that with 1-2 players, but after that no chance. 

And saying Hojlund is "PSR profit" is surely quite misleading Froggy. I mean if we sold Elanga for 50 million now, he would be PSR profit. Only good for the books but still money lost.

 

 

Edited May 27 by KingArthur

[Viana]

10 hours ago, Steve Charlton said:

Chelsea want £120 for Enzo Fernandez,Is he that good for them? 

He's been good for them, but he's just a very good attacking midfielder. 

 

You're going to have to build around him to get the best out of him. He's not a standard raiser in my opinion.

[Bunk Moreland]

Barca on an early spending spree

[toon25]

Enzo is a horrible little cunt. Don't know why any club would touch him. Toxic character and a billy big bollocks attitude that is in no way justified by his 'talent'

[Mikky]

14 minutes ago, toon25 said:

Enzo is a horrible little cunt. Don't know why any club would touch him. Toxic character and a billy big bollocks attitude that is in no way justified by his 'talent'

Sounds like your stereotypical South American 

[Nucasol]

15 minutes ago, toon25 said:

Enzo is a horrible little cunt. Don't know why any club would touch him. Toxic character and a billy big bollocks attitude that is in no way justified by his 'talent'

Racist prick anarl.

[Fak]

1 minute ago, Mikky said:

Sounds like your stereotypical South American 

 

Both of ours seem cush