Away Toon Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Why exactly do people think the British among many governments are selling arms to the Saudi's? It's not for them to defend themselves, and we aren't giving them arms, we are selling them in exchange for filthy lucre that goes into the pockets of defense contractors, arms dealers and the corrupt venal disgusting politicians who let this happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Tbf, it's not the best system we have, it's just the only system we have and it collapses on average every 7 to 10 years. Funnily enough the same point you're making was made endlessly about feudalism before capitalism began. There aren't different forms of capitalism either really, only restricted versions that will always always fight to be unrestricted. Probably something for another thread as a wider discussion like, but it's undeniable that it relates to this discussion though, because capitalism is responsible for ripping the soul out of football, and more or less anything that can be monetised. For some reason I can't edit my post, but deleted that one bit above because it's a distinction without a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Well this is complicated To be perfectly honest, Saudi Arabia, a malignant regime should not be allowed to try and boost their reputation positively by buying one of the countrys biggest sporting brands. Football clubs are not there to launder the reputations of the world's despots. Anyone who things, setting aside all other considerations that being owned by the Saudis is a perfectly moral thing, I think is kidding themselves. One is allowed to point out that plenty of other sports have also been involved with the Saudis (but yes there is criticism there too) and other football clubs are also owned by evil despots. This does not unfortunately mean that the Saudis owning Newcastle is still just fine. Football long abandoned morals at the foot of the massive pile of money the premier league offered. This was always where this was heading as long as the fans kept tuning in for the soap opera and ridiculous over the top scale of the enterprise. Create the biggest circus in town all the biggest clowns want to get involved. Does this make everyone evil for enjoying Newcastle's potential new riches? No I don't think. I do think it'll make some of us look briefly foolish, anyone lining up to say that Saudi Arabia are just misunderstood and all are shills for a regime not worthy of it. But everyone has to make compromises unless you are the most bloviating pompous hippy withdrawn from society in the west you are likely buying unethically souced clothes, using Saudi oil etc etc. I don't think it is reasonable to expect everyone to feel bad for taking advantage of what entertainment and sport is put in front of you and I certainly wouldn't expect people to sacrifice the pull of seeing tehir team going to do well. All I think is that people should be aware the Saudi's are cunts. Try not to play too much into their publicity by publically banging on about how Mohammed Bin Salman is a lovely bloke, public executions are just a lark etc etc and all wish for the day when sanity prevails and Football clubs are forced into some level of fan ownership again. I will be enjoying the ride, I will never be sad Ashley is gone I will just be sad that it had to be these cunts who rescued us but to not enjoy the sport of it as well would just be too cruel. I may be a hypocrite but I think it's frankly impossible not to be. Maybe I would be better off watching some fan owned semi professional team in the distant leagues, but sorry I want to walk up to St James Park again and go in and watch us win again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Excellent post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 That really is a brilliant post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Yep exactly, it's complicated. I'll be able to enjoy it, but lets's not pretend they're not awful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Yep exactly, it's complicated. I'll be able to enjoy it, but lets's not pretend they're not awful. Aye, I don't mind people enjoying the club competing again but its the Saudi flags on twitter (and probably at the first few games) that are out of order IMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Tiresias Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 there was a class twitter post i can't find again riffing on the keyes chelp basically along the lines of "why aren't newcastle fans getting on planes to sort out the saudi regime? stop fucking enjoying yourselves and go and do something about it" as a response to journos starting to twist the knife on us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 TBF can anyone say everything they do is pure ? Are the English strawberry's you had for lunch ok even though some Albanian on £2 an hour that lives with 10 people in a 4 berth caravan picked them? Did you enjoy your daily walk in your shoes that were made by a 10 year old in Cambodia? Do you even know where your pension is invested ? And now we have a bloke that paid $450 million for a picture buying us to hopefully invest in not just us but the region ...........yes its very complicated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rompe Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 TBF can anyone say everything they do is pure ? Are the English strawberry's you had for lunch ok even though some Albanian on £2 an hour that lives with 10 people in a 4 berth caravan picked them? Did you enjoy your daily walk in your shoes that were made by a 10 year old in Cambodia? Do you even know where your pension is invested ? And now we have a bloke that paid $450 million for a picture buying us to hopefully invest in not just us but the region ...........yes its very complicated. The notion that you can't be critical of anything, unless everything you do is "pure" is absolutely ridiculous. By all means it's a compliated issue yes, but that line of reasoning is very weak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 I still eat bacon but when I think about little piglets it makes me sad and I feel bad. So I just don't think about them. Simples! