The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[Heron]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I was born in Newcastle in 1892.  I’ve supported the club since my dad first took me when I was five.  Trust me, I remember it well enough. 

 

This is how I read it.

 

Was like "check out the 131 year old superfan on a football forum"

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, Heron said:

 

This is how I read it.

 

Was like "check out the 131 year old superfan on a football forum"

It feels like I’m as old as the club mind

[Dancing Brave]

2 hours ago, Chris_R said:

Each to their own, but I'm fucking miles away from that.

 

Under Ashley, now that was 'not caring' when the opposition equalised. I'd shrug, maybe even laugh. A few times I even bloody cheered. Cheered my own team conceding, that's what he drove me to. I'll never forgive that.

 

I was livid when Liverpool beat us this season. Properly threw my toys out the pram, and refused to even engage with any football-related content for days. And much though it hurt, you know what? I'll take that hurt any day of the week compared to how I felt under almost all of Ashley's tenure, where I was feeling almost nothing for a team I've followed since I was old enough to kick a ball.

 

I got over the Liverpool game in a few days, and got back to hoping again. Under Ashley, that unbearable feeling of apathy gnawed away at my soul, every day for over a decade.

This is one of the very best posts in recent times that I've read on this forum.

You nailed it Chris R

 

 

 

[Pata]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I was born in Newcastle in 1982.  I’ve supported the club since my dad first took me when I was five.  Trust me, I remember it well enough. 

 

I meant this forum, sir. Thank you for your service. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Pata

[TheBrownBottle]

3 hours ago, Pata said:

 

I meant this forum, sir. Thank you for your service. 

 

 

 

You’re welcome  - and it really wasn’t clear to me that you meant the forum, apologies 

[St. Maximin]

Tbh rightly or wrongly I think KSA’s growing prominence in football over the last 12 months has made me both more annoyed at them but also more accepting of our takeover, like we’re far less of an exception. 
 

It is of course frustrating seeing a lot of ‘whataboutery’ and KSA apologetics from small sections of our fanbase. But we shouldn’t forget the fact that every football club has complete and utter idiots supporting them, no matter how likeable the club is otherwise. 

[Coffee_Johnny]

12 hours ago, Chris_R said:

Each to their own, but I'm fucking miles away from that.

 

Under Ashley, now that was 'not caring' when the opposition equalised. I'd shrug, maybe even laugh. A few times I even bloody cheered. Cheered my own team conceding, that's what he drove me to. I'll never forgive that.

 

I was livid when Liverpool beat us this season. Properly threw my toys out the pram, and refused to even engage with any football-related content for days. And much though it hurt, you know what? I'll take that hurt any day of the week compared to how I felt under almost all of Ashley's tenure, where I was feeling almost nothing for a team I've followed since I was old enough to kick a ball.

 

I got over the Liverpool game in a few days, and got back to hoping again. Under Ashley, that unbearable feeling of apathy gnawed away at my soul, every day for over a decade.

I think you have captured the feelings of many, Chris. You certainly have mine. 

[oldtype]

I do think the more the memory of Ashley fades and the more we get used to having a “normal” football club, the more grating the idea of Saudi ownership is going to become for a lot of people. Especially if results on the pitch are not consistently great.

[Whitley mag]

Saudis over American ownership everyday for me, couldn’t give a flying fuck about the other stuff. When the rest of the world decides they don’t want PIF’s money I might re-consider my view then.

[Terrymac1966]

On 22/09/2023 at 20:48, Chris_R said:

Each to their own, but I'm fucking miles away from that.

 

Under Ashley, now that was 'not caring' when the opposition equalised. I'd shrug, maybe even laugh. A few times I even bloody cheered. Cheered my own team conceding, that's what he drove me to. I'll never forgive that.

 

I was livid when Liverpool beat us this season. Properly threw my toys out the pram, and refused to even engage with any football-related content for days. And much though it hurt, you know what? I'll take that hurt any day of the week compared to how I felt under almost all of Ashley's tenure, where I was feeling almost nothing for a team I've followed since I was old enough to kick a ball.

 

I got over the Liverpool game in a few days, and got back to hoping again. Under Ashley, that unbearable feeling of apathy gnawed away at my soul, every day for over a decade.

Was chatting to a group of City fans in Keswick early August about a year before the takeover. They asked how excited we were about the new season and were shocked by my response which was in the whole of the football leagues both professional and non league Newcastle were the only group of supporters without any hope or belief in the new season and escaping relegation was our eternal project....they actually felt the pain and it dawned on them what Ashley had done to a potentially huge club and fanbase......still think city have some of ourselves at heart ?

