Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[loki679]

At what point does the answer to the question 'Do you want to be Leeds or Portsmouth?' become 'Yes'?

 

Fucking used as harbingers of doom for the last decade and outspending us now

[Thomson Mouse]

Why aren’t these Liverpool fans coming ‘in peace’? I thought all opposition fans did that.

[The College Dropout]

In practical terms, the bottom 6 or so are absolutely woeful.

 

I think 32 points might keep you up this year. Maybe slightly less. Because so many teams are so far behind the rest, staying up losses some of its magic. As Rafa even said, it's a case of teams being worse than you than the team being any good.

[Stottie]

I don't want to get sucked into this discussion, but our average attendance and the number of times our games are televised should be enough to justify any small discrepancy in our favour regarding wages vs. Brighton and Huddersfield. We may have a smaller commercial revenue but that is because someone plastered Sports Direct all over the place and didn't pay for it.

[triggs]

Having to go fall back on the wage bill as some sort of proof that "it's not really remarkable if Rafa doesn't get backed and keeps us up".  Weird.

Well no, the reason its not remarkable is because we’ve won two games out of twelve and we’re in 14th. Wage bill is the best indicator of success in football

[DJ_NUFC]

Ashley's made everyone into accountants. "The KPI's indicate this level of success is acceptable based on the wage to cocksize ratio in comparison to other clubs."

[Guest firetotheworks]

Having to go fall back on the wage bill as some sort of proof that "it's not really remarkable if Rafa doesn't get backed and keeps us up".  Weird.

Well no, the reason its not remarkable is because we’ve won two games out of twelve and we’re in 14th. Wage bill is the best indicator of success in football

 

Probably trophies and points tbh, but churlishness aside, if you're comfortable with including a football business outlier like NUFC in what stat indicates what, which I wouldn't be, our wage bill's neither significantly higher than our relegation rivals, nor does it make up for the massive deficit in transfer spending between other clubs and us.

[triggs]

Having to go fall back on the wage bill as some sort of proof that "it's not really remarkable if Rafa doesn't get backed and keeps us up".  Weird.

Well no, the reason its not remarkable is because we’ve won two games out of twelve and we’re in 14th. Wage bill is the best indicator of success in football

 

Probably trophies and points tbh, but churlishness aside, if you're comfortable with including a football business outlier like NUFC in what stat indicates what, which I wouldn't be, our wage bill's neither significantly higher than our relegation rivals, nor does it make up for the massive deficit in transfer spending between other clubs and us.

I shouldn't have bothered mentioning wage bill, although it is the biggest financial indicator of where you will finish. My main point is that its not remarkable if we stay up considering we are currently in 14th when we've got 9 points from 12 games

[Guest firetotheworks]

Having to go fall back on the wage bill as some sort of proof that "it's not really remarkable if Rafa doesn't get backed and keeps us up".  Weird.

Well no, the reason its not remarkable is because we’ve won two games out of twelve and we’re in 14th. Wage bill is the best indicator of success in football

 

Probably trophies and points tbh, but churlishness aside, if you're comfortable with including a football business outlier like NUFC in what stat indicates what, which I wouldn't be, our wage bill's neither significantly higher than our relegation rivals, nor does it make up for the massive deficit in transfer spending between other clubs and us.

I shouldn't have bothered mentioning wage bill, although it is the biggest financial indicator of where you will finish. My main point is that its not remarkable if we stay up considering we are currently in 14th when we've got 9 points from 12 games

 

It's not an indicator that I'd apply to NUFC for a number of reasons, but fair enough. I think the remarkable bit is probably more to do with us having predominantly the same squad assembled to get out of the Championship 2 years ago. I think it's easy to take that for granted and think it's not that big a deal purely because of what Rafa's already achieved with it, but when I watch those players I see generally poor quality individuals in an effective system.

[Shearergol]

Having to go fall back on the wage bill as some sort of proof that "it's not really remarkable if Rafa doesn't get backed and keeps us up".  Weird.

Well no, the reason its not remarkable is because we’ve won two games out of twelve and we’re in 14th. Wage bill is the best indicator of success in football

 

Probably trophies and points tbh, but churlishness aside, if you're comfortable with including a football business outlier like NUFC in what stat indicates what, which I wouldn't be, our wage bill's neither significantly higher than our relegation rivals, nor does it make up for the massive deficit in transfer spending between other clubs and us.

I shouldn't have bothered mentioning wage bill, although it is the biggest financial indicator of where you will finish. My main point is that its not remarkable if we stay up considering we are currently in 14th when we've got 9 points from 12 games

 

Like spurs?

[The College Dropout]

Having to go fall back on the wage bill as some sort of proof that "it's not really remarkable if Rafa doesn't get backed and keeps us up".  Weird.

