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Success at what cost?

Mike

by Mike
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AyeDubbleYoo

AyeDubbleYoo

Posted
Posted

While I'm not ignorant of the atrocities these people are responsible for, I'm in no way responsible for their actions and I won't feel guilty about supporting the club I've supported since 1990. I know that indirectly I'll be feeding the machine that allows these people to continue doing whatever it is that that they do (things we know about and things we don't), but if I shut myself off from any possible thing that involves anything considered unsavoury, I literally think I'd probably be living on the streets. Everything has ties in someone exploiting or harming another these days. We made the this bed as a species.

 

I'm hoping, at least a good investment into the city and the surrounding area (airport/infrastructure/transport links/jobs etc) can be made so at least the region can improve for the lives of the people I ultimately care for. Us.

 

Actually you're not funding them to any meaningful extent (IMO), you're more allowing them to use sport to improve their image in the west. I imagine they're not really too interested in whatever money they can make from football, they're already unbelievably rich.

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Kid Icarus

Kid Icarus

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My love of sports has slowly been beaten out of me.  Its almost not worth it to follow my teams anymore.  Its not just their individual mismanagement and mediocre results as much as it is the total disregard of the fan.  It's disheartening and is more than just my slide into old age and cynicism.  Its never about sport anymore; just money and the fastest way to get it.

 

Dunno if anyone on here's seen it, but this reminds me a lot of the closing line in Fighting in the Age of Loneliness, a documentary by Felix Biederman about MMA.

 

"If you've somehow made it to the end of this and you're not an MMA fan, I hope you take one thing away from this - this will happen to everything you love. Nothing you like will remain untouched and it'll get further and further monetised into meaninglessness. This isn't just our problem in our idiotic blood sport. You're fucked too."

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Deuce

Deuce

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I’ve don’t begrudge our fans getting excited about this, particularly right now. The club means a whole lot to a lot of people and I’m glad many have something to look forward to again.

 

However, I have no time for the cognitive dissonance (at best) or downright condoning of Saudi authoritarianism (at worst) that we’re sure to hear from many supporters. Spare me the inevitable disingenuousness. Anyone who suggests a moral equivalency between our outgoing owner and the incoming regime is a fucking dipshit.

 

Football is a broken game. We’re just fortunate that the deck is now being stacked in our favor.

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Guest neesy111

Guest neesy111

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I’ve don’t begrudge our fans getting excited about this, particularly right now. The club means a whole lot to a lot of people and I’m glad many have something to look forward to again.

 

However, I have no time for the cognitive dissonance (at best) or downright condoning of Saudi authoritarianism (at worst) that we’re sure to hear from many supporters. Spare me the inevitable disingenuousness. Anyone who suggests a moral equivalency between our outgoing owner and the incoming regime is a fucking dipshit.

 

Football is a broken game. We’re just fortunate that the deck is now being stacked in our favor.

 

:thup:

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Guest Gazibaldi

Guest Gazibaldi

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Actually you're not funding them to any meaningful extent (IMO), you're more allowing them to use sport to improve their image in the west. I imagine they're not really too interested in whatever money they can make from football, they're already unbelievably rich.

 

You have no idea how much money I love to spunk away on matchday pies  :laugh2:

 

I'm not really allowing them to use sport to improve their image in any meaningful way either. Arguably, I have no say whatsoever in them using the club as a platform. Ergo, why should I feel any guilt at all? I'm just gonna enjoy the moment and if they start sending me letters to 'sort out' a chron journalist or something, then I'll worry.

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Guest NobbyOhNobby

Guest NobbyOhNobby

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I’ve don’t begrudge our fans getting excited about this, particularly right now. The club means a whole lot to a lot of people and I’m glad many have something to look forward to again.

 

However, I have no time for the cognitive dissonance (at best) or downright condoning of Saudi authoritarianism (at worst) that we’re sure to hear from many supporters. Spare me the inevitable disingenuousness. Anyone who suggests a moral equivalency between our outgoing owner and the incoming regime is a fucking dipshit.

 

Football is a broken game. We’re just fortunate that the deck is now being stacked in our favor.

This. I'm also disappointed that people already can't appreciate that this association is going to be a massive problem for a lot of fans, me included. It's also shit craic that lots of folk don't even want to countenance the truth and just want to enjoy themselves. I hope we don't get to the point where we see fans in Saudi costumes or singing Saudi related songs...

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Si

Si

Posted
Posted

I’ve don’t begrudge our fans getting excited about this, particularly right now. The club means a whole lot to a lot of people and I’m glad many have something to look forward to again.

 

However, I have no time for the cognitive dissonance (at best) or downright condoning of Saudi authoritarianism (at worst) that we’re sure to hear from many supporters. Spare me the inevitable disingenuousness. Anyone who suggests a moral equivalency between our outgoing owner and the incoming regime is a fucking dipshit.

