Fantail Breeze Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Just now, HTT II said: State murder does not prevent people killing people, it’s barbaric, Inhumane and fucking a shame on society, regardless of say how evil a person is. Did Ted Bundy deserve to die, of course he did, but not at the hands of the state or society, I’d rather lock them away for life than be all for executing them. As for Saudi Arabia, I’ve said it many a time, whatever their crimes, and I’m not justifying them here, they are some way behind many societies and nations including our own who not so long ago would hang people, chop people’s heads off and today, are one of the major players in war, human atrocities, crime and other evil shit. That’s the way of the world sadly. This, this and this. They’re no more evil than our ancestors. They haven’t modernised, like many other places and cultures. Two wrongs don’t make a right though, obviously. It’s abhorrent, like it was years ago here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, hakka said: I would frame people killing out of revenge or anger as nutcases though. I've never considered murdering someone to get back at them or because I'm feeling angry. This could be hard to say without going through that actual experience. If someone killed a family member, god knows how you or I would react. Hopefully non of us are put in that situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 30 minutes ago, Stottie said: Just regarding this and the Abramovich thread, but what Saudi Arabia do is indefensible. It is also indefensible to sell them arms like the UK does. What Israel does to Palestine is also indefensible and most importantly has been going on the longest, but saying it gets you labelled an antisemite. While I do not like our owners, I think its a bit premature to be massively sounding the sportswashing siren, because they have not sunk an Abramovich/PSG/City level of spending in yet. What we've seen so far has been more akin to an attack of competence following years of mismanagement. A bit like Liverpool's new owners (world record center half and goalkeeper remember) vs. their previous ones. It may happen someday, but they have not used a money bazooka to buy shiny things that win over gullible people and make a mockery of the league as some kind of fair competition. We may have spent a good whack in January, but Aston Villa signed two players on wages we wouldn't pay. We got their reject left back. That's a big difference to how Chelsea or City started off. Whatever we think of their society, the main thing is they don't try and impose their values on us, and on that score they have been very respectful. I think that's as much as we can ask of PIF, who are an investment firm at the end of the day, I don't think they have much influence on the penal code in Saudi Arabia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dembacha Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, reefatoon said: This could be hard to say without going through that actual experience. If someone killed a family member, god knows how you or I would react. Hopefully non of us are put in that situation. What type of crime would push a rational person to go as far as killing another person out of revenge though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, hakka said: I would frame people killing out of revenge or anger as nutcases though. I've never considered murdering someone to get back at them or because I'm feeling angry. If someone raped my sister. I'd likely kill them. Guess I'm a nutcase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 hour ago, neesy111 said: The ignorance in this post is astounding. Holiday camp FFS. You think modern prison is hard time like? If you do then the ignorance on your side is mind blowing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantail Breeze Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Just now, RS said: You think modern prison is hard time like? If you do then the ignorance on your side is mind blowing. Assuming you’re basing that on the Daily Mail rather than actual first hand experience? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, reefatoon said: This could be hard to say without going through that actual experience. If someone killed a family member, god knows how you or I would react. Hopefully non of us are put in that situation. Of course there are extremes. If someone murdered my 6 year old daughter I'd probably kill them if I could. But also I wouldn't give two shits about the death penalty at that point, which is the point we are making about it not being a deterrent. Extreme reasons to kill then death penalty is no deterrent. Kill because your a nutcases then death penalty is no deterrent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Heron said: If someone raped my sister. I'd likely kill them. Guess I'm a nutcase. Same here, but a death penalty wouldn’t prevent me from doing so in that instance and that is an extreme example, most who commit heinous crimes of murder regardless of circumstance do so mainly because they are psychopaths and again, a death penalty wouldn’t be a deterrent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Dembacha said: What type of crime would push a rational person to go as far as killing another person out of revenge though? grief hits people in different ways, so I don’t know what threshold people will hold. Was watching a documentary on the moors murders, and those poor parents and family members who had to listen to recordings of their child being tortured, abused and murdered must have been absolutely horrific, and personally