Well no, the reason its not remarkable is because we’ve won two games out of twelve and we’re in 14th. Wage bill is the best indicator of success in football

 

Probably trophies and points tbh, but churlishness aside, if you're comfortable with including a football business outlier like NUFC in what stat indicates what, which I wouldn't be, our wage bill's neither significantly higher than our relegation rivals, nor does it make up for the massive deficit in transfer spending between other clubs and us.

I shouldn't have bothered mentioning wage bill, although it is the biggest financial indicator of where you will finish. My main point is that its not remarkable if we stay up considering we are currently in 14th when we've got 9 points from 12 games

 

Like spurs?

 

That's an anomaly. They're the best run club in the division. He's right, wages are the best indication of where a club will finish more or less.

 

But wages + transfer we'll be bottom 5. And more importantly, we haven't improved. Some of our wages will be going on the likes of Jack Colback.

[mrmojorisin75]

i just don't know why you'd try to actively diminish the achievement in what he is doing; let's take wages/fees aside then he's actively undermined at every turn, 2 *massive* examples

 

asked for players in early in the summer to get prepped - barely got any and the ones he did get came really late, fucked the start of the season

has been asking to improve training and medical facilities for 3 years - afaik has got nada yet we're probably as good on injuries as i can remember in my entire life and the players are improving week on week still

 

that's to say nothing of the massive dint in morale ashley's actions made on the players themselves clearly, both in their own bonus issue and the fact they knew he'd undermined everyone and gone against everything he said he would do in support of the manager

 

he's doing a fucking ridiculous job, it doesn matter that cardiff are shite and fulham have imploded man...the fact he's keeping us afloat all on his own while ashley has his hands tied behind his back and wearing concrete boots should be seen for what it is

 

 

[STM]

I think he will sign a new contract. There seems to have been a tone change in recent weeks.

[Guest]

They’d probably announce it before the Wolves game for shits and giggles.

[triggs]

i just don't know why you'd try to actively diminish the achievement in what he is doing; let's take wages/fees aside then he's actively undermined at every turn, 2 *massive* examples

 

asked for players in early in the summer to get prepped - barely got any and the ones he did get came really late, f***ed the start of the season

has been asking to improve training and medical facilities for 3 years - afaik has got nada yet we're probably as good on injuries as i can remember in my entire life and the players are improving week on week still

 

that's to say nothing of the massive dint in morale ashley's actions made on the players themselves clearly, both in their own bonus issue and the fact they knew he'd undermined everyone and gone against everything he said he would do in support of the manager

 

he's doing a f***ing ridiculous job, it doesn matter that cardiff are s**** and fulham have imploded man...the fact he's keeping us afloat all on his own while ashley has his hands tied behind his back and wearing concrete boots should be seen for what it is

It obviously does matter how other teams are doing. Winning 2 games out of 12(and losing in the cup to a championship team) is not a ridiculously good job no matter what the team was or what is happening in the background. He did a brilliant job last season and I’m confident by the end of the season we’ll be very comfortable again but he has not done a brilliant job so far this season.

[Wilson]

imo he's done what can be expected, IE not very much given the start of season fixture list. We expected a couple of better results off some teams, but even then....those teams had done more than stand still in the summer.

 

 

[Astroblack]

Goal difference is incredible seeing as we've faced Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and Man Utd. Teams we've beat are in the top half of the league. The only result that makes me go 'ugh' is the one against Brighton. Apart from that, we've looked solid. I think I voted 10 a month ago in the Relegationometer and that was a huge overreaction.

[Wilson]

Goal difference is incredible seeing as we've faced Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and Man Utd.

 

Should be having a go!!

[ToonArmy1892]

Goal difference is incredible seeing as we've faced Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City and Man Utd. Teams we've beat are in the top half of the league. The only result that makes me go 'ugh' is the one against Brighton. Apart from that, we've looked solid. I think I voted 10 a month ago in the Relegationometer and that was a huge overreaction.

 

Yea, the only really bad result so far is the Brighton game.

 

Leicester, but they are alot better than us.

[mrmojorisin75]

i just don't know why you'd try to actively diminish the achievement in what he is doing; let's take wages/fees aside then he's actively undermined at every turn, 2 *massive* examples

 

asked for players in early in the summer to get prepped - barely got any and the ones he did get came really late, f***ed the start of the season

has been asking to improve training and medical facilities for 3 years - afaik has got nada yet we're probably as good on injuries as i can remember in my entire life and the players are improving week on week still

 

that's to say nothing of the massive dint in morale ashley's actions made on the players themselves clearly, both in their own bonus issue and the fact they knew he'd undermined everyone and gone against everything he said he would do in support of the manager

 

he's doing a f***ing ridiculous job, it doesn matter that cardiff are s**** and fulham have imploded man...the fact he's keeping us afloat all on his own while ashley has his hands tied behind his back and wearing concrete boots should be seen for what it is

It obviously does matter how other teams are doing. Winning 2 games out of 12(and losing in the cup to a championship team) is not a ridiculously good job no matter what the team was or what is happening in the background. He did a brilliant job last season and I’m confident by the end of the season we’ll be very comfortable again but he has not done a brilliant job so far this season.

