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11 hours ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

Because Steve fucking Bruce managed to keep this dog dirt squad up last season. We were drawing by fine margins under Bruce this season, it should only take a moderate improvement to turn those draws into wins. Howe hasn't managed to find that moderate improvement over Steve fucking Bruce, that is inexcusable.

 

 

 

Steve bruce kept us up with massive luck we got 16 points in our last 8 games if you judge him by the rest of the season it was shocking. We released 5 to 6 players in the summer and made 1 recruit who was on loan with us last season so our squad is a year older, with no fresh faces. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, ManDoon said:

It is aye, but I still think we can be getting better out of the squad. The idea is the manager gets more out of the players.

There's clearly no more to get out of them though. You can't turn longstaff into a fernandinho, there's a limit based on ability and our team just doesn't have the ability or the fight to overperform their ability consistently. And for our defence its the basics that they don't have

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32 minutes ago, Gazzaschicken said:

There's clearly no more to get out of them though. You can't turn longstaff into a fernandinho, there's a limit based on ability and our team just doesn't have the ability or the fight to overperform their ability consistently. And for our defence its the basics that they don't have

 

We've seen much, much more out of these players we've seen Willock score 7 in 7, Longstaff look good enough to be linked with Man U, Lascelles lead one of the most solid defences in the league.

 

What you're saying is exactly what people were saying in defence of Bruce.

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12 minutes ago, ManDoon said:

What makes you think I want bruce back? It’s not some binary thing that if you think maybe Howe isn’t getting it right that I want Bruce back. Sometimes negative football can be effective yes. Wolves play quite negatively. 

I'm not saying you personally want Bruce back im implying the style you are referring to is what Bruce was and got so heavily criticised for. Mitigating a lac of quality, howe has come in and tried to get us to play a slightly more expansive game 15 yards further up the pitch and the players can't do it. Wolves have much better players than us whatever way we play we don't have the quality for this league so howe is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. And I'd much rather go down giving it a go which was the first few games howe was in charge than being negative cause we don't have the quality to be negative as our main positions where we have serious quality issues are cbs and CMs. If you have a good defence then defend if you can't defend then attack but we seem to not have any of that which is why we need a full new team pretty much. 

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55 minutes ago, Gazzaschicken said:

So how do you do that? Play negative football with 30% possession? Bring back Bruce eh

 

Under Rafa we could at times be described as negative but it was effective, with a weaker squad than we have now.

 

Under Bruce we were both negative and ineffective. That is what he was rightly criticised for.

 

Under Howe we're equally ineffective (and have equally low possession statitics).

 

Whether positive or negative what we need is a manager who can get us playing effective football.

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4 hours ago, r0cafella said:

He’s always been a walking mistake, he’s just a good example of Rafa getting more out of the Sum of the parts. 
 

 

He came with that reputation. Was considered a terrible signing but he surprised a lot of us. 

I think [this applies to a lot of our current squad] he realises he hit his peak, under Rafa, then Bruce brought them back to comfortable reality.

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40 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

Under Rafa we could at times be described as negative but it was effective, with a weaker squad than we have now.

 

Under Bruce we were both negative and ineffective. That is what he was rightly criticised for.

 

Under Howe we're equally ineffective (and have equally low possession statitics).

 

Whether positive or negative what we need is a manager who can get us playing effective football.

 

Not sure that's right mind, I thought I saw somewhere that we had 52% possession against Watford. That's never happening under Rafa or Bruce. 

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5 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Not sure that's right mind, I thought I saw somewhere that we had 52% possession against Watford. That's never happening under Rafa or Bruce. 

It's right, but it's a data sample of 10, 5 of which were against the best teams in the league. Our possession against the rest has been higher whenever I've seen it.

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22 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Not sure that's right mind, I thought I saw somewhere that we had 52% possession against Watford. That's never happening under Rafa or Bruce. 

 

Under Bruce:

West Ham H – 46%

Villa A – 53%

Southampton H – 36%

Man U A – 36%

Leeds H – 35%

Watford A – 48%

Wolves A – 48%

Spurs H – 35%

Average – 42.1%

 

Under Howe:

Brentford H – 52%

Arsenal A – 34%

Norwich H – 31%

Burnley H – 48%

Leicester A – 53%

Liverpool A – 26%

Man City – 28%

Man U H – 31%

Watford H – 52%

Average – 39.4%

Average discounting Norwich  – 40.5%

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Just now, Jackie Broon said:

 

Under Bruce:

West Ham H – 46%

Villa A – 53%

Southampton H – 36%

Man U A – 36%

Leeds H – 35%

Watford A – 48%

Wolves A – 48%

Spurs H – 35%

Average – 42.1%

 

Under Howe:

Brentford H – 52%

Arsenal A – 34%

Norwich H – 31%

Burnley H – 48%

Leicester A – 53%

Liverpool A – 26%

Man City – 28%

Man U H – 31%

Watford H – 52%

Average – 39.4%

Average discounting Norwich  – 40.5%

 

Mad how the game where we’ve had the most of the ball we got stuffed 4-0.

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I think people are forgetting just how much influence our league position has had. Ever since the new owners came in we have been in the relegation zone if I remember correctly. 
 

Regarding the manager, yes it seemed to take a long time, but it’s an important decision to make. They obviously wanted to get someone of the highest quality possible, but our league position put a lot of people off. Therefore the process slows as they work their way down the list. There is no doubt in my mind that if we were mid table, Bruce would be gone sooner and a new man would have been in a lot quicker. It’s the same with transfers, we probably wouldn’t need to do much business in January if we were mid table, and therefore transfers could wait until the summer. We could then spend this time to do a thorough search for a DOF (which they are doing) and again I believe this is because they want to be sure they get the right man for a long term project. However, because of the position we are in, transfers are a necessity right now and the players we want to sign have reservations about coming, because potential relegation throws a spanner in the works. If we were mid table, recruiting players would be much easier. 
 

Everything they are doing is the best interests of the club, but it’s a simple fact that they took over the club at a bad time and we are in a bad position. There is an endless list of things that need doing and yes, curtain mistakes have been made but not intentionally and there has been some ridiculous over exaggerations both on here and social media. 

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18 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

Under Bruce:

West Ham H – 46%

Villa A – 53%

Southampton H – 36%

Man U A – 36%

Leeds H – 35%

Watford A – 48%

Wolves A – 48%

Spurs H – 35%

Average – 42.1%

 

Under Howe:

Brentford H – 52%

Arsenal A – 34%

Norwich H – 31%

Burnley H – 48%

Leicester A – 53%

Liverpool A – 26%

Man City – 28%

Man U H – 31%

Watford H – 52%

Average – 39.4%

Average discounting Norwich  – 40.5%

 

Fair enough. Although Howe was complaining at the weekend we still tend to sit back as soon as we've taken the lead, so I think he's trying to change that. 

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I have no issue with pragmatic football. I do have issue with purposeless nothing football. Bruce served that up. Excuses every day and blamed everyone but himself. Rafa played intentionally and released the shackles when they were able to play properly on both ends of the pitch. 

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4 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

Or they're distancing themselves from an embarrassing failure, which might also be the reason why no Saudi sponsorship deals have been announced yet. 

Or sponsorship deals aren’t rated at fair market value in the championship, so they are waiting to sign the deal until next season which would then write off what we would lose when relegated 

 

 

Edited by nufcnick

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3 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

Or they're distancing themselves from an embarrassing failure, which might also be the reason why no Saudi sponsorship deals have been announced yet. 

 

Well that's a cheery thing to see on blue Monday isn't it [emoji38]

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