Steve Brute

[AyeDubbleYoo]

We have no chance of a trophy.

[TBG]

Lovely day out without the missus though.

[loki679]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

[Chris_R]

We have no chance of a trophy.

 

This.

 

We're not capable of winning the league and the club actively try to get out of the cups as soon as possible as the board believe they're a distraction.

 

To suggest that our 0% chance of winning a cup is somehow more alluring than our 0% chance of winning the league is preposterous.

 

Bruce has played down our ambitions as a club in the league in order to reduce fan expectation, whilst simultaneously throwing false hope to the fans about a cup run which, when looked at rationally, we know simply won't happen because the powers that be won't allow it.

[Hhtoon]

And what’s worse is some people are accepting the self-defeating patter and parroting the message further

 

It's not self-defeating. Its a fact that 15 or so teams have to deal with.

 

Fuck that shit.

 

BTW we should be competing with Spurs, in fact we should be bigger and better than them.

 

Well obviously. How do you propose Bruce resolves that with what he has?

 

So much to criticise him for, that comment is not one of them.

[TRon]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

I think it's a shit ambition to go for a cup as it's more down to luck than anything else. It's like having an ambition to win the lottery. I'd much rather he said we are aiming to be top 10 at least.

[Interpolic]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

Why are you carrying on like you've not been around watching the situation intently for the last 12 years Ashley has been here?

 

It's all about context rather than taking his quotes at face value.  I've seen very similar quotes from Ashley and Pardew down the years but then we never even try in the cups, or ever have a vaguely exciting league season as the likes of Wolves have recently without breaking the top 6.

 

I disagree with the quotes because there's no need to talk us down versus other clubs and I don't believe him regarding the cups.

[Chris_R]

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

I disagree with it.

 

You just don't need to say the first bit. Why downplay the club? By saying something obvious yet indisputable like "we can't compete with Man City", what he's tacitly alluding to is that we can only expect to try to avoid relegation. He's not saying we'll be just behind Man City in a UEFA cup spot. His unsaid message is "expect a long hard season in the league."

 

A good manager would say we want to build on what we did last year, to improve our league position. To try to break into the top 10. You don't do that by running us down. Rafa would doubtles say we beat Man City last season and so with the new signings we've made we should fear nobody this year. Obviously we're still not going to win the league, but you simply don't need to say that. It adds nothing unless the intent is to downplay the club via an implicit undertone.

 

As for the cup thing, well we all know our cup participation will be finished before February starts, as per Mike's orders.

[TRon]

Go look at the predictions thread, how many are picking us to get in the top four? Top six? What's our best chance of a trophy this season?

 

In fact let's take a quick straw poll.

 

Finishing position in the PL:

Best chance of a trophy:

 

But nobody is even debating that, but to have your manager come out before the season starts to remind us of it (adding the, great day out comment) just takes the piss.

 

Part of the reason we can't compete in this league is the fact that we have the worst manager in the league now.

 

Nar, it's not. He's come out and said exactly the same as us for the last ten years which is a pretty realistic assessment of our situation. If he'd said we were going to compete with the big boys this season he'd have got slated for that too.

 

What he's said isn't particularly unreasonable considering our ownership situation, it seems no matter what he says he'll get stick. Fair enough, you might say but attacking him for a perfectly reasonable view on our prospects diminishes the effect of the actual bad stuff like attacking the fans protest.

 

Crucify the man for attacking the fans, for the shite way he's treated a decent club who gave him a chance. Crucify him when the season starts and we're adrift before Christmas, for taking Ashley's money to help run his boyhood club into the ground.

 

For saying our best chance of a trophy is a cup?  Just pettiness.

 

The difference between Bruce and Rafa is that Rafa would always say what a big city this was, what potential the club had, how he wanted to build something and that he did believe that, given the right resources and backing, the club absolutely COULD compete in the league.

