PIF and RB Sports & Media

[The Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Is it not a hollow gesture for someone saying they care about  our owners human rights record but then ploughing their money into one of their businesses ?

 

Your basically accusing Reuben of being a hypocrite for donating to charity, everyone’s a fucking hypocrite get over yourself man.

 

 

 

I've only recently moved back up North, so I haven't really been in a position to plough my money into the club. As I say though, everyone will have their own position on PIF and how they want to go about supporting the club, there isn't a right or a wrong answer.

 

You've called me a prick and told me to get off my high horse, but I'm not the one talking down to people or calling them names for taking up a position I don't agree with

[Whitley mag]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

I've only recently moved back up North, so I haven't really been in a position to plough my money into the club. As I say though, everyone will have their own position on PIF and how they want to go about supporting the club, there isn't a right or a wrong answer.

 

You've called me a prick and told me to get off my high horse, but I'm not the one talking down to people or calling them names for taking up a position I don't agree with

Just as there isn’t a right or wrong with Reuben donating to the food bank.

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, Whitley mag said:

Just as there isn’t a right or wrong with Reuben donating to the food bank.

 

[Kid Icarus]

If everyone's a hypocrite, how can you or anyone ever criticise anything and how can anything ever get better?

 

Yes, we're all hypocrites in some way,  largely because it's nigh on impossible to live your life without being one on some level, but unless it's egregious that shouldn't ever be a reason to point out how things could be better. 

 

It's the same old tired 'yet you live in a society, curious!' point. The individualisation of systemic problems and saying  'oh well If you don't like it, why don't you make a change in yourself?' is there to misdirect you away from the companies and ultra-rich who are huge cogs in a system designed to benefit them at all of our expense.

 

Whether it's not littering, recycling, your carbon footprint, electric cars or a whole host of other things, it's all bullshit that they know doesn't even scrape the surface and wouldn't even if everyone did it. You're making their argument for them while they're ripping you and everyone off to your face and robbing our children and grandchildren of their futures.

 

Criticising what our owners do is fair game, they're not untouchable or immune to criticism and everyone is entitled to their opinion. If, as is often said "they're just like us" then there's no reason they can't be criticised like the rest of us. 

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out that donating to the Tories then to the food banks they've created is them having their cake and eating it. There's nothing wrong with saying that them turning that charity into a game is crass.

 

Reaping the benefits of funding the problem then reaping the benefits (through tax and PR) of donating to the charities the problems they've funded have created. It's not rocket science, it's a tale as old as time. There's nothing wrong with criticising that and not wanting that. Whether it's our owners doing it or any other company or 1%er is irrelevant really, the problem is that anyone can do it, not just them.

 

Of course they'll vote in their interests, it's no surprise they're voting in their class interests. I just wish the working class would and stop excusing this bollocks, but that's another point really.

 

What I do think is pure cognitive dissonance though is getting all smitten over how Staveley and co are apparently selfless and charitable, but then immediately turning around and saying 'well of course they donate in their own interests!' when their Tory party donations are pointed out. 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[TheBrownBottle]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Of course they'll vote in their interests, it's no surprise they're voting in their class interests. I just wish the working class would and stop excusing this bollocks, but that's another point really.

100% - that was the point which raised my eyebrow, but I didn’t bother to raise owt further.  The idea that ‘everyone votes in the own self-interest’ is plainly untrue - the working class certainly doesn’t in the numbers which would prevent the abuses meted out

[BoSelecta]

One of the many privileges of being extremely rich is you can vote against your own financial interests with negligible impact on the comfort of your life (if you believe what’s better for the country may impact you personally). They support the tories on an idealogical level, saying they have to vote Tory for their own best interests is a lazy excuse. 
 

21 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

his family invest millions in the Newcastle economy supporting all parts of the community in creating jobs.

 

The trickle down defence. They invest for their own betterment not some altruistic campaign to improve our city. Why are you angrily defending billionaires against a reasonable point.

