Success at what cost?

[Guest The Little Waster]

Just goes to show how far people can go in overlooking things if there's the possibility of their material interests being looked after. If people can not only overlook, but defend Saudi barbarism because their football club might improve, it should now be a no-brainer why things like poor people voting for Trump in the rust belt happened and will continue to happen.

 

Poor people vote for Trump because they want things to be better, it's not that different to Newcastle fans, I suppose you're right there. Difference is, Trump will probably make things worse for them because he's a businessman, and business goals are not usually to put money in poor people's pockets.

 

Voters in the rust belt voted Trump in large part because Clinton ignored them and called potential Trump voters deplorables . A few daft twats on twitter does not equal the vast majority of fans . In the end the question of Saudi backwardness won't be answered by the actions of NUFC fans , it'll be the Saudi people themselves that solve that one

[Infinitely Content]

that's a fair and interesting way of looking at it. Since we are in that territory, this is a very interesting Harvard free course on morality/justice:

 

https://online-learning.harvard.edu/course/justice?delta=1

 

Very much worth the time imo, the lecturers book is also very good (so far)

 

Thanks man, looks cool - I'll check it out

[Infinitely Content]

I can't help but think that anyone in our fanbase who is against this for moral reasons doesn't quite understand capitalism. There is literally nobody who can afford a football club who doesn't have as much of a link to death or general misery than PIF.

 

[Edit] Maybe Bill Gates, anyone checked whether he likes us?

 

I think what you've just touched on there is absolutely true. Whilst I agree, to play devil's advocate one could say that there's a difference between the kind obscured nature and lack of/difference in reporting on deaths at the hands of capitalism and the direct, explicit nature of actions relating to our potential owners. However I would say it's just a difference in delivery, it's the suicide bombing versus the silent strike of the drone.

[Kid Icarus]

I can't help but think that anyone in our fanbase who is against this for moral reasons doesn't quite understand capitalism. There is literally nobody who can afford a football club who doesn't have as much of a link to death or general misery than PIF.

 

[Edit] Maybe Bill Gates, anyone checked whether he likes us?

 

I see where you're coming from, but as much as I agree with you on capitalism, there are still varying degrees of evil and you can even point to that difference with Ashley and MBS and everyone will have their own line.

 

Gates is probably a nonce imo no one should have been knocking about with Jeffrey Epstein and appearing in the lolita express flight logs after he'd been convicted.

[Kid Icarus]

Just goes to show how far people can go in overlooking things if there's the possibility of their material interests being looked after. If people can not only overlook, but defend Saudi barbarism because their football club might improve, it should now be a no-brainer why things like poor people voting for Trump in the rust belt happened and will continue to happen.

 

Poor people vote for Trump because they want things to be better, it's not that different to Newcastle fans, I suppose you're right there. Difference is, Trump will probably make things worse for them because he's a businessman, and business goals are not usually to put money in poor people's pockets.

 

Voters in the rust belt voted Trump in large part because Clinton ignored them and called potential Trump voters deplorables .

 

Finally, something we can agree on!

[Guest The Little Waster]

Just goes to show how far people can go in overlooking things if there's the possibility of their material interests being looked after. If people can not only overlook, but defend Saudi barbarism because their football club might improve, it should now be a no-brainer why things like poor people voting for Trump in the rust belt happened and will continue to happen.

 

Poor people vote for Trump because they want things to be better, it's not that different to Newcastle fans, I suppose you're right there. Difference is, Trump will probably make things worse for them because he's a businessman, and business goals are not usually to put money in poor people's pockets.

 

Voters in the rust belt voted Trump in large part because Clinton ignored them and called potential Trump voters deplorables .

 

Finally, something we can agree on!

 

Lol the planets have aligned

[Deuce]

I can't help but think that anyone in our fanbase who is against this for moral reasons doesn't quite understand capitalism. There is literally nobody who can afford a football club who doesn't have as much of a link to death or general misery than PIF.

 

[Edit] Maybe Bill Gates, anyone checked whether he likes us?

 

Well that’s simply not true.

[thomas]

Roman Abramovich is like Putin's adopted son, arguably up there.

[Rafalove]

Interesting watch. Don’t agree with some of the points made but interesting to find out exactly what kind of vitriol were about to have thrown at us

 

[Ankles Bennett]

Prior to this takeover were the conscientious objectors really actively objecting to the saudi regime until the opportunity to do so was placed in their lap by Amnesty objecting.

[Deuce]

Prior to this takeover were the conscientious objectors really actively objecting to the saudi regime until the opportunity to do so was placed in their lap by Amnesty objecting.

 

Been asked and answered numerous times over the past two weeks. Next.