 

Then Bruce comes in and immediately declares a complete lack of ambition, no intent to build anything, and that the best we can hope for is a cup run in competitions the ownership of the club have publicly disdained for over a decade.

 

It's shit.

 

You've got one person looking at last year's 13th place finish and saying we can push on into the top 10, and you've got another looking at it and saying "look, we finished 13th, therefore we're 13th best and should just avoid relegation.

 

Aye, and which one is right? With Ashley in charge we'll never challenge the top clubs, directing your ire at Bruce for some fairly innocuous soundbites is missing the target.

 

No one expects us to challenge the top clubs, but we should be looking to challenge the ones just below that rather than looking to survive. Everton, Leicester, West Ham, etc.

 

So Everton, Leicester and west ham are the big boys at the top end?

 

I specifically said they aren't the big boys, but they are in the tier below that.

[Hhtoon]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

Why are you carrying on like you've not been around watching the situation intently for the last 12 years Ashley has been here?

 

It's all about context rather than taking his quotes at face value.  I've seen very similar quotes from Ashley and Pardew down the years but then we never even try in the cups, or ever have a vaguely exciting league season as the likes of Wolves have recently without breaking the top 6.

 

I disagree with the quotes because there's no need to talk us down versus other clubs and I don't believe him regarding the cups.

 

What has 12 years got to do with him? Maybe he is going to try for a cup. Fine if you don't believe him, but if he is going to, then his quote was perfectly fine.

[loki679]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

Why are you carrying on like you've not been around watching the situation intently for the last 12 years Ashley has been here?

 

It's all about context rather than taking his quotes at face value.  I've seen very similar quotes from Ashley and Pardew down the years but then we never even try in the cups, or ever have a vaguely exciting league season as the likes of Wolves have recently without breaking the top 6.

 

I disagree with the quotes because there's no need to talk us down versus other clubs and I don't believe him regarding the cups.

 

I just don't think we need to vilify the guy for a fairly innocuous quote stating the obvious when there's so much more to go after him with.

 

Fucking ManDoon

[Chris_R]

 

What has 12 years got to do with him? Maybe he is going to try for a cup. Fine if you don't believe him, but if he is going to, then his quote was perfectly fine.

 

 

He won't be allowed to. His bosses won't let him. He can say what he wants, but he's either mistaken or he's lying.

 

He also said he was in charge of transfers yet he seems to be primarily interested in all the players we'd already scouted and been linked with. On that score he's already proven himself a liar, and the club are already on record as saying they don't want to compete in the cups.

[Hhtoon]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

Why are you carrying on like you've not been around watching the situation intently for the last 12 years Ashley has been here?

 

It's all about context rather than taking his quotes at face value.  I've seen very similar quotes from Ashley and Pardew down the years but then we never even try in the cups, or ever have a vaguely exciting league season as the likes of Wolves have recently without breaking the top 6.

 

I disagree with the quotes because there's no need to talk us down versus other clubs and I don't believe him regarding the cups.

 

I just don't think we need to vilify the guy for a fairly innocuous quote stating the obvious when there's so much more to go after him with.

 

Fucking ManDoon

 

Exactly, just playing in to the deluded geordie rhetoric.

[Interpolic]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

Why are you carrying on like you've not been around watching the situation intently for the last 12 years Ashley has been here?

 

It's all about context rather than taking his quotes at face value.  I've seen very similar quotes from Ashley and Pardew down the years but then we never even try in the cups, or ever have a vaguely exciting league season as the likes of Wolves have recently without breaking the top 6.

 

I disagree with the quotes because there's no need to talk us down versus other clubs and I don't believe him regarding the cups.

 

I just don't think we need to vilify the guy for a fairly innocuous quote stating the obvious when there's so much more to go after him with.

 

Fucking ManDoon

 

When it's exactly the same bullshit we've been fed from Ashley and his lackeys for many, many years now, I respectfully disagree

[Interpolic]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

Why are you carrying on like you've not been around watching the situation intently for the last 12 years Ashley has been here?