 

Football is a broken game. We’re just fortunate that the deck is now being stacked in our favor.

Aye, well said.
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Guest Gazibaldi

Guest Gazibaldi

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This. I'm also disappointed that people already can't appreciate that this association is going to be a massive problem for a lot of fans, me included. It's also s*** craic that lots of folk don't even want to countenance the truth and just want to enjoy themselves. I hope we don't get to the point where we see fans in Saudi costumes or singing Saudi related songs...

 

Don't be disappointed. I have no doubt many people fully understand the that this is going to be a massive problem for a good percentage of the fans. No one should be trying to sweep this under the carpet. If there is fans who are ignorant to your concerns, you don't need to worry about them as they aren't intelligent enough or empathetic enough for you to worry about their opinion. This is potentially the end of 13 years of stagnation, many fans only hearing about the 'glory days' from their older relatives/friends. Let them have this moment of hope/glee. The whole sport-washing discussion is inevitable and it will be discussed, by the people who are interested in that discussion. it just doesn't need to be today.

 

In addition, anyone tone deaf enough to be coming to games in Saudi costumes deserves to be ignored anyway...

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thomas

thomas

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I don't understand how image cleaning works with a purchase like this given that 99% of match going fans aren't in the kind of social/power spheres to really apply change to UK policy towards Saudi Arabia "Say what you will about the murderous regime that owns 80% of the club but they do put on a good halftime show. Let's talk about easing sanctions like." ??? I'm oversimplifying not to paint that as anyone's actual argument but to say that's just how I see it in my head and it seems ridiculous.

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Sho Time

Sho Time

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As far as I'm concerned the key objective for us is a fanbase is to get a cancerous owner out of our club and have someone(s) who are willing to invest in the club and the city as a whole. Almost everyone who has the amount of money to buy a football club has questionable ethics, hence why they actually have that much money in the first place.

 

Who it is, what they do is not our concern as a fanbase, we cannot change it. We can only be happy that we are fortunate enough that we are going to be the ones to benefit from the financial injection that is likely to happen for the region as a result of all this. It could just as easily have been anyone else.

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Troll

Troll

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Posted

I don't understand how image cleaning works with a purchase like this given that 99% of match going fans aren't in the kind of social/power spheres to really apply change to UK policy towards Saudi Arabia "Say what you will about the murderous regime that owns 80% of the club but they do put on a good halftime show. Let's talk about easing sanctions like." ??? I'm oversimplifying not to paint that as anyone's actual argument but to say that's just how I see it in my head and it seems ridiculous.

 

This is the most watched sports league in the world.  Their reach will be a bit further than match going fans.  Maybe a while down the line their reputation within the game leads to a world cup in Saudi Arabia.

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thomas

thomas

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I don't understand how image cleaning works with a purchase like this given that 99% of match going fans aren't in the kind of social/power spheres to really apply change to UK policy towards Saudi Arabia "Say what you will about the murderous regime that owns 80% of the club but they do put on a good halftime show. Let's talk about easing sanctions like." ??? I'm oversimplifying not to paint that as anyone's actual argument but to say that's just how I see it in my head and it seems ridiculous.

 

This is the most watched sports league in the world.  Their reach will be a bit further than match going fans.  Maybe a while down the line their reputation within the game leads to a world cup in Saudi Arabia.

 

The question wasn't really about reach. I'm still questioning how the purchase of a club changes national perceptions. You're going from "lots of people will know they own the club" to "people will soften their stance on saudi arabia" without showing the work.

 

Also, why do that to get a world cup when Qatar got one through corruption and bribery at likely a far cheaper price than a club? :lol:

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Kanj

Kanj

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As far as I'm concerned the key objective for us is a fanbase is to get a cancerous owner out of our club and have someone(s) who are willing to invest in the club and the city as a whole. Almost everyone who has the amount of money to buy a football club has questionable ethics, hence why they actually have that much money in the first place.

 

Who it is, what they do is not our concern as a fanbase, we cannot change it. We can only be happy that we are fortunate enough that we are going to be the ones to benefit from the financial injection that is likely to happen for the region as a result of all this. It could just as easily have been anyone else.

 

It's interesting and thought provoking. IF the takeover does indeed happen and the new ownership group invests heavily into the city via a) NUFC b) other commercial real estate development c) charitable foundation - you have transformational type investment into the region that creates jobs, wealth, and improves the community. The measure of success for sporting clubs across the world now is very much this. It's success on it, it's community impact off it. It's now easily becoming one in the same. Look at nearly every successful sports club across the globe and they generally trying to achieve this.

 

So if that all happens down the road...5-10 years away ...success on and off pitch, would it make people happier with the owner's intentions to improve the club and region? Even knowing what they have done back home?

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