mighty__mag Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 39 minutes ago, Mattoon said: I agree with the sentiment, it's not acceptable some of the practices that happen in SA. My issue is with the political grandstanding of your average fan, full blown virtue signalling borne of jealousy. Most of them don't care what happens outside their own front door, it's the hypocrisy that irks me, not the legitimate concerns of sportswashing. Most of this will have vanished by next season, those that are still vocal should be listened to at that point. Right now, its just noise and needs to be ignored, to try and enter into discourse just makes our fans look complicit. Feel exactly the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWN Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 As I’ve said , next year , all forgotten. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 41 minutes ago, Mattoon said: Unfortunately it's siege mentality at this point, as fans we've had 18 months of fighting alone against what we perceived to be an injustice from the PL. This fight has continued after the takeover in an "us against the world" scenario, which makes your average fan want to defend their CLUB. Therein lies the issue as the club and the issues at hand aren't mutually exclusive but feel like the same thing, people feel targeted and are defending that which they would not normally. Whataboutism is an easy way for people to justify their defence of their club as an entity. Nobody can shake you of your siege mentality but you. It's not exactly an excuse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 14 minutes ago, Klaus said: This is the key. The reality is that most fans would jump at the opportunity to become the richest club in the world. In an ideal world, all clubs would have fan ownership (which will never happen), or we have a Geordie owner worth 320BN, but that person doesn't exist. Forget them even jumping on the opportunity. They wake up one day and their current owner has just sold the club to the Saudis. They had no say, they cannot stop it, and now they are a Saudi owned club. What do they do then? Are they insinuating that they stop supporting the club they have always supported because of the new ownership? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Couldn’t care less what other fans think. Nice flag lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 The patter will be unbearable if we get relegated, luckily its really easy to tune out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 12 minutes ago, Happinesstan said: Nobody can shake you of your siege mentality but you. It's not exactly an excuse. Never said it was, I'm just understanding where it's coming from, for the rights or the wrongs of it, I don't think it's coming from a bad place in the majority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 I’d echo the the sentiments of others who have rightly, as I see it, pointed out that modern elite football is brutal capitalism in it’s purest form. I don’t tend to like brutal capitalism, but I do like football and I do like NUFC. We’ve won the lottery, nice one. We were due a bit of luck. I’ll not be guilted into not watching NUFC by anyone. I made my decision to not follow the club under Ashley (latter years) and I’ll make my own to follow them again now. As others have said, I’d encourage NUFC fans not to engage in this with other fans. It’s absolutely pointless looking for hypocrisy anywhere never mind in football, everyone is guilty of hypocrisy. Football support is tribal, emotional, raw, passionate (unless you objectively choose an already successful team to follow) and it’s full of hypocrisy. You don’t win anything for being the most morally virtuous club, there are no points available for moral victories. Either choose to follow this NUFC, and own it, or don’t. Don’t try to whatabout other fans arguments because if they’re coming from a human rights angle, they’re correct and you’re on a hiding to nothing. And if they’re coming from any other angle it’s jealously. Just smile, wink, and count your money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said: I’d echo the the sentiments of others who have rightly, as I see it, pointed out that modern elite football is brutal capitalism in it’s purest form. I don’t tend to like brutal capitalism, but I do like football and I do like NUFC. We’ve won the lottery, nice one. We were due a bit of luck. I’ll not be guilted into not watching NUFC by anyone. I made my decision to not follow the club under Ashley (latter years) and I’ll make my own to follow them again now. As others have said, I’d encourage NUFC fans not to engage in this with other fans. It’s absolutely pointless looking for hypocrisy anywhere never mind in football, everyone is guilty of hypocrisy. Football support is tribal, emotional, raw, passionate (unless you objectively choose an already successful team to follow) and it’s full of hypocrisy. You don’t win anything for being the most morally virtuous club, there are no points available for moral victories. Either choose to follow this NUFC, and own it, or don’t. Don’t try to whatabout other fans arguments because if they’re coming from a human rights angle, they’re correct and you’re on a hiding to nothing. And if they’re coming from any other angle it’s jealously. Just smile, wink, and count your money. Beautifully stated. I just enjoy watching football and following this club. The last owner was a nightmare and has now sold to people from a controversial regime, and has made off with £300 million and has received no criticism for this. And the supporters that have no say or power in any of this now get grief. Yikes. I'll keep it to the football and continue to enjoy that. You're absolutely right that there is no point whatsoever going back and forth with those that want to protest, hold up flags, complain on social media etc. Give them the space to do all that if that's what they want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) FWIW, the argument that doesn’t make sense is “I don’t have a choice, I’m a Newcastle fan”. The fact is many people were prepared to walk away because of the previous owner, and we never said that was in any way wrong. So anyone who stays or turns their back because of this ownership is also making a decision. Think that’s an important distinction. Edited October 24, 2021 by AyeDubbleYoo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 14 minutes ago, Mattoon said: Never said it was, I'm just understanding where it's coming from, for the rights or the wrongs of it, I don't think it's coming from a bad place in the majority. Maybe it's one of the reasons Saudi Arabia chose us for their sportswashing programme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 13 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said: I’d echo the the sentiments of others who have rightly, as I see it, pointed out that modern elite football is brutal capitalism in it’s purest form. I don’t tend to like brutal capitalism, but I do like football and I do like NUFC. We’ve won the lottery, nice one. We were due a bit of luck. I’ll not be guilted into not watching NUFC by anyone. I made my decision to not follow the club under Ashley (latter years) and I’ll make my own to follow them again now. As