Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Away Toon]

The problem with Rafa is simple in that he wants a project with him being in control of all transfers and being the de facto sporting director. Clubs no longer want to do this as when it all goes to shit there’s nothing left to build on.

[LiquidAK]

I watched most of our games under Rafa. The idea that the football was "soul destroying" is complete bullshit. It was pragmatic and well organised and frankly massively fucking refreshing after McClaren. We went into every game looking like we had a plan, it was great. You don't have to be playing free-flowing tiki-taka to be an enjoyable watch, and defensively sound =/= shit. It's revisionist history.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

Kenedy had some decent games but his performance overall wasn't particularly good. And it definitely felt at the time it was the best he'd performed in any season since he first joined Chelsea. He was hardly some amazing asset that was poorly done by. He was afforded many chances. The fact we're even talking about Kenedy kind of proves the point to me. Some distinctly average loanee with no proven history. We spent what we'd gained in sales, of course we absolutely couldnt dream of spending more, and there was one flop in Muto but what kind of striker would you expect for 9.5m even back then. Rondon was a great loan. 

 

The second half of that season we were mint and ripe for kicking on, but of course that was never going to be entertained by Fat cunt. Rafa wasn't asking for much and he was offered even less, any kind of manager worth their salt would have walked away from the situation. Frustrating as fuck too because in 19/20 so many other PL teams were bang average and had we continued on the path we'd ended the previous season we'd have looked really good. But instead we completely under performed with a league position gifted to us.

To deny Rafa the praise he rightly deserves for his time here is mental to me and any argument to the counter is completely ignoring vast swathes of context. 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Super Duper Branko Strupar

[UncleBingo]

8 minutes ago, LiquidAK said:

I watched most of our games under Rafa. The idea that the football was "soul destroying" is complete bullshit. It was pragmatic and well organised and frankly massively fucking refreshing after McClaren. We went into every game looking like we had a plan, it was great. You don't have to be playing free-flowing tiki-taka to be an enjoyable watch, and defensively sound =/= shit. It's revisionist history.

100% this.

 

People also forget that we were very decent to watch once he was allowed to spend some decent money on Almiron. We were definitely on an upward trajectory under him as well.

[rgk_lfc]

1 hour ago, Away Toon said:

The problem with Rafa is simple in that he wants a project with him being in control of all transfers and being the de facto sporting director. Clubs no longer want to do this as when it all goes to shit there’s nothing left to build on.

 

Love Rafa the manager and respect Rafa the person even more. But this is an important aspect that is going to deny him jobs. Everywhere he goes he demands 100% control. Even if signs the contract to a club with a DOF, within six months it becomes either back him or back me. And more than often, this gets played out in the press, and one of them has to leave. This happens almost everywhere he goes including Everton. I am betting this is an important reason why someone like Marsch is getting more interviews than him. 

 

[Kid Icarus]

Rafa single-handedly made me properly appreciate and then eventually enjoy watching defending. Something that I thought would be impossible for the previous 20ish years of watching football. 

[cubaricho]

9 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

Love Rafa the manager and respect Rafa the person even more. But this is an important aspect that is going to deny him jobs. Everywhere he goes he demands 100% control. Even if signs the contract to a club with a DOF, within six months it becomes either back him or back me. And more than often, this gets played out in the press, and one of them has to leave. This happens almost everywhere he goes including Everton. I am betting this is an important reason why someone like Marsch is getting more interviews than him. 

 

This is especially pertinent in this day and age too with how clubs are being run. It’s not the 00s anymore. Clubs have moved on from the SAF type of managers of which Rafa is in the same mould. It’s now a full team of highly trained and specialized people. 

[Danh1]

58 minutes ago, cubaricho said:

This is especially pertinent in this day and age too with how clubs are being run. It’s not the 00s anymore. Clubs have moved on from the SAF type of managers of which Rafa is in the same mould. It’s now a full team of highly trained and specialized people. 

Makes me wonder if Rafa is definitely who we would have went for had he been available after the takeover. Ashworth wouldn’t be here if Rafa was you’d think. 

[KaKa]

4 hours ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

Love Rafa the manager and respect Rafa the person even more. But this is an important aspect that is going to deny him jobs. Everywhere he goes he demands 100% control. Even if signs the contract to a club with a DOF, within six months it becomes either back him or back me. And more than often, this gets played out in the press, and one of them has to leave. This happens almost everywhere he goes including Everton. I am betting this is an important reason why someone like Marsch is getting more interviews than him. 

 

 

Most club owners are clearly complete morons then, IMO.