 

It's all about context rather than taking his quotes at face value.  I've seen very similar quotes from Ashley and Pardew down the years but then we never even try in the cups, or ever have a vaguely exciting league season as the likes of Wolves have recently without breaking the top 6.

 

I disagree with the quotes because there's no need to talk us down versus other clubs and I don't believe him regarding the cups.

 

I just don't think we need to vilify the guy for a fairly innocuous quote stating the obvious when there's so much more to go after him with.

 

Fucking ManDoon

 

Exactly, just playing in to the deluded geordie rhetoric.

 

What?

[TRon]

What are Bruce's hopes for progressing Newcastle? The only thing he appears to have targeted is winning a cup, which no one seriously believes we can do. He should shut the fuck up about winning the cup IMO.

[Hhtoon]

 

What has 12 years got to do with him? Maybe he is going to try for a cup. Fine if you don't believe him, but if he is going to, then his quote was perfectly fine.

 

 

He won't be allowed to. His bosses won't let him. He can say what he wants, but he's either mistaken or he's lying.

 

He also said he was in charge of transfers yet he seems to be primarily interested in all the players we'd already scouted and been linked with. On that score he's already proven himself a liar, and the club are already on record as saying they don't want to compete in the cups.

 

Why would he not be interested in players we've scouted? Maybe he thought they were decent and gave his blessing. Who knows? Who cares?

Where have they said they don't want to compete for a cup?

[Hhtoon]

I doubt the managers of Wolves, Everton, West Ham or Leicester are prattling on about not being able to compete with the top 6 in the press.

 

Besides the fact it is not a helpful attitude for the manager of the club to be broadcasting in public, it's a diversion tactic - distract attention from our self-imposed ceiling by pointing about 10 places upwards moaning that something nobody expects us to achieve is unachievable.

 

The manager shouldn't be commenting on what we can't do, trying to lower expectations before a ball is even kicked.  He's a self-serving loser, like Pardew was.  And unsurprisingly it's the same strawman bullshit argument his new boss peddles in the press whenever interviewed.

 

You could take it as a statement of ambition. Acknowledging that we're not going to be competing with Liverpool or Manchester City this season isn't the crime of the century. Going after a cup is a decent goal for a club in our position with our current ownership and manager.

 

Again, can any of you disagree with anything he's said in that quote?

 

Why are you carrying on like you've not been around watching the situation intently for the last 12 years Ashley has been here?

 

It's all about context rather than taking his quotes at face value.  I've seen very similar quotes from Ashley and Pardew down the years but then we never even try in the cups, or ever have a vaguely exciting league season as the likes of Wolves have recently without breaking the top 6.

 

I disagree with the quotes because there's no need to talk us down versus other clubs and I don't believe him regarding the cups.

 

I just don't think we need to vilify the guy for a fairly innocuous quote stating the obvious when there's so much more to go after him with.

 

Fucking ManDoon

 

Exactly, just playing in to the deluded geordie rhetoric.

 

What?

 

Why?

[Mattoon]

At face value he's probably right, with him as manager, losing some of our best players with more probably set to leave and a complete lack of investment we'll be lucky to stay up. However he's toeing the Ashley line, resetting expectations and belittling the club. If you shoot for the stars and land on the moon that's great but if you aim for next doors garden and hit the fence then you're in trouble.

 

The trouble is we're in this predicament because he's just another lacky who does as he's told, he's sat back and watched our best players sold and no investment and instead of saying it's not good enough, he's accepted it and lowered expectations. He's doing exactly what Ashley brought him in for, take training, put some bibs out and tell the players to run faster and deal with what he's shat on with.

 

It's just another sucker punch from demanding more, challenging for more and then all of a sudden expecting the minimum again. Crack on, vilify him for the lot, he deserves it all, but let's not forget the real issue in it all.

