Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 I'm never going to be a fan of Rafa's tactical mindset on match day purely because I'm biased towards free flowing attacking football where players are given creative freedom and flair players are accommodated. That has never been, and will never be, Rafa. Beyond that preference for seeing a different style of football, Rafa is absolutely the best manager for the job, and in terms of how we're doing this season I don't think for a second the table or even match day performances reflect how good a job he's doing despite everything Ashley and his entourage have done to damage the club. We've lost 2-1 to Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, and Chelsea, despite having a really poor, imbalanced squad that bears all the hallmarks of having zero strategy to squad building because we always buy the cheapest 5th/6th/7th choice target. At least half the players shouldn't be playing in the PL (not regularly at least), we can barely string passes together and some players struggle to control a football at this level without losing their balance or the ball. And yet we're actually somehow managed to compete with some of the best sides in the league who have fielded teams where one or two of their players have cost more than our entire first team combined. He's performing miracles right now, even though we're playing shit and losing. Get Shelvey back in the team, hope Kenedy finds his feet, get Rondon up to speed, and we'll be OK again. Pretty much my thoughts too. The thing with Rafa is you have to remove match day or those 90 minutes as he does and think about the end result. I know right now that he will keep us up, just mind. That, given the situation, is acceptable and for us, as good as can be expected. Because it’s Rafa though we might finish 10th and beat Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal along the way which we did last season. That’s over achieving though and what he can bring to the table if you like. For me though, one of the reasons I don’t go now outside of how Ashley has us operating and why I will never enjoy his type of football even if it won us trophies is because I’m of the opinion that on a match day at least, with 90 minutes to play for, anything can happen. During that hour and a half, I don’t care about whether our team cost x amount compared to whoever we are playing, about trying to stay in the game so we don’t get thrashed or whether certain players are on the bench so they are fresh or fresher for the following week. I want to escape into a world where I know anything can happen because I’ve seen it. HBA’s wonder goal against Bolton at home, Bellamy and Feyenoord away, Albert’s chip against Man Utd, Tino’s hat-trick against Barcelona and so on. Obviously I’m not daft enough to take my seat at SJP as this team of ours lines up against say Man City and expect us to out pass them, but I don’t want to take my seat and accept we will lose, that even the though of winning is akin to winning the lottery in terms of odds. I just want to see my team have a go, do their best and because it’s 11 bloke’s against 11 blokes anything can happen. If we can’t beat them, then I want to see us play well and our players play well. I wat to see us play good football. With Rafa you don’t get 90 minutes of anything can happen, you do t get that what if even if he had a team of better players. It’s about not losing first and winning second. Every now and again there will be a one off anything can happen game or moment. Istanbul when he was manager of Liverpool or when we thrashed Spurs 5-1. In general though it’s pretty much what we’ve seen so far, the scale of which is adjustable given the quality of players at his disposal. He really has overachieved in terms of the end results. But break down his time here game by game and IMO he has underachieved or we have in many a one off game, in the Championship and last season. We have beaten the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal of course, but I’d rather lose all those games and win all the games against others that aren’t of that quality which we are closer to than the Chelsea’s because we’d have more points and do better. I think we would enjoy it all better too, I enjoyed our wins over the likes of Chelsea and they ended up making up for the draws to Swansea or defeats to Huddersfield, but it’s those games that we can go into as fans during those 90 minutes dreaming of dishing out a sparking, certain players playing a blinder and us putting in the kind of performance that compels you to look forward to the next match purely from a football perspective. That’s why I loved Wenger, Klopp and idolise Kevin Keegan because those 90 minutes were ours or theirs for the taking, to capture fans imigumations and deliver some magic. Me as a fan I have an idealistic utopian way I’d like to see us play and a certain preference for certain flair players and KK gave me my ultimate every week or tried to and then some. Rafa doesn’t and never will and only appeals to my support of NUFC outside of the match day which is us staying up, not getting thrashed or losing a few games on the trot or wasting money on wasters. I care about all that because it’s important to us right now, but I dont like it and because it’s taken over the match day or 90 minutes which is where I get my fix or what I most enjoy and look forward to and what it’s akk about or should be, it’s driving me away from SJP, my club and the game. I’d go back to SJP tomorrow if say KK was our manager even under Ashley and with this team because the football would be better and because he like me, for 90 minutes at least, wouldn't care about net spend, goals against columns, the match a week later, making sure a player is rested to face a team we are more likely to beat and so on and because of that, anything can happen. And as long as there is that chance nothing is impossible and everything possible. That’s why Rafa didn’t win the league at Liverpool, mind it’s also probably why we didn’t under KK as the way we went into those 90 minutes also made it possible for any thing to happen for the other team. I know which style I’d rather watch though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Rafa is the only positive at NUFC right now and we are so lucky that he wants to be here although there's two things I don't agree with him about and that's no subs till after 65 mins and Mitro. