The "delighted Ashley has gone, but uncomfortable with Saudi ownership" thread

[aa5773]

Well, not a news here... we always know that the prince doesn't care about the term "sportwashing". For him it's always about how the country can move from oil dependency economy into other type of economy like tourism and sport.

The term invented by the west and have no bearing at all to people in the kingdom

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by aa5773

[Superior Acuña]

Alreet that's that then.

[Kid Icarus]

'It has no bearing at all to the people in the kingdom'

 

Couldn't agree more, that's the point.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[TheBrownBottle]

3 hours ago, aa5773 said:

Well, not a news here... we always know that the prince doesn't care about the term "sportwashing". For him it's always about how the country can move from oil dependency economy into other type of economy like tourism and sport.

The term invented by the west and have no bearing at all to people in the kingdom

 

 

 

 

Of course it is.  Of course it is.

[The Prophet]

People will still delude themselves PIF isn't a key tool in the KSA economy.

[Whitley mag]

6 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

People will still delude themselves PIF isn't a key tool in the KSA economy.

It’s the sovereign wealth fund for the country of course it’s a key tool, not sure where anyone is deluding themselves on that.

 

 

[Dr.Spaceman]

29 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

People will still delude themselves PIF isn't a key tool in the KSA economy.

 

Who's doing that? Of course it's a key tool in their economy, they literally tell you that themselves on their website 

[Jackie Broon]

54 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

People will still delude themselves PIF isn't a key tool in the KSA economy.

 

I assume you mean in terms of ‘separation’. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the separation issue.

 

The issue wasn’t ‘separation’, the issue was ‘control’; whether the Saudi state could control the club (not specifically MBS; the state itself). From the details released in the High Court case the club’s argument against that was on the basis of legal separation of PIF from the state, but that was not accepted by the PL. The PL’s position was that, irrespective of any legal separation, the state could control the club and so the state itself should undergo the owners and directors test.

 

None of us know what was in the ‘legally binding assurances’ that finally convinced the PL to allow the takeover, but it seems very likely that it was an assurance that, even though the state could control the club, the state would not be involved in the club’s decision making. Again, probably not MBS specifically as he clearly would be involved in his role as the PIF chairman.

 

All of these 'look, this proves PIF isn't really separate from the Saudi state' comments are probably meaningless because that's probably not the basis on which the takeover was allowed.

[TheBrownBottle]

17 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

I assume you mean in terms of ‘separation’. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the separation issue.

 

The issue wasn’t ‘separation’, the issue was ‘control’; whether the Saudi state could control the club (not specifically MBS; the state itself). From the details released in the High Court case the club’s argument against that was on the basis of legal separation of PIF from the state, but that was not accepted by the PL. The PL’s position was that, irrespective of any legal separation, the state could control the club and so the state itself should undergo the owners and directors test.

 

None of us know what was in the ‘legally binding assurances’ that finally convinced the PL to allow the takeover, but it seems very likely that it was an assurance that, even though the state could control the club, the state would not be involved in the club’s decision making. Again, probably not MBS specifically as he clearly would be involved in his role as the PIF chairman.

 

All of these 'look, this proves PIF isn't really separate from the Saudi state' comments are probably meaningless because that's probably not the basis on which the takeover was allowed.

Let’s be honest, it was piracy of PL games.  The PL doesn’t give a solitary shite about who runs the club, nor about who could step in.  KSA was pirating PL IP, they wouldn’t be allowed to join until they stopped.  The sale of the club went through days after the piracy issue was resolved.   The ‘legally binding’ stuff is a load of hogwash. 

[Jackie Broon]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Let’s be honest, it was piracy of PL games.  The PL doesn’t give a solitary shite about who runs the club, nor about who could step in.  KSA was pirating PL IP, they wouldn’t be allowed to join until they stopped.  The sale of the club went through days after the piracy issue was resolved.   The ‘legally binding’ stuff is a load of hogwash. 