[Happinesstan]

Just goes to show how far people can go in overlooking things if there's the possibility of their material interests being looked after. If people can not only overlook, but defend Saudi barbarism because their football club might improve, it should now be a no-brainer why things like poor people voting for Trump in the rust belt happened and will continue to happen.

 

Poor people vote for Trump because they want things to be better, it's not that different to Newcastle fans, I suppose you're right there. Difference is, Trump will probably make things worse for them because he's a businessman, and business goals are not usually to put money in poor people's pockets.

 

Voters in the rust belt voted Trump in large part because Clinton ignored them and called potential Trump voters deplorables . A few daft twats on twitter does not equal the vast majority of fans . In the end the question of Saudi backwardness won't be answered by the actions of NUFC fans , it'll be the Saudi people themselves that solve that one

 

But they'll be too occupied watching us win everything on the table.

[Happinesstan]

I can't help but think that anyone in our fanbase who is against this for moral reasons doesn't quite understand capitalism. There is literally nobody who can afford a football club who doesn't have as much of a link to death or general misery than PIF.

 

[Edit] Maybe Bill Gates, anyone checked whether he likes us?

 

It's possible to be opposed to the Saudis an capitalism. In fact anybody with an understanding of capitalism and the workings of power should naturally be opposed to both.

[BlueStar]

Especially if we get any success, fans of other clubs are (rightfully) gonna use it as a stick to beat us with in terms of chants etc.  I'm concerned some of the knackers in our away support will rise to it by doubling down and singing stuff slagging off Amnesty, Khashoggi's wife, or whoever is currently in the media taking a dim view.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I can't help but think that anyone in our fanbase who is against this for moral reasons doesn't quite understand capitalism. There is literally nobody who can afford a football club who doesn't have as much of a link to death or general misery than PIF.

 

[Edit] Maybe Bill Gates, anyone checked whether he likes us?

 

It's possible to be opposed to the Saudis an capitalism. In fact anybody with an understanding of capitalism and the workings of power should naturally be opposed to both.

 

Without capitalism, we’d all be jobless and living in caves.

 

It’s the best system there is, only we’ve allowed it to work the most for the few to benefit them best and the rest the worst.

 

Do you have another system that works better or will?

 

My own system of capitalism works great for me and my family and those I employ. I create jobs, wealth, I raise money for the state, I contribute to the system that benefits more and not less while the system I contribute to benefits me the least which maybe if not, I wouldn’t need to run a business or even need a job...

 

It benefits far more others even less though and that’s where I benefit them or those like myself and indeed you do the most working the system or making it work. And it does work.

 

I can’t remember the quote exactly or who said it but basically capitalism is the one thing that’s most right for us all out of everything we’ve triedfrom religion to communism, but the one thing we get so wrong or do it wrong badly the most of which defeats the whole purpose of capitalism.

 

I try to come to terms with this all by reminding myself how far we’ve come in just 100 years alone and how far we still have to go which if we use the last 100 years as a yardstick and not the thousands of centuries before that, we’re kind of getting there and unless there is a better way right now, we don’t have a choice. It’s about making it work again which it kind of does, but it’s unfairly stacked and those right at the bottom or on the end, they have Everest to climb, naked, blind and on crutches.

[Happinesstan]

I can't help but think that anyone in our fanbase who is against this for moral reasons doesn't quite understand capitalism. There is literally nobody who can afford a football club who doesn't have as much of a link to death or general misery than PIF.

 

[Edit] Maybe Bill Gates, anyone checked whether he likes us?

 

It's possible to be opposed to the Saudis an capitalism. In fact anybody with an understanding of capitalism and the workings of power should naturally be opposed to both.

 

Without capitalism, we’d all be jobless and living in caves.

 

It’s the best system there is, only we’ve allowed it to work the most for the few to benefit them best and the rest the worst.

 

Do you have another system that works better or will?

 

My own system of capitalism works great for me and my family and those I employ. I create jobs, wealth, I raise money for the state, I contribute to the system that benefits more and not less while the system I contribute to benefits me the least which maybe if not, I wouldn’t need to run a business or even need a job...

 

It benefits far more others even less though and that’s where I benefit them or those like myself and indeed you do the most working the system or making it work. And it does work.

 

I can’t remember the quote exactly or who said it but basically capitalism is the one thing that’s most right for us all out of everything we’ve triedfrom religion to communism, but the one thing we get so wrong or do it wrong badly the most of which defeats the whole purpose of capitalism.

 

I try to come to terms with this all by reminding myself how far we’ve come in just 100 years alone and how far we still have to go which if we use the last 100 years as a yardstick and not the thousands of centuries before that, we’re kind of getting there and unless there is a better way right now, we don’t have a choice. It’s about making it work again which it kind of does, but it’s unfairly stacked and those right at the bottom or on the end, they have Everest to climb, naked, blind and on crutches.