I don’t think I would have called them nutcases for wanting to exact revenge if they had the chance. Though not murder, I was also thinking about the Dutch keeper Robert Enke there who committed suicide after his daughter died. Such a horrible thing to go through and grief of that magnitude must be so hard for people to cope with. It’s quite easy for us to say things without going through these things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Heron said: If someone raped my sister. I'd likely kill them. Guess I'm a nutcase. Extreme provocation is a different case. I'd kill as well, regardless of death penalty. See how it's not a deterrent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said: Assuming you’re basing that on the Daily Mail rather than actual first hand experience? Of course. I’m your quintessential serial complainer who harkens for a return to the 70’s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, HTT II said: Same here, but a death penalty wouldn’t prevent me from doing so in that instance and that is an extreme example, most who commit heinous crimes of murder regardless of circumstance do so mainly because they are psychopaths and again, a death penalty wouldn’t be a deterrent. You've summed it up better than I have. That's the point I'm trying to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dembacha Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Heron said: If someone raped my sister. I'd likely kill them. Guess I'm a nutcase. Would you still try to kill that person if they were in jail, police custody or even 5 years after the person is released from jail? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest reefatoon Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Dembacha said: Would you still try to kill that person if they were in jail, police custody or even 5 years after the person is released from jail? you or I don’t know because we haven’t been that situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I think the debate around the death penalty for child murderers is a bit of a separate one to that around capital punishment in Saudi Arabia, where you can be put to death for adultery or witchcraft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookidge Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Love seeing this thread at the top on match day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, BlueStar said: I think the debate around the death penalty for child murderers is a bit of a separate one to that around capital punishment in Saudi Arabia, where you can be put to death for adultery or witchcraft. Both probably belong in the chat forum tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, BlueStar said: I think the debate around the death penalty for child murderers in the UK is a bit of a separate one to that around capital punishment in Saudi Arabia, where you can be put to death for adultery or witchcraft. Do they get a fair trial in Saudi Arabia? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, neesy111 said: Do they get a fair trial in Saudi Arabia? Is it possible to be fairly executed for witchcraft? For the death penalty you need a few male witnesses (presumably two male witnesses saying you did it outrank 20 female witnesses who say you didn't as their testimony isn't allowed) Saudi Arabia's War on Witchcraft A special unit of the religious police pursues magical crime aggressively, and the convicted face death sentences. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/08/saudi-arabias-war-on-witchcraft/278701/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Pardew was always going on about needing that little bit of magic, sounds like he’s got some crimes to answer for in KSA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, gbandit said: Pardew was always going on about needing that little bit of magic, sounds like he’s got some crimes to answer for in KSA Could be a clue as to why PIF appointed Beheddie Howe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHoob Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I'll probably explain this badly but I do think that 'sportswashing' gets thrown about a bit lazily at times as a bit of an easy criticism without much thought behind it. Sportswashing obviously exists, and no doubt Saudi in part at least have purchased Newcastle as a way of raising their profile, perhaps with Newcastle being a very public face of their investment strategy with diversification, further investment into sport etc. But I don't buy that they've bought us and are potentially going to be spending billions just to have Gary the roofer from Benwell defend them on twitter under some BBC news articles, it just doesn't really make much sense and becomes a very easy to stick to beat us as fans with, which is where I've got a problem with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBingo Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 15 hours ago, triggs said: It's worthy of comment, especially in this thread Well this might upset a few, but as proud as I am about Howe & the team, I've felt pretty ashamed about our Saudi ownership over the last few days....particularly the mass beheading and the more I have read about Yemen. The amount of NUFC fans on Twitter defending the Saudis has been equally grim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 40 minutes ago, TRon said: Could be a clue as to why PIF appointed Beheddie Howe. You see, I wouldn't mind if the mackems came up with something like this instead of "ISIS United" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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