 

or you are massively underestimating the challenges he faces to get us remotely competitive in this division

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

i just don't know why you'd try to actively diminish the achievement in what he is doing; let's take wages/fees aside then he's actively undermined at every turn, 2 *massive* examples

 

asked for players in early in the summer to get prepped - barely got any and the ones he did get came really late, f***ed the start of the season

has been asking to improve training and medical facilities for 3 years - afaik has got nada yet we're probably as good on injuries as i can remember in my entire life and the players are improving week on week still

 

that's to say nothing of the massive dint in morale ashley's actions made on the players themselves clearly, both in their own bonus issue and the fact they knew he'd undermined everyone and gone against everything he said he would do in support of the manager

 

he's doing a f***ing ridiculous job, it doesn matter that cardiff are s**** and fulham have imploded man...the fact he's keeping us afloat all on his own while ashley has his hands tied behind his back and wearing concrete boots should be seen for what it is

It obviously does matter how other teams are doing. Winning 2 games out of 12(and losing in the cup to a championship team) is not a ridiculously good job no matter what the team was or what is happening in the background. He did a brilliant job last season and I’m confident by the end of the season we’ll be very comfortable again but he has not done a brilliant job so far this season.

Exactly this, it seems like hes doing a cracking job in turning around our fortunes at the moment but everything good doesn't automatically negate how clueless we looked for the first 10 games, abysmal performances not just unlucky ones, he could and should have done better, I just don't get how people can be so blinkered that they can give him all the praise in the world for winning 2 games in a row but not acknowledge he had a very poor start to the season with no wins in 11 including the cup.

 

It's ok to point to lack of investment which is of course valid, but surely the last two games if anything has shown the type of football we are capable of WITH the players we HAVE.

[Guest firetotheworks]

i just don't know why you'd try to actively diminish the achievement in what he is doing; let's take wages/fees aside then he's actively undermined at every turn, 2 *massive* examples

 

asked for players in early in the summer to get prepped - barely got any and the ones he did get came really late, f***ed the start of the season

has been asking to improve training and medical facilities for 3 years - afaik has got nada yet we're probably as good on injuries as i can remember in my entire life and the players are improving week on week still

 

that's to say nothing of the massive dint in morale ashley's actions made on the players themselves clearly, both in their own bonus issue and the fact they knew he'd undermined everyone and gone against everything he said he would do in support of the manager

 

he's doing a f***ing ridiculous job, it doesn matter that cardiff are s**** and fulham have imploded man...the fact he's keeping us afloat all on his own while ashley has his hands tied behind his back and wearing concrete boots should be seen for what it is

It obviously does matter how other teams are doing. Winning 2 games out of 12(and losing in the cup to a championship team) is not a ridiculously good job no matter what the team was or what is happening in the background. He did a brilliant job last season and I’m confident by the end of the season we’ll be very comfortable again but he has not done a brilliant job so far this season.

Exactly this, it seems like hes doing a cracking job in turning around our fortunes at the moment but everything good doesn't automatically negate how clueless we looked for the first 10 games, abysmal performances not just unlucky ones, he could and should have done better, I just don't get how people can be so blinkered that they can give him all the praise in the world for winning 2 games in a row but not acknowledge he had a very poor start to the season with no wins in 11 including the cup.

 

You don't get it because you've completely ignored context.

[Tiotes Witch Doctor]

He could take us down with no more wins for the rest of the season and certain sections of fans wouldn't have him to take a share of the blame, and I honestly believe that.

 

Edit: Before people start crying, I'm delighted with how he seems to be turning around our fortunes, despite my criticisms I think he is the right man for the job and have never even considered wanting him to leave, just for him to do better with what he has which hopefully this is the start of.

[Guest firetotheworks]

You're just saying things now.

 

Time and time again you bring up our losing streak but you always fail to mention that the streak includes matches  after we'd assured safety and ignore who the opposition was in those matches. I doubt you'd find as many people defending him if we'd played predominantly terrible teams, but we played 6 of the top 7 in that 10. All with far and away the least invested in PL side, with predominantly the same squad assembled to get out of the Championship.

 

Context matters but you always ignore it.

[ToonArmy1892]

He could take us down with no more wins for the rest of the season and certain sections of fans wouldn't have him to take a share of the blame, and I honestly believe that.

 

No shit, because this squad should be relegated.

 

I had a look at RAWK, one of their fans said keeping us up this season would be his best achievement so far in his career, and he won them the Champions League!