 

Looking at Rafa's record of not only finding great value in the market, but also managing to get the best out of pretty mediocre players, I don't see why you wouldn't afford him the opportunity to just get on with things.

 

He's one of the few that actually can handle that level of control and do well with  it. Just let him bring in his own recruitment people that he wants to work closely with and get out of his way.

[Geordie Ahmed]

10 hours ago, magvicar said:

We all have our opinions and I respect yours but I simply did not enjoy his time at Newcastle and I was genuinely happy to see him leave.

I'm not too sure about what you mean in him contacting Staveley.

Did that happiness increase or decrease once Steve Bruce was appointed?

[Geordie Ahmed]

9 hours ago, magvicar said:

Look at the money he spent for the time he was here. It was a decent amount and he could've done much better if he used players better and bought better.

 

Let's look at his final season with us and see what players he had at his disposal.

 

We had some decent players at the time which weren't properly used in my opinion. 

 

He had a net spend of minus £11m you absolute weapon 

[Geordie Ahmed]

I get people have opinions and all that but quite frankly any Newcastle fan that has any ill will or negative feelings towards Rafa is quite frankly a doylem 

 

What he's done since in terms of jobs is irrelevant, he can get another 5 jobs and do shite in all of them and I would still adore the guy as it doesn't change what he did for us

 

I could write paragraph after paragraph but to keep it short I would describe his time here as he was sent to a sword fight but only given a toothpick 

[rgk_lfc]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

Most club owners are clearly complete morons then, IMO.

 

Looking at Rafa's record of not only finding great value in the market, but also managing to get the best out of pretty mediocre players, I don't see why you wouldn't afford him the opportunity to just get on with things.

 

He's one of the few that actually can handle that level of control and do well with  it. Just let him bring in his own recruitment people that he wants to work closely with and get out of his way.

 

This is the part I don't like about him. The folks he surrounds himself with, like Owen Brown, aren't exactly the most distinguished scouts. Rafa's record is good, but you can't beat specialized folks running the footballing side of things.  As much as I respect the guy, I don't want to go back to the one person who controls everything model. The way most clubs operate nowadays with Ashworth, Edwards, and their type being in charge of transfers, scouting, and having youth setup independent of the manager makes a lot of sense. 

 

It took us three to four years after he left to wean ourselves of his legacy and move in a different direction, as he practically had control of everything. When Klopp, Howe, or Pep leave, the disruption to other aspects of the club will be minimal. 

[r0cafella]

When I think about Rafa I see two sides. 
 

The first side is the undeniable ability to get a lot of out of a little, this is something he’s down time and time again. 
 

the other side is the unrelenting ambition he has, he will make something out of nothing but the cost will be the ambition he has needs to be realised so he will require resources and control as he’s a born winner. 
 

Unfortunately for Rafa they day of the “manager” is over and he will always be unlikely to get it all his own way nowadays. The cost of giving him control as Rgk has said is the lack of succession planning his system creates. 

[KaKa]

7 minutes ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

This is the part I don't like about him. The folks he surrounds himself with, like Owen Brown, aren't exactly the most distinguished scouts. Rafa's record is good, but you can't beat specialized folks running the footballing side of things.  As much as I respect the guy, I don't want to go back to the one person who controls everything model. The way most clubs operate nowadays with Ashworth, Edwards, and their type being in charge of transfers, scouting, and having youth setup independent of the manager makes a lot of sense. 

 

It took us three to four years after he left to wean ourselves of his legacy and move in a different direction, as he practically had control of everything. When Klopp, Howe, or Pep leave, the disruption to other aspects of the club will be minimal. 

 

It's a fair point. Especially for clubs that know what they're doing as far as actually putting together a viable setup.

 

However, I think there are a lot of clubs that could benefit from a manager like Rafa still. West Ham and Leicester don't seem to have that kind of setup but have spent a decent amount of money, which Rafa would have done much better with in those circumstances IMO.

 

 

[r0cafella]

39 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

It's a fair point. Especially for clubs that know what they're doing as far as actually putting together a viable setup.

 

However, I think there are a lot of clubs that could benefit from a manager like Rafa still. West Ham and Leicester don't seem to have that kind of setup but have spent a decent amount of money, which Rafa would have done much better with in those circumstances IMO.

 

 

Any team can benefit from Rafa but the trade offs also have to be considered. 

[kingxlnc]

1 hour ago, KaKa said:

 

It's a fair point. Especially for clubs that know what they're doing as far as actually putting together a viable setup.

 

However, I think there are a lot of clubs that could benefit from a manager like Rafa still. West Ham and Leicester don't seem to have that kind of setup but have spent a decent amount of money, which Rafa would have done much better with in those circumstances IMO.