[Chris_R]

 

I just don't think we need to vilify the guy for a fairly innocuous quote stating the obvious when there's so much more to go after him with.

 

It's not innocuous though. If you constantly tell your partner / kids that they're not good enough, they'll eventually start to believe you and will achieve less. He's telling a whole city they're not good enough. He wants us to want less for ourselves. That's the club policy - Accept less. It starts from what the manager says, he's the mouthpiece of the club.

 

Everyone should have aspirations. You should always try to get better, to improve, to be the very best you can. None of us should accept mediocrity, because the moment you do you're condemning yourself to just that.

[Chris_R]

 

Why would he not be interested in players we've scouted? Maybe he thought they were decent and gave his blessing. Who knows? Who cares?

Where have they said they don't want to compete for a cup?

 

I'm struggling to take the first part of that seriously enough to even dignify it with an answer. He's clearly not in charge of transfers and if he says he is he's a liar.

 

As for the second part, the club themselves have repeatedly said that during fan forums. They then published the minutes themselves with their own words in, saying the cups are of no interest because they increase our chances of being relegated. They even gave percentages ffs.

[loki679]

 

I just don't think we need to vilify the guy for a fairly innocuous quote stating the obvious when there's so much more to go after him with.

 

It's not innocuous though. If you constantly tell your partner / kids that they're not good enough, they'll eventually start to believe you and will achieve less. He's telling a whole city they're not good enough. He wants us to want less for ourselves. That's the club policy - Accept less. It starts from what the manager says, he's the mouthpiece of the club.

 

Everyone should have aspirations. You should always try to get better, to improve, to be the very best you can. None of us should accept mediocrity, because the moment you do you're condemning yourself to just that.

 

What constantly telling? He said we can't win the league but we might be able to get a cup.

 

What do you disagree with in his statement?

[Chris_R]

 

I just don't think we need to vilify the guy for a fairly innocuous quote stating the obvious when there's so much more to go after him with.

 

It's not innocuous though. If you constantly tell your partner / kids that they're not good enough, they'll eventually start to believe you and will achieve less. He's telling a whole city they're not good enough. He wants us to want less for ourselves. That's the club policy - Accept less. It starts from what the manager says, he's the mouthpiece of the club.

 

Everyone should have aspirations. You should always try to get better, to improve, to be the very best you can. None of us should accept mediocrity, because the moment you do you're condemning yourself to just that.

 

What constantly telling? He said we can't win the league but we might be able to get a cup.

 

What do you disagree with in his statement?

 

The "might be able to get a cup" comment. I disagree with that. Our cup win chance is 0% as the board have stated we don't want to be in them in case we get relegated.

 

Secondly, I disagree with him downplaying the club's ambitions. Doesn't matter what we can or can't do, there's no value in saying to people that they can't. If you have kids and they come to you saying they want to be Prime Minister, the odds may be a million to one but you don't tell them they can't. You help them be the very best they can be, and push them to improve all the time.

 

Just because little Johnny is currently only looking at getting C-D at GCSE doesn't mean you sit him down and tell him he's going to be flipping burgers for the rest of his life, even if it is accurate. And if someone did do that, you don't say "But tell me where I'm wrong?". You're probably not wrong factually, but you're wrong in how you're dealing with him as a person. You're downplaying his expectations, telling him he'll never amount to anything. Sound familiar?

[loki679]

So you want him to pat you on the head and tell you that turdy looking thing you've just put in his hand is the bestest fathers day mug ever?

 

Dude just said we're not gonna be challenging the top clubs but we can have a go in the cups.  Total overreaction to a fairly mild quote.

[Chris_R]

Total overreaction to a fairly mild quote.

 

It's symptomatic of club policy and needs to be stamped on. I'm not in the mood to cut them any slack just because the shit thing they said could have been worse.

 

As far as I'm concerned, this is a war.