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

9 minutes ago, BoSelecta said:

One of the many privileges of being extremely rich is you can vote against your own financial interests with negligible impact on the comfort of your life (if you believe what’s better for the country may impact you personally). They support the tories on an idealogical level, saying they have to vote Tory for their own best interests is a lazy excuse. 
 

 

The trickle down defence. They invest for their own betterment not some altruistic campaign to improve our city. Why are you angrily defending billionaires against a reasonable point.

Who doesn't / wouldn't invest for their own & their families benefit / betterment? I know I do & at the same time sponsoring many local charities, boxing clubs, football teams, etc which I cede all help promote my businesses, this may or may not be deemed as altruism depends on your view I suppose but I do know the help we give is needed & i'm told very much appreciated & valued / used well. suppose everyone will view it differently, who knows really ? 

 

[BoSelecta]

8 minutes ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Who doesn't / wouldn't invest for their own & their families benefit / betterment? I know I do & at the same time sponsoring many local charities, boxing clubs, football teams, etc which I cede all help promote my businesses, this may or may not be deemed as altruism depends on your view I suppose but I do know the help we give is needed & i'm told very much appreciated & valued / used well. suppose everyone will view it differently, who knows really ? 

 

Just to unpick my point a little I was referring to the extremely wealthy having the privilege to vote against their own self interest with no meaningful impact on their lives. If Jamie Reuben loses a billion or two off his networth he’s still got more money than he and his entire family could spend in a life time.

 

Good for you if you’ve built a successful business and choose to support your community. The criticism above is around these guys doing charity work while supporting a government which brought about the conditions these charities fight to alleviate and, crucially, they have so much money they could support a fairer government while still being entirely insulated from reality in a cushion of unfathomable wealth. 

 

 

[Danh1]

17 minutes ago, Ash2579 said:

Looking forward to the sponsorship announcements! I hope the wait is due to renegotiating a higher value now CL has been secured!

 

wonder if the new kit will get an outing tomorrow? Probably not, as they’d have to use new sponsor?

Aye I cannot see that happening at all (wearing it tomorrow).

[RodneyCisse]

42 minutes ago, Danh1 said:

Aye I cannot see that happening at all (wearing it tomorrow).

Wont see it until June when fun88 is out the door.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by RodneyCisse

[TheBrownBottle]

3 hours ago, RUHRLYASLEEVESUP said:

Who doesn't / wouldn't invest for their own & their families benefit / betterment? I know I do & at the same time sponsoring many local charities, boxing clubs, football teams, etc which I cede all help promote my businesses, this may or may not be deemed as altruism depends on your view I suppose but I do know the help we give is needed & i'm told very much appreciated & valued / used well. suppose everyone will view it differently, who knows really ? 

 

It isn’t altruism, then.  It’s self-serving.  That’s not to say what you’ve described can’t be a communal good - but it is the perfect encapsulation of why charity at its core is at best capitalism playing pretend at having a conscience.  It is there to make the giver feel good - to salve their soul - yet many of those ‘giving’ will happily vote in low-taxation govts to better suit their bottom line at the expense of others.  

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by TheBrownBottle

[astraguy]

Would people be against the ground getting sponsored? not like the Ashley era but it would increase revenue 

[bowlingcrofty]

Wouldn’t be against a sponsor that keeps SJP as the stadium name, or each individual stand being sponsored.

 

“SJP in partnership with Noon” or something along those lines.

[David Edgar]

24 minutes ago, astraguy said:

Would people be against the ground getting sponsored? not like the Ashley era but it would increase revenue 

 

Nah, no problem with a sponsor as it will always be SJP even if the signs have a company name on it.

 

This is a money game and we should exploit every avenue.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by David Edgar

[PauloGeordio]

St James Park powered by Aramco

[TRon]

Funny I was thinking about this today, on hearing someone describing low value jobs vs high value jobs which require more intelligence. The point he was making was that many labourer jobs are menial, so get less pay, but does that make them low value? A high rank solicitor or a surgeon can earn plenty more than the average Joe on account of his skills, but he would still need his roof tiles replaced, or his drains cleared. Or do they do that stuff themselves?