 

 

Yes definitely a West Ham, they've let old skool Moyes have a heck of a lot of control - Rafa would be doing way better with the kind of players they have. 

 

This is why I previously mentioned Forest as a good fit - a city who would appreciate him and a big club trying to get back to glory days, decent players but need a system to be moulded. They love Cooper though so it may be a tough act to follow. We loved him as we had Pardew, Carver, McClaren so we could recognise greatness. But if your previous manager is popular (e.g. Everton) then it's a tough one. 

 

Sad to see his reputation in tatters though as it's clear he is a great man and manager. Poor choice of jobs has come back to haunt him. Him and Mourinho were very similar as managers, but Mourniho has insisted on only top clubs who can have a chance of silverware. It's kept him relatively undamaged. 

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

Yes definitely a West Ham, they've let old skool Moyes have a heck of a lot of control - Rafa would be doing way better with the kind of players they have. 

 

This is why I previously mentioned Forest as a good fit - a city who would appreciate him and a big club trying to get back to glory days, decent players but need a system to be moulded. They love Cooper though so it may be a tough act to follow. We loved him as we had Pardew, Carver, McClaren so we could recognise greatness. But if your previous manager is popular (e.g. Everton) then it's a tough one. 

 

Sad to see his reputation in tatters though as it's clear he is a great man and manager. Poor choice of jobs has come back to haunt him. Him and Mourinho were very similar as managers, but Mourniho has insisted on only top clubs who can have a chance of silverware. It's kept him relatively undamaged. 

 

100% agree with you.

 

Weirdly enough I've always respected Rafa's willingness to take even the jobs that weren't at top clubs, I think it's a sign of how much belief he has in his ability. However, he has proved to be really unfortunate due to us having a lunatic in Mike Ashley when he was here, and then the decision to go to Everton despite the uproar was just a terrible move.

[Optimistic Nut]

Speaking of Rafa, had no idea Rondon had joined River Plate until I searched him there.

[cubaricho]

3 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Most club owners are clearly complete morons then, IMO.

 

Looking at Rafa's record of not only finding great value in the market, but also managing to get the best out of pretty mediocre players, I don't see why you wouldn't afford him the opportunity to just get on with things.

 

He's one of the few that actually can handle that level of control and do well with  it. Just let him bring in his own recruitment people that he wants to work closely with and get out of his way.

This just isn’t how it’s done anymore at the top level, unfortunately. Rafa has moved into dinosaur territory because he didn’t adapt. 
 

I hope he can find something again though. He’s one of my all time favorite Newcastle managers and gave me hope when nothing else could. 

[Darth Crooks]

I still close my eyes - see him putting those glasses post win into his top pocket and dreaming of that pocket as my sphincter.

 

[KaKa]

38 minutes ago, cubaricho said:

This just isn’t how it’s done anymore at the top level, unfortunately. Rafa has moved into dinosaur territory because he didn’t adapt. 
 

I hope he can find something again though. He’s one of my all time favorite Newcastle managers and gave me hope when nothing else could. 

 

Having a DOF structure doesn't guarantee anything man. A lot of clubs are just jumping on the bandwagon and still making a mess of things. Everton have  blown a bunch of money on terrible signings and the wrong managers using the structure.

 

There are still a few managers that I would have with greater responsibilities ahead of some of the clowns being given these DOF positions.

[Gaztoon]

Didn't he also introduce the club to staveley and Co.. or did I just make that up ?

[Gawalls]

2 hours ago, rgk_lfc said:

 

This is the part I don't like about him. The folks he surrounds himself with, like Owen Brown, aren't exactly the most distinguished scouts. Rafa's record is good, but you can't beat specialized folks running the footballing side of things.  As much as I respect the guy, I don't want to go back to the one person who controls everything model. The way most clubs operate nowadays with Ashworth, Edwards, and their type being in charge of transfers, scouting, and having youth setup independent of the manager makes a lot of sense. 

 

It took us three to four years after he left to wean ourselves of his legacy and move in a different direction, as he practically had control of everything. When Klopp, Howe, or Pep leave, the disruption to other aspects of the club will be minimal. 

Brighton are a classic example of this - they lost potter and ashworth and haven’t even missed them.

[Gawalls]

1 hour ago, cubaricho said:

This just isn’t how it’s done anymore at the top level, unfortunately. Rafa has moved into dinosaur territory because he didn’t adapt. 
 

I hope he can find something again though. He’s one of my all time favorite Newcastle managers and gave me hope when nothing else could. 

One of your all time favourite managers - higher than keegan and robson?