[et tu brute]

1 hour ago, Whitley mag said:

Saudis over American ownership everyday for me, couldn’t give a flying fuck about the other stuff. When the rest of the world decides they don’t want PIF’s money I might re-consider my view then.

My thoughts exactly also

[Wandy]

Saudi ownership doesn't bother me in the slightest but I would never try to defend their regime. Not gonna lie though, I chortled when I read that quote from Bin Salman about sportswashing the other day. Anyone who basically tells the western media to go fuck themselves gets a thumbs up from me.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Wandy

[RUHRLYASLEEVESUP]

12 hours ago, Whitley mag said:

Saudis over American ownership everyday for me, couldn’t give a flying fuck about the other stuff. When the rest of the world decides they don’t want PIF’s money I might re-consider my view then.

Yes precisely thoughts also 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by RUHRLYASLEEVESUP

[WilliamPS]

The claims of “we’ve got our club back” were always going to ring hollow. NUFC will now become a football mega brand, like Man City or Man Utd, we’re fans are customers and TV deals in Asia more important than local supporters. That is the price of a good team on the pitch. City are unrecognisable from the club they used to be - as is a lot of their fan base.

 

The only way to have success in the PL without being a brand with a football club attached is if you are taken over by a super rich fan - the Brighton /Leicester model - and that has a ceiling based on the owners wealth.

 

Just wait until the existing fan base are referred to as ‘legacy fans’!

 

People can decide for themselves whether that’s a price worth paying, the alternative is a midtable PL existence at best. For some the CL and competing for trophies will be worth it, for other it won’t.

[WilliamPS]

10 hours ago, Wandy said:

Saudi ownership doesn't bother me in the slightest but I would never try to defend their regime. Not gonna lie though, I chortled when I read that quote from Bin Salman about sportswashing the other day. Anyone who basically tells the Western media to go fuck themselves gets a thumbs up from me.

 

A free press challenging what a dictator says is a bad thing? Should they be like the Saudi press and have their hands chopped off for asking awkward questions?

 

If the Saudis want to play with western toys like the PGA golf and PL football then they get the press scrutiny 

[Wandy]

20 minutes ago, WilliamPS said:

 

A free press challenging what a dictator says is a bad thing? Should they be like the Saudi press and have their hands chopped off for asking awkward questions?

 

If the Saudis want to play with western toys like the PGA golf and PL football then they get the press scrutiny 

 

I have nothing against scrutiny but the whole concept of sportswashing is a load of bollocks. Its a term that was probably invented by a bored western-based journalist with a superiority complex, conveniently ignoring all of the ills of western society.

 

If sportswashing was an actual policy by the Saudis then its doing a pretty terrible job. Instead of cleansing their image and helping people forget about all of the controversial policies they deploy, it's actually drawn far more scrutiny and criticism of those policies.

 

The truth is that they don't give a monkey's what the west thinks of them, hence Bin Salman's remarks the other day. Their actions are all about power play, getting a strong foothold in world politics and securing the long-term future of their country. Whether people in the west like their methods of doing this is neither here nor there to them.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Wandy

[Wandy]

26 minutes ago, WilliamPS said:

The claims of “we’ve got our club back” were always going to ring hollow. NUFC will now become a football mega brand, like Man City or Man Utd, we’re fans are customers and TV deals in Asia more important than local supporters. That is the price of a good team on the pitch. City are unrecognisable from the club they used to be - as is a lot of their fan base.

 

The only way to have success in the PL without being a brand with a football club attached is if you are taken over by a super rich fan - the Brighton /Leicester model - and that has a ceiling based on the owners wealth.

 

Just wait until the existing fan base are referred to as ‘legacy fans’!

 

People can decide for themselves whether that’s a price worth paying, the alternative is a midtable PL existence at best. For some the CL and competing for trophies will be worth it, for other it won’t.

 

You never hear Man Utd and Man City fans living in Manchester complaining that their success has resulted in them "losing" their club, and you never hear it from Scousers living in Liverpool either.

[WilliamPS]

1 hour ago, Wandy said:

 

I have nothing against scrutiny but the whole concept of sportswashing is a load of bollocks. Its a term that was probably invented by a bored western-based journalist with a superiority complex, conveniently ignoring all of the ills of western society.

 

If sportswashing was an actual policy by the Saudis then its doing a pretty terrible job. Instead of cleansing their image and helping people forget about all of the controversial policies they deploy, it's actually drawn far more scrutiny and criticism of those policies.

 

The truth is that they don't give a monkey's what the west thinks of them, hence Bin Salman's remarks the other day. Their actions are all about power play, getting a strong foothold in world politics and securing the long-term future of their country. Whether people in the west like their methods of doing this is neither here nor there to them.