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 It's not about being "pure", it's about this regime, and others, using football clubs to curry favour around the globe and get people to turn a blind eye to murder and war because it's associated with their favourite club/player. It seems many Newcastle fans are already well on the bandwagon that thousands of Man City fans have been on for years where they spend more time defending their owner against accusations of human rights abuses than they do talking about football. You can tolerate something without praising/defending it which is what we all do every day with the things we buy, I've never bought a cheap t-shirt then gone home and spent the evening arguing with journalists writing about cheap foreign labour. Shit like adding the Saudi Arabian flag to one's Twitter is just deeply unpleasant. For years we've said we "want the club back." As pleased as I will be to get rid of Ashley, can we really say that has been achieved if the club becomes a propaganda tool for a brutal regime? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 All I think is that people should be aware the Saudi's are cunts. Try not to play too much into their publicity by publically banging on about how Mohammed Bin Salman is a lovely bloke, public executions are just a lark etc etc and all wish for the day when sanity prevails and Football clubs are forced into some level of fan ownership again. I will be enjoying the ride, I will never be sad Ashley is gone I will just be sad that it had to be these cunts who rescued us but to not enjoy the sport of it as well would just be too cruel. I may be a hypocrite but I think it's frankly impossible not to be. Maybe I would be better off watching some fan owned semi professional team in the distant leagues, but sorry I want to walk up to St James Park again and go in and watch us win again. Yeah, they obviously have deplorable practices, and there's no point justifying it because they're buying the club. It would be unfortunate if people start dressing up as Arabs and carrying on in that vein, as it would be pretty distasteful. I wouldn't let it spoil the enjoyment of the club though. Just enjoy the sport for what it is and don't get into trying to praise them and what not. Hopefully Staveley and the Reuben brothers are more present and they just stay in the background. It's not an ideal situation, but man, why should they be able to come in and ruin this for people? Especially when not too much can be done about it. At least the area will be taking some of that money they love throwing around and actually be using it to improve people's lives. The whole idea of sports washing is interesting to me, because I really don't think it works. Nobody is really thinking good things about these kinds of owners just because they are doing well with a football team are they? I mean even with Man City I never really even associate them with the club that way. It's just a toy they spent a bunch of money on, not some great honourable pursuit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 It's not about being "pure", it's about this regime, and others, using football clubs to curry favour around the globe and get people to turn a blind eye to murder and war because it's associated with their favourite club/player. It seems many Newcastle fans are already well on the bandwagon that thousands of Man City fans have been on for years where they spend more time defending their owner against accusations of human rights abuses than they do talking about football. You can tolerate something without praising/defending it which is what we all do every day with the things we buy, I've never bought a cheap t-shirt then gone home and spent the evening arguing with journalists writing about cheap foreign labour. Shit like adding the Saudi Arabian flag to one's Twitter is just deeply unpleasant. For years we've said we "want the club back." As pleased as I will be to get rid of Ashley, can we really say that has been achieved if the club becomes a propaganda tool for a brutal regime? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 People are adding the flag to their profiles on social media?! Hopefully this kind of thing calms down quickly. It is terrible form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 What if the club is massively successful on and off the pitch, is a catalyst for a revitalized region, a flourishing NUFC foundation , with wealth and jobs created? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 What if the club is massively successful on and off the pitch, is a catalyst for a revitalized region, a flourishing NUFC foundation , with wealth and jobs created? It would be great for Newcastle, but I would hope people wouldn't be fawning over them and heaping praise on them or anything. Take it for what it is, and recognise that shouldn't suddenly mean their other practices are in anyway defendable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalove Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Still not excusable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Of course it’s not excusable. I can be a supporter of nufc and be proud of what ownership has done for the club and region and still be up in arms with what they do as a political force in their own country and globally as such. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 It's not about being "pure", it's about this regime, and others, using football clubs to curry favour around the globe and get people to turn a blind eye to murder and war because it's associated with their favourite club/player. It seems many Newcastle fans are already well on the bandwagon that thousands of Man City fans have been on for years where they spend more time defending their owner against accusations of human rights abuses than they do talking about football. You can tolerate something without praising/defending it which is what we all do every day with the things we buy, I've never bought a cheap t-shirt then gone home and spent the evening arguing with journalists writing about cheap foreign labour. Shit like adding the Saudi Arabian flag to one's Twitter is just deeply unpleasant. For years we've said we "want the club back." As pleased as I will be to get rid of Ashley, can we really say that has been achieved if the club becomes a propaganda tool for a brutal regime? waiting for the first fan to dress up in the arab garb carrying a machete and severed head/hand for the bantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 What if the club is massively successful on and off the pitch, is a catalyst for a revitalized region, a flourishing NUFC foundation , with wealth and jobs created? That's the "sportswashing" bit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Capitalism has been carrying out atrocities on the general population worldwide for the last 200 years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 ”Finally Newcastle is getting its soul back” x 10000 Sportwashing is already working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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