 

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that was the driving force behind the PL's interpretation of their rules to block the takeover and then what they accepted to unblock it when the piracy issue was resolved.

 

But piracy was never officially a reason (although it might have become an official reason if the state had undergone the O&D test). The official reason was always about whether the Saudi state could control the club, it seems likely that the PL accepted assurances that the state would not be involved in decisions at the club. Not that the state and PIF are separate, which is what a lot of people think was accepted.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Jackie Broon

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Jackie Broon said:

 

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that was the driving force behind the PL's interpretation of their rules to block the takeover and then what they accepted to unblock it when the piracy issue was resolved.

 

But piracy was never officially a reason (although it might have become an official reason if the state has undergone the O&D test). The official reason was always about whether the Saudi state could control the club, it seems likely that the PL accepted assurances that the state would not be involved in decisions at the club, even though it could. Not that the state and PIF are separate, which is what a lot of people think was accepted.

Yeah, you’re right of course.  That’s why the press / Mackems keep getting excited whenever a ‘PIF part of KSA state’ story comes up - they don’t understand that the ‘assurances’ were about control, not that ‘separation’ exists.  And of course there’s nothing in the current O&D test which stops a state owning a club, neither - which plenty also seem confused about. 

[Jackie Broon]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yeah, you’re right of course.  That’s why the press / Mackems keep getting excited whenever a ‘PIF part of KSA state’ story comes up - they don’t understand that the ‘assurances’ were about control, not that ‘separation’ exists.  And of course there’s nothing in the current O&D test which stops a state owning a club, neither - which plenty also seem confused about. 

 

And the PL's rules are so broadly drafted in relation to control that, taken to the letter, any state could be interpreted to have control over a club in the ownership of a individual or company based in their country. Ultimately, they are the PL's own rules and they can interpret them how they like, and there is little to no ability for that to be challenged by anyone other than the club that is directly affected.

 

 

[Chapo]

I’d never preach to anyone about this but personally the whole ownership situation has really taken the shine of football for me. I only realised it this season when Liverpool equalised, I didn’t really care whereas previously that would’ve put me in the shit for days. The other night watching the team line up in the Champions League just didn’t do anything for me at all which kills me. 

I’ll still watch out games and hope we win but it’s just not that important to me anymore. Happy for those that can enjoy it fully, I’m jealous. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Chapo

[Yorkie]

42 minutes ago, Chapo said:

I’d never preach to anyone about this but personally the whole ownership situation has really taken the shine of football for me. I only realised it this season when Liverpool equalised, I didn’t really care whereas previously that would’ve put me in the shit for days. The other night watching the team line up in the Champions League just didn’t do anything for me at all which kills me. 

I’ll still watch out games and hope we win but it’s just not that important to me anymore. Happy for those that can enjoy it fully, I’m jealous. 

 

I can really sympathise with this and have had a couple of spells where I've felt a particular lack of 'the feeling.' If you're searching to reclaim it, my advice is to try and not overthink stuff, and only look at the football itself. There's so much about the game at the top level these days which makes it hateful - the finances, the governance, the mainstream media, social media, content culture - but ultimately those things are adjacent to the sport itself. If you can train yourself to isolate it then it might help. There's no expectation of you to be conscious of the circus around it, you deserve to just follow your team. 

 

But also don't overthink how you feel. I had the same thing at one point last season; hating that I wasn't feeling a certain way - but then I just accepted it and got my head around the fact that I'm older than I was and I'll probably never fully get the childlike emotion again. After I accepted that, I wasn't putting pressure on myself to feel a certain way, and hey presto, suddenly I was biting my nails and on the ceiling when we scored again. 

 

Hope that doesn't come across preachy, just sharing my experiences really!