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 As if people are having a go at Rafa (the most successful manager we have ever appointed) instead of the one person responsible for this mess. I fucking despair and i don't even know how to respond to them because it's so ridiculous Again I look at performances and the form of players, how we play or how we don’t play. We finished 10th last season, champion, some great wins along the way. Many games however we were piss poor. Same in the Championship and similar to when we finished 5th under Pardew, champion, some great wins along the way as well. But piss poor performances at times and some shitty results. It’s Pardew though. With Rafa I expect better and will probably be more critical of him when it comes to performances and players’ form, not in terms of the end results because he has done a great job and overachieved. But match day certainly, it’s dire football in the main and again, I’d rather us play like we did against Chelsea or Man Utd or Arsenal last season against the Swanseas and Huddersfields because we’d pick up more points and wouldn’t have to hinge our season on beating some of the big teams to give us an injection of hope or momentum. I’d like to see us get on the ball more and be more adventurous, I think against many teams outside of the big teams we would prosper. Today we did so many things right in the first half but we didn’t commit men forward and get bodies in the box. Our full-backs rarely supported or overlapped. It’s too cagey, too static and on the eye, fucking awful to watch and has been since he took over 9/10. Oh and you can question Rafa and his tactics and so on without it meaning you hate the bloke, want him sacked or think he’s doing a bad job. He’s doing a fucking great job better than anyone else would in terms of end results and we are lucky to have him. He’s far too good for us and having him manage this team is like having Lewis Hamilton competing in formula 1 in a Fiat. Match day though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoot Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Rafa haters have come out to play on FB. Literally no time at all for these IDIOTS! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Wouldn't say he's performing miracles, but he's far from the main problem. His standing in world football and his attendance at these prestigious UEFA managerial conventions says a lot, he'd have hundreds of better options if he wanted to, although his tactics, transfers and discarding of good players is very questionable. But at least he has the club's best interests at heart, which gets him a pass when he makes these frustrating decisions. It's the polar opposite of Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonArmy1892 Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Genuinley think Rafa could win us a trophy and we'd still have some fans saying "Yea but we were boring weren't we" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Also turns out to be the correct perspective an all, like usual I don't think you'll find many people that disagree with him being too good for the club in it's current state. Although we won't get into your obsessive wish for him to leave. It's just boring as shit; you're near enough just copy and pasting the same message in here every day FFS. Like a broken record, it's tedious as fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 The squad is just shite, i'm sorry that's all there is to it. I'm struggling to find teams in the Premier who I would be confident of beating, Leicester and Palace coming up and they are better than us man for man as well. Worse than last season? When similarly some people couldn’t see a worse squad in the big bad PL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 The squad is just shite, i'm sorry that's all there is to it. I'm struggling to find teams in the Premier who I would be confident of beating, Leicester and Palace coming up and they are better than us man for man as well. Worse than last season? When similarly some people couldn’t see a worse squad in the big bad PL. Others have strengthened. We’ve stood still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 All of our issues are to do with our dear owner, but I feel Rafa is making small mistakes here and there due to probably not caring as much as he would if he were fully committed and because of the circus going on at the club. i think people confuse "mistakes" with rafa's overall view of the season which he quite clearly prioritises over in game management at any given point what was the mistake he made yesterday out of interest, not making subs right after the first goal went in? this happens a hell of a lot with rafa, when teams get the upper hand he trusts his plan and what the team have done in training to get through it and get them back into it...man city is a good example of that after going behind, should he have reacted when they scored with subs then to change the game? yesterday dubs wasn't massively on his game for a change and we conceded two fairly quickly, at that point he's looking at shelvey and rondon not considering it worth the risk of them missing palace i'm not sure any "mistakes" were made yesterday as such...possibly hayden given how poor he was but that'll be a training thing, maybe ki had been shite all week or something the margins point someone else made is a very good one as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 All of our issues are to do with our dear owner, but I feel Rafa is making small mistakes here and there due to probably not caring as much as he would if he were fully committed and because of the circus going on at the club. i think people confuse "mistakes" with rafa's overall view of the season which he quite clearly prioritises over in game management at any given point what was the mistake he made yesterday out of interest, not making subs right after the first goal went in? this happens a hell of a lot with rafa, when teams get the upper hand he trusts his plan and what the team have done in training to get through it and get them back into it...man city is a good example of that after going behind, should he have reacted when they scored with subs then to change the game? yesterday dubs wasn't massively on his game for a change and we conceded two fairly quickly, at that point he's looking at shelvey and rondon not considering it worth the risk of them missing palace i'm not sure any "mistakes" were made yesterday as such...possibly hayden given how poor he was but that'll be a training thing, maybe ki had been shite all week or something the margins point someone else made is a very good one as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altamullan Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 The squad is just shite, i'm sorry that's all there is to it. I'm struggling to find teams in the Premier who I would be confident of beating, Leicester and Palace coming up and they are better than us man for man as well. Worse than last season? When similarly some people couldn’t see a worse squad in the big bad PL. Others have strengthened. We’ve stood still. No, we don’t have the squad we would all want, but we strengthened/added needed options. Don’t see us as relatively weaker. As ever, depends how well managers can get a tune out of their ‘instruments’ and conduct/create a symphony. Some who have spent much more than us will have all the gear and no idea, personally I think we will be ok, if mid-table mediocrity classed as ok. