Gazzaschicken Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 11 hours ago, Jackie Broon said: Because Steve fucking Bruce managed to keep this dog dirt squad up last season. We were drawing by fine margins under Bruce this season, it should only take a moderate improvement to turn those draws into wins. Howe hasn't managed to find that moderate improvement over Steve fucking Bruce, that is inexcusable. Steve bruce kept us up with massive luck we got 16 points in our last 8 games if you judge him by the rest of the season it was shocking. We released 5 to 6 players in the summer and made 1 recruit who was on loan with us last season so our squad is a year older, with no fresh faces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzaschicken Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, ManDoon said: It is aye, but I still think we can be getting better out of the squad. The idea is the manager gets more out of the players. There's clearly no more to get out of them though. You can't turn longstaff into a fernandinho, there's a limit based on ability and our team just doesn't have the ability or the fight to overperform their ability consistently. And for our defence its the basics that they don't have Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 32 minutes ago, Gazzaschicken said: There's clearly no more to get out of them though. You can't turn longstaff into a fernandinho, there's a limit based on ability and our team just doesn't have the ability or the fight to overperform their ability consistently. And for our defence its the basics that they don't have We've seen much, much more out of these players we've seen Willock score 7 in 7, Longstaff look good enough to be linked with Man U, Lascelles lead one of the most solid defences in the league. What you're saying is exactly what people were saying in defence of Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Ben said: Well that didn't last long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, ManDoon said: He did, he was like the CB whisperer. Made all our CBs look great. It helped that he played really defensive formations like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzaschicken Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, ManDoon said: You mitigate it though, otherwise there is zero point having a manager? Anyone off the street may as well be in charge in that case. So how do you do that? Play negative football with 30% possession? Bring back Bruce eh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Ben said: Good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzaschicken Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, ManDoon said: What makes you think I want bruce back? It’s not some binary thing that if you think maybe Howe isn’t getting it right that I want Bruce back. Sometimes negative football can be effective yes. Wolves play quite negatively. I'm not saying you personally want Bruce back im implying the style you are referring to is what Bruce was and got so heavily criticised for. Mitigating a lac of quality, howe has come in and tried to get us to play a slightly more expansive game 15 yards further up the pitch and the players can't do it. Wolves have much better players than us whatever way we play we don't have the quality for this league so howe is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. And I'd much rather go down giving it a go which was the first few games howe was in charge than being negative cause we don't have the quality to be negative as our main positions where we have serious quality issues are cbs and CMs. If you have a good defence then defend if you can't defend then attack but we seem to not have any of that which is why we need a full new team pretty much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 55 minutes ago, Gazzaschicken said: So how do you do that? Play negative football with 30% possession? Bring back Bruce eh Under Rafa we could at times be described as negative but it was effective, with a weaker squad than we have now. Under Bruce we were both negative and ineffective. That is what he was rightly criticised for. Under Howe we're equally ineffective (and have equally low possession statitics). Whether positive or negative what we need is a manager who can get us playing effective football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 4 hours ago, r0cafella said: He’s always been a walking mistake, he’s just a good example of Rafa getting more out of the Sum of the parts. He came with that reputation. Was considered a terrible signing but he surprised a lot of us. I think [this applies to a lot of our current squad] he realises he hit his peak, under Rafa, then Bruce brought them back to comfortable reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 40 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: Under Rafa we could at times be described as negative but it was effective, with a weaker squad than we have now. Under Bruce we were both negative and ineffective. That is what he was rightly criticised for. Under Howe we're equally ineffective (and have equally low possession statitics). Whether positive or negative what we need is a manager who can get us playing effective football. Not sure that's right mind, I thought I saw somewhere that we had 52% possession against Watford. That's never happening under Rafa or Bruce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, TRon said: Not sure that's right mind, I thought I saw somewhere that we had 52% possession against Watford. That's never happening under Rafa or Bruce. It's right, but it's a data sample of 10, 5 of which were against the best teams in the league. Our possession