[Orphanage]

To me it feels way less exciting than the John Hall / Keegan revolution . Over the past 30 years the game has drifted further and further from its roots and whilst i understood the joy of the fans when Ashley went the idea that we had somehow " Got our club back " was nothing less than delusional 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Orphanage
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[Wallsendmag]

4 hours ago, Chapo said:

I’d never preach to anyone about this but personally the whole ownership situation has really taken the shine of football for me. I only realised it this season when Liverpool equalised, I didn’t really care whereas previously that would’ve put me in the shit for days. The other night watching the team line up in the Champions League just didn’t do anything for me at all which kills me. 

I’ll still watch out games and hope we win but it’s just not that important to me anymore. Happy for those that can enjoy it fully, I’m jealous. 

 

 

 

 

I'll be honest I can't remember the last time I was so gutted after a game than I was after that Liverpool game the other week! 

[The Bonk]

24 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

I'll be honest I can't remember the last time I was so gutted after a game than I was after that Liverpool game the other week! 

 

Same. I ghosted the forum, YouTube football content, you name it, I was fucking gutted, man. After last season's losses, the manner in which we lost against them, Klopp grinding his fucking teeth, I wanted to beat them more than anything. We were well on our way too!  

[midds]

31 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

I'll be honest I can't remember the last time I was so gutted after a game than I was after that Liverpool game the other week! 

I kicked the setee about 3 feet across the front room when he got the winner. Still stinging now - the foot and the result

[Whitley mag]

38 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

I'll be honest I can't remember the last time I was so gutted after a game than I was after that Liverpool game the other week! 

Most gutted i’ve been in a long time, felt like a real kick in the nuts and ruined the rest of the bank holiday.

[Pata]

1 hour ago, Orphanage said:

To me it feels way less exciting than the John Hall / Keegan revolution . Over the past 30 years the game has drifted further and further from its roots and whilst i understood the joy of the fans when Ashley went the idea that we had somehow " Got our club back " was nothing less than delusional 

 

 

 

 

We got back a club that tries to compete and not just exist to advertise the owner's sports store chain. I don't see that as delusional at all, football has changed irrevocably since the Hall/Keegan days.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Orphanage said:

To me it feels way less exciting than the John Hall / Keegan revolution . Over the past 30 years the game has drifted further and further from its roots and whilst i understood the joy of the fans when Ashley went the idea that we had somehow " Got our club back " was nothing less than delusional 

 

 

 

 

Definitely agree on the way the game has gone, the game felt a lot less cynical back in the 90's when Keegan took us on that magnificent journey under Hall. Not that Sir John was any less of a business shark, he certainly made a mint out of Newcastle, but at least he was our shark.

 

But I'm not going to lie, I really do enjoy watching our football again, I feel far more pride in this team under Howe than when we were led by Pardew and Bruce under Sports Direct.

[Heron]

I am in agreement that we don't have our club back, but it is back in the best form it could be (speaking specifically about the club).

 

Only when there is a revolution in football (once the inevitable implosion occurs) will fans truly get their clubs back.

[Holloway]

The nervous/ excited feeling in the pit of the stomach before every game has returned after years of hopelessness. It's enough for me

[Whitley mag]

I think the truth of the matter is anyone around old enough to compare the Keegan era and now is probably just a bit longer in the tooth and as you get older nothing seems as exciting.

 

These are heady times though and if anything I’m savouring it a bit more this time around, that’s when I can get a fucking ticket this season.

 

 

[Tiresias]

I was really gutted by liverpool for teh record but i do have a little fear creeping in. I don;t like the ownership, well on record, have been trying to just enjoy but a little bit of me does really worry that the most fun we will ever have was last season, bit of an underdog feel still, likeable players, lots of goals punching above our weight. I kinda dread us becoming a super slick mega club and all teh players being mainly interested in their instagram followers and own 'brand' and then us all raging about losing the odd game and finishing second. I still just want to enjoy not having to worry about relegation and giving games a good go, i don;t want to be that furious fan of a top 4 club that is really angry that they only reached 1 final or something...and that;s before the concerns about an ownership that wants to execute me if i lived in their country, i do worry that last season was maybe the best it will be and by the time we win the league i will be numb to it...