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Also turns out to be the correct perspective an all, like usual I don't think you'll find many people that disagree with him being too good for the club in it's current state. Although we won't get into your obsessive wish for him to leave. It's just boring as shit; you're near enough just copy and pasting the same message in here every day FFS. Like a broken record, it's tedious as fuck. It's like having NE5 back. Getting close to ruining the forum with the same shit in every thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 So dude near me was literally on his feet in the second half shout at Rafa to change things... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Genuinley think Rafa could win us a trophy and we'd still have some fans saying "Yea but we were boring weren't we" Were going to win fuck all - ever. This I (and many other NUFC supporters i'd guess....) have accepted. So, a bit entertainment now and again shouldn't be too much to ask. I wonder if we are seeing players not happy with the style they are being asked to play? Our captain was dropped (ankle injury...hmmm) for a disagreement apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Also turns out to be the correct perspective an all, like usual Funny considering this is two posts after you've mentioned how you now think you're going to lose the two bets you made based on your usual correct perspective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 fit enough for bench fit to start .Cech was crapping himself but we didnt really try to put him under pressure and that team worries me that we are just so weak and easy to take possession from and give it away so cheaply ,yedlin never really utilized effectively . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitely Content Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 The squad is just shite, i'm sorry that's all there is to it. I'm struggling to find teams in the Premier who I would be confident of beating, Leicester and Palace coming up and they are better than us man for man as well. Worse than last season? When similarly some people couldn’t see a worse squad in the big bad PL. Others have strengthened. We’ve stood still. No, we don’t have the squad we would all want, but we strengthened/added needed options. Don’t see us as relatively weaker. As ever, depends how well managers can get a tune out of their ‘instruments’ and conduct/create a symphony. Some who have spent much more than us will have all the gear and no idea, personally I think we will be ok, if mid-table mediocrity classed as ok. Some sense and reason, at last Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 For me it feels like we're a club with no heart this season. Rafa will do his best but from the very top of the club the apathy, carelessness and vindictiveness is killing the team, killing any hope. We may have a team to stay up but right now we have a team that doesn't look like it can stay up, we just look like a club that will go down. It's the feel around the club, not because of the manager or players, but because we're run by thick as mince idiots who can't see what's happening right in front of them, for the third fucking time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I think it's very debatable whether we are stronger than last season. Lots of questions marks over a number of the summer signings. We have beeneft behind though by 2 of the promotion clubs imo and few others that finished below us last season. Defensively I think we look far worse than last season, lejeune is a huge miss. All well and good and keep goal difference down but we've conceded twice in every game minus the caridff match despite putting at tactics to keep it at as tight as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 For me it feels like we're a club with no heart this season. Rafa will do his best but from the very top of the club the apathy, carelessness and vindictiveness is killing the team, killing any hope. may be something in this i guess, last season was about exceeding expectations and so forth this season we've deliberately had the chair kicked out from under us by ashley, has probably had an impact on everyone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 My issue with Rafa always has been that we look alright when level or leading a match, but often look absolutely stunned and unable to reach when going a goal down, particularly at home. When the pressure is really on us to force the issue and get back into a match, we don't seem to have the know how or flexibility to be ever so slightly more gung-ho. This was even the case in the Championship I thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 For me it feels like we're a club with no heart this season. Rafa will do his best but from the very top of the club the apathy, carelessness and vindictiveness is killing the team, killing any hope. may be something in this i guess, last season was about exceeding expectations and so forth this season we've deliberately had the chair kicked out from under us by ashley, has probably had an impact on everyone Aye, last season was more of an unknown as we'd just come up (again) but actively sabotaging your own club this season really is peak Ashley, then again he's been doing it for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 I'm barely following it now, just waiting for a fixture we might have a chance in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Have to admit I do not expect us to win anything in my lifetime. Zero chance of winning the league and any European competitions, way beyond us save for a huge takeover by an Amazon type gazzilionnaire investor. We do not take the domestic cups seriously so all in all can't see us winning owt. (this is the one thing we could change relatively easily) Doesn't matter a jot to me though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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