against the rest has been higher whenever I've seen it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 22 minutes ago, TRon said: Not sure that's right mind, I thought I saw somewhere that we had 52% possession against Watford. That's never happening under Rafa or Bruce. Under Bruce: West Ham H – 46% Villa A – 53% Southampton H – 36% Man U A – 36% Leeds H – 35% Watford A – 48% Wolves A – 48% Spurs H – 35% Average – 42.1% Under Howe: Brentford H – 52% Arsenal A – 34% Norwich H – 31% Burnley H – 48% Leicester A – 53% Liverpool A – 26% Man City – 28% Man U H – 31% Watford H – 52% Average – 39.4% Average discounting Norwich – 40.5% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, Jackie Broon said: Under Bruce: West Ham H – 46% Villa A – 53% Southampton H – 36% Man U A – 36% Leeds H – 35% Watford A – 48% Wolves A – 48% Spurs H – 35% Average – 42.1% Under Howe: Brentford H – 52% Arsenal A – 34% Norwich H – 31% Burnley H – 48% Leicester A – 53% Liverpool A – 26% Man City – 28% Man U H – 31% Watford H – 52% Average – 39.4% Average discounting Norwich – 40.5% Mad how the game where we’ve had the most of the ball we got stuffed 4-0. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWMag Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I think people are forgetting just how much influence our league position has had. Ever since the new owners came in we have been in the relegation zone if I remember correctly. Regarding the manager, yes it seemed to take a long time, but it’s an important decision to make. They obviously wanted to get someone of the highest quality possible, but our league position put a lot of people off. Therefore the process slows as they work their way down the list. There is no doubt in my mind that if we were mid table, Bruce would be gone sooner and a new man would have been in a lot quicker. It’s the same with transfers, we probably wouldn’t need to do much business in January if we were mid table, and therefore transfers could wait until the summer. We could then spend this time to do a thorough search for a DOF (which they are doing) and again I believe this is because they want to be sure they get the right man for a long term project. However, because of the position we are in, transfers are a necessity right now and the players we want to sign have reservations about coming, because potential relegation throws a spanner in the works. If we were mid table, recruiting players would be much easier. Everything they are doing is the best interests of the club, but it’s a simple fact that they took over the club at a bad time and we are in a bad position. There is an endless list of things that need doing and yes, curtain mistakes have been made but not intentionally and there has been some ridiculous over exaggerations both on here and social media. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Fantail Breeze said: Mad how the game where we’ve had the most of the ball we got stuffed 4-0. Mostly because they stood off and let us pass it around sideways and backwards for most of the first half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 18 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: Under Bruce: West Ham H – 46% Villa A – 53% Southampton H – 36% Man U A – 36% Leeds H – 35% Watford A – 48% Wolves A – 48% Spurs H – 35% Average – 42.1% Under Howe: Brentford H – 52% Arsenal A – 34% Norwich H – 31% Burnley H – 48% Leicester A – 53% Liverpool A – 26% Man City – 28% Man U H – 31% Watford H – 52% Average – 39.4% Average discounting Norwich – 40.5% Fair enough. Although Howe was complaining at the weekend we still tend to sit back as soon as we've taken the lead, so I think he's trying to change that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 All about perceptions as well, that Leicester match we looked all over the place, yet against Man United I felt like we dominated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Also, we all remember the Rodgers Swansea team and the whole we won the passing meme. I seem to remember the Cisse 2 Swansea 0 match essentially being: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I have no issue with pragmatic football. I do have issue with purposeless nothing football. Bruce served that up. Excuses every day and blamed everyone but himself. Rafa played intentionally and released the shackles when they were able to play properly on both ends of the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 6 hours ago, xLiaaamx said: Can't even arrange a tour in their own country. Ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dokko said: Can't even arrange a tour in their own country. Ffs. Or they're distancing themselves from an embarrassing failure, which might also be the reason why no Saudi sponsorship deals have been announced yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcnick Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: Or they're distancing themselves from an embarrassing failure, which might also be the reason why no Saudi sponsorship deals have been announced yet. Or sponsorship deals aren’t rated at fair market value in the championship, so they are waiting to sign the deal until next season which would then write off what we would lose when relegated Edited January 17, 2022 by nufcnick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE27 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said: Or they're distancing themselves from an embarrassing failure, which might also be the reason why no Saudi sponsorship deals have been announced yet. Well that's a cheery thing to see on blue Monday isn't it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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