 

I have always been drawn to the socialist models in other countries where there was at least the idea of equality, although I can see where these have maybe led to less growth because there's less incentive for change than there is in the capitalist system.

[Stifler]

Many labouring jobs are well paying though.

You’ll make more money on a building site or manufacturing factory than you will in shop or a call centre.

[Keegans Export]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

Funny I was thinking about this today, on hearing someone describing low value jobs vs high value jobs which require more intelligence. The point he was making was that many labourer jobs are menial, so get less pay, but does that make them low value? A high rank solicitor or a surgeon can earn plenty more than the average Joe on account of his skills, but he would still need his roof tiles replaced, or his drains cleared. Or do they do that stuff themselves?

 

I have always been drawn to the socialist models in other countries where there was at least the idea of equality, although I can see where these have maybe led to less growth because there's less incentive for change than there is in the capitalist system.

It's partly that there are less people with the ability to become a high ranking solicitor or surgeon than a drain clearer.

 

Its not really about the value of the job - if you have a hole in your roof the best surgeon in the world had no value to you whatsoever - its just the size of the pool of people who can do that job for you. Supply and demand basically. 

[TRon]

8 minutes ago, Stifler said:

Many labouring jobs are well paying though.

You’ll make more money on a building site or manufacturing factory than you will in shop or a call centre.

 

Isn't that because we just outsource some jobs like call centres and manufacturing to third world countries rather than pay the going rate here?

 

 

[Tiresias]

Plenty of well paid building jobs, first of all developers always building so always demand, and equally lot of proper skilled trades in building trades, equally lot of jobs that need a good head for safety etc. 

 

Real low paid is things like picking, shop jobs, or just sitting on a production line sticking stuff in boxes

[TRon]

9 hours ago, Tiresias said:

Plenty of well paid building jobs, first of all developers always building so always demand, and equally lot of proper skilled trades in building trades, equally lot of jobs that need a good head for safety etc. 

 

Real low paid is things like picking, shop jobs, or just sitting on a production line sticking stuff in boxes

 

So what would happen if people stopped doing those jobs? Easily replaceable right?

 

 

[80]

5 hours ago, TRon said:

 

So what would happen if people stopped doing those jobs? Easily replaceable right?

 

 

If it wasn't strike-type condition then yes. If it was, different story, of course. There again, that's what immigration is there to fix. Often times, the 'necessary skills' they bring to our economy are desperation, low self regard and optimism, misplaced or otherwise. This isn't far right anti-immigrant rhetoric, for those who aren't aware.

 

Look, bottom line, whether we like it or not is this: if I take a brain surgeon's family hostage and threaten to execute them all unless he successfully cleans a toilet, that toilet will be spotless. If I do the same thing to a toilet cleaner unless he successfully removes a brain tumor, the patient will most likely die. That's it, in a nutshell.

 

I do take your point about the value of different jobs. For 5 minutes everyone was really struck by which workers were and weren't considered key workers during the covid lockdowns. Surprisingly, account managers, graphic designers and SEO specialists weren't included in the list. Then it became uncomfortable so it got forgotten.

[Groundhog63]

On 26/05/2023 at 10:24, Whitley mag said:

Just as there isn’t a right or wrong with Reuben donating to the food bank.

Yes there is. It's wrong. Hypocritical and perverse. 

It's like setting fire to someone's house then giving yourself a huge pat on the back when you hand them a bucket of water. 

Tories AND tory voters shouldn't be anywhere near charities defending swathes of the population from the very misery they, themselves, voted for. 

[Guest]

Interesting read 

[r0cafella]

6 minutes ago, Jack27 said:

Interesting read 

Wasn’t expecting this from Samuel, he is of course right FFP is such a scam.