 

Clearly you were just looking for an excuse to spout forth the netty, as you haven't addressed the relationship with power that I specifically referenced. 

 

 

[UncleBingo]

Very interesting piece about sportswashing and our situation.

 

https://thecoop.substack.com/p/discipline-and-sportswash

[triggs]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/saudi-arabia-newcastle-united-takeover-bid-mbs-mohammed-bin-salman-a9486791.html

 

This was posted in the main thread but probably better suited to here. Saudi dissident living in Washington giving his opinion

[RS]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/saudi-arabia-newcastle-united-takeover-bid-mbs-mohammed-bin-salman-a9486791.html

 

This was posted in the main thread but probably better suited to here. Saudi dissident living in Washington giving his opinion

It’s not a pretty read like.

[Deuce]

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/saudi-arabia-newcastle-united-takeover-bid-mbs-mohammed-bin-salman-a9486791.html

 

This was posted in the main thread but probably better suited to here. Saudi dissident living in Washington giving his opinion

 

Grim reading, but important.

[triggs]

Found the bit about the bloke not necessarily being smart with his money quite interesting

[Si]

Found the bit about the bloke not necessarily being smart with his money quite interesting

He's buying us.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I can't help but think that anyone in our fanbase who is against this for moral reasons doesn't quite understand capitalism. There is literally nobody who can afford a football club who doesn't have as much of a link to death or general misery than PIF.

 

[Edit] Maybe Bill Gates, anyone checked whether he likes us?

 

It's possible to be opposed to the Saudis an capitalism. In fact anybody with an understanding of capitalism and the workings of power should naturally be opposed to both.

 

Without capitalism, we’d all be jobless and living in caves.

 

It’s the best system there is, only we’ve allowed it to work the most for the few to benefit them best and the rest the worst.

 

Do you have another system that works better or will?

 

My own system of capitalism works great for me and my family and those I employ. I create jobs, wealth, I raise money for the state, I contribute to the system that benefits more and not less while the system I contribute to benefits me the least which maybe if not, I wouldn’t need to run a business or even need a job...

 

It benefits far more others even less though and that’s where I benefit them or those like myself and indeed you do the most working the system or making it work. And it does work.

 

I can’t remember the quote exactly or who said it but basically capitalism is the one thing that’s most right for us all out of everything we’ve triedfrom religion to communism, but the one thing we get so wrong or do it wrong badly the most of which defeats the whole purpose of capitalism.

 

I try to come to terms with this all by reminding myself how far we’ve come in just 100 years alone and how far we still have to go which if we use the last 100 years as a yardstick and not the thousands of centuries before that, we’re kind of getting there and unless there is a better way right now, we don’t have a choice. It’s about making it work again which it kind of does, but it’s unfairly stacked and those right at the bottom or on the end, they have Everest to climb, naked, blind and on crutches.

 

Clearly you were just looking for an excuse to spout forth the netty, as you haven't addressed the relationship with power that I specifically referenced. 

 

 

 

Capitalism’s relationship with those in power and those with power isn’t anywhere near as strong or rather as tight as the relationship to power between religion, status, heritage, royalty and titles.

 

The relationship between capitalism and wealth and with it power and it’s negative significance is even weaker as wealth and power derived from capitalism is pretty much what is most positive about capitalism for most of us.

 

I’d love to read your thoughts about another system that’s way better, if you have one. Please share if you do, you may just save the world one day and rid us of the evils of capitalism and it’s link to those in power and those with power.

 

I say that because no matter how wealthy I become, I don’t hold out much hope of ever becoming King one day or even the PM. And I wouldn’t want to be the Pope one day or the sultan/royal prince of some 3rd world nation either. I’d rather be on some yacht bored out of my tits.

 

I’d settle for owning my own footy club mind! Would I be able to do that in your non capitalist world?

 

If not, I don’t think I’ll bother if that’s OK with you?!

[thomas]

ya'll not got corporate lobbyists over there, HTT? The ones who write the bills that become law, hand them directly to the lawmaker, and get them passed via campaign contributions? We might be a little more further down the fucked up line in some respects.  Power doesn't have to wear a crown, it just needs to be able to tell the crown what to do.

[mrmojorisin75]

I’d love to read your thoughts about another system that’s way better, if you have one. Please share if you do, you may just save the world one day and rid us of the evils of capitalism and it’s link to those in power and those with power.

 

i'd love to read your thoughts on non-capitalist systems that have never and will never be allowed to exist because of the very nature of capitalism itself

 

EDIT: just look at the calls for something as basic as UBI, boot straight on the neck from the capitalist blood suckers because god forbid they try and and something remotely socialist that could easily be implemented within capitalism itself actually work and give people ideas