 

 

 

They’ve certainly managed to get you defending them.

 

 

[WilliamPS]

1 hour ago, Wandy said:

 

You never hear Man Utd and Man City fans living in Manchester complaining that their success has resulted in them "losing" their club, and you never hear it from Scousers living in Liverpool either.

Man Utd fans complain constantly about what they have became - some fans even made a whole new club!

 

First time I’ve ever heard anyone claim Liverpool fans don’t complain either. They have whole fan groups to pressure the owners about the soul of the club (groups like spirit of shankly)

 

(see also the protests about the super league)

[Jackie Broon]

57 minutes ago, Wandy said:

 

You never hear Man Utd and Man City fans living in Manchester complaining that their success has resulted in them "losing" their club, and you never hear it from Scousers living in Liverpool either.

 

I think there is a sizable minority of Man City fans who feel that, Man Utd and Liverpool's megabranddom is so long standing that very few will remember anything different.

 

In my view though we lost our club long ago, long pre-Ashley. Really there was only a very short period where the club felt like it was 'ours', between John Hall buying the club and the stock market floatation. The nadir was Ashley, but before that we had the influence of the bankers resulting in Keegan leaving and the team he had built being torn apart. Then the Halls turned from saviours into leaches stealing the family silver in dividends and then the final nail in the coffin was becoming a zombie club under Ashley.

 

I have massive qualms about our owners, from the right-wing politics of Staveley and Reuben to the human rights abuses to the insidious influence of Saudi Arabia on global politics and ideology, but, in football terms, I feel far more connected to the club now than I have since that brief period of 1992-97.

[Wandy]

3 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

I think there is a sizable minority of Man City fans who feel that, Man Utd and Liverpool's megabranddom is so long standing that very few will remember anything different.

 

In my view though we lost our club long ago, long pre-Ashley. Really there was only a very short period where the club felt like it was 'ours', between John Hall buying the club and the stock market floatation. The nadir was Ashley, but before that we had the influence of the bankers resulting in Keegan leaving and the team he had built being torn apart. Then the Halls turned from saviours into leaches stealing the family silver in dividends and then the final nail in the coffin was becoming a zombie club under Ashley.

 

I have massive qualms about our owners, from the right-wing politics of Staveley and Reuben to the human rights abuses to the insidious influence of Saudi Arabia on global politics and ideology, but, in football terms, I feel far more connected to the club now than I have since that brief period of 1992-97.

 

You still used the term "minority" though, which indicates that most of their support still feel the same connection.

 

The truth is that "connection" with a club comes when it is doing its very best to fulfil it's potential. Who the owners are at that time is largely irrelevant to most fans.

[Darth Crooks]

I understand the cognitive dissonance and refusal to take culpability. These are things operating at a geopolitcal and pan-continental scale that means Gary from Consett or Joe from Shields have little to no say other than give up their club somewhat. Not an option. I get that.

 

I think its a stretch to say sportswashing is a load of bollocks when its grounded in some ideology that our institutions should operate cleanly and with decency where possible and there are known, literally murderous issues involved. Simply saying its the way the world is or works can stuff plenty under the carpet and dismissing it is equal folly as buying wholesale into evil overlord narratives.

[TheHoob]

I think there's a (often wilful especially from other fans) misunderstanding of what sportswashing is, and what the aims are. Were Newcastle United bought as a vehicle for sportswashing? Aye. Are Newcastle United fans the 'target' of the sportswashing? Not really. 

 

They aren't spunking hundreds of millions of pounds on us so that a few lads from Byker stick up for them on social media (I know it does also happen) but we've been bought so they can say look at us, look how much money we have, look how much of a success we made of it, and in the hope that when people think of Saudi Arabia they don't think of chopping up Jamal Khashoggi but they think of sport, the money etc. 

[Wandy]

1 hour ago, WilliamPS said:

They’ve certainly managed to get you defending them.

 

What? ? How exactly have I defended them then? 

[Wandy]

1 hour ago, WilliamPS said:

Man Utd fans complain constantly about what they have became - some fans even made a whole new club!

 

First time I’ve ever heard anyone claim Liverpool fans don’t complain either. They have whole fan groups to pressure the owners about the soul of the club (groups like spirit of shankly)

 

(see also the protests about the super league)

 

Man Utd fans started up FC United because of the parasitic nature of the Glazer takeover, nothing to do with them being a global brand...which they became long before the Glazers arrived.

 

Scouse Liverpool fans do not complain about their global fanbase or LFC becoming a brand. They have largely appreciated FSG and only turned on them during the Super League debacle.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Wandy