others have said, I’d encourage NUFC fans not to engage in this with other fans. It’s absolutely pointless looking for hypocrisy anywhere never mind in football, everyone is guilty of hypocrisy. Football support is tribal, emotional, raw, passionate (unless you objectively choose an already successful team to follow) and it’s full of hypocrisy. You don’t win anything for being the most morally virtuous club, there are no points available for moral victories. Either choose to follow this NUFC, and own it, or don’t. Don’t try to whatabout other fans arguments because if they’re coming from a human rights angle, they’re correct and you’re on a hiding to nothing. And if they’re coming from any other angle it’s jealously. Just smile, wink, and count your money. The fucking victim complex on this. Nobody is guilting you into anything by continuing to highlight human rights abuse at a time when their is a very expensive campaign to sweep it under the rug. But hey, we've already swept the PL corruption under the rug, so what's it matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: FWIW, the argument that doesn’t make sense is “I don’t have a choice, I’m a Newcastle fan”. The fact is many people were prepared to walk away because of the previous owner, and we never said that was in any way wrong. So anyone who stays or turns their back because of this ownership is also making a decision. Think that’s an important distinction. Well, they didn't have a choice as far as who took over the club in either instance. But yes, the choice of whether to continue to support the club is always there, and will be based on various reasons for different individuals, and that is fair enough really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 At first, I felt strongly about this because I do feel there's a lot of hypocrisy from many (not all) journalists and, frankly, they're patronising as fuck. It seemed the PL were getting off very lightly with the coverage. Pretty chill about it now though. I actually think the Squires cartoon was the peak of it for me, I've not felt bothered by much since. Shrugged the flag off yesterday without much thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, GWN said: As I’ve said , next year , all forgotten. Aye, but everyone is obsessed with current affairs, obsessed. It gives them something to pretend to be interested in, until the next thing comes along. I get easily rattled by our virtue signaling fans, saying one thing and doing the other, for example "yes it's morally wrong that the saudis own us, I'm all for human rights me" Then the next breath celebrating the signing of Jude Bellingham in 12 months. I think you need to establish that you're either in or you're not, your political principles,or your acceptance that money rules our game. I'd be interested to know if one of our members or fans has ended their support of Nufc due to this takeover, they are the ones that get my total respect, because they are the ones who have integrity and stand by what they believe to be right above the other. The rest of us are hypocrites, it doesn't matter how much of a smart arse you wish to be defending it. This is football now, there's no going back. It will be another premier league clubs problem soon enough, foreign money will buy most of our sports eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, KaKa said: Well, they didn't have a choice as far as who took over the club in either instance. On the contrary fans absolutely pushed and campaigned relentlessly for this takeover to happen, so they certainly did have a choice. Staveley herself said it never would have happened without that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, mighty__mag said: I get easily rattled by our virtue signaling fans, saying one thing and doing the other, for example "yes it's morally wrong that the saudis own us, I'm all for human rights me" Then the next breath celebrating the signing of Jude Bellingham in 12 months. You get easily rattled by something that hasn't happened? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, mighty__mag said: Aye, but everyone is obsessed with current affairs, obsessed. It gives them something to pretend to be interested in, until the next thing comes along. I get easily rattled by our virtue signaling fans, saying one thing and doing the other, for example "yes it's morally wrong that the saudis own us, I'm all for human rights me" Then the next breath celebrating the signing of Jude Bellingham in 12 months. I think you need to establish that you're either in or you're not, your political principles,or your acceptance that money rules our game. I'd be interested to know if one of our members or fans has ended their support of Nufc due to this takeover, they are the ones that get my total respect, because they are the ones who have integrity and stand by what they believe to be right above the other. The rest of us are hypocrites, it doesn't matter how much of a smart arse you wish to be defending it. This is football now, there's no going back. It will be another premier league clubs problem soon enough, foreign money will buy most of our sports eventually. More fucking victim complex. "Ooh I'm a hypocrite" Cry me a fucking river. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Smal said: You get easily rattled by something that hasn't happened? We're talking about Jude Bellingham hypothetically? It's an example.👍🏻 If your missing points DM me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 13 minutes ago, Happinesstan said: Maybe it's one of the reasons Saudi Arabia chose us for their sportswashing programme. I'd say it almost definitely is, some of the most passionate supporters in the league, a city that lives and breathes football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 14 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: FWIW, the argument that doesn’t make sense is “I don’t have a choice, I’m a Newcastle fan”. The fact is many people were prepared to walk away because of the previous owner, and we never said that was in any way wrong. So anyone who stays or turns their back because of this ownership is also making a decision. Think that’s an important distinction. Not sure I’d entirely agree with that. Some people feel football support on a level that I don’t, for some people it’s a compulsion. Some people maybe don’t have much else to do, follow, be interested in? Ultimately yes they do have a choice, but it’s not as simple as buying an ethical brand of soap powder over another one, it’s much more complicated than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Happinesstan said: The fucking victim complex on this. Nobody is guilting you into anything by continuing to highlight human rights abuse at a time when their is a very expensive campaign to sweep it under the rug. But hey, we've already swept the PL corruption under the rug, so what's it matter. Other clubs fans are definitely having digs at supporters over the takeover, so he's not wrong in that. That is completely separate from the instances where other fans are highlighting human rights issues, which they are absolutely free to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 minute ago, mighty__mag said: We're talking about Jude Bellingham hypothetically? It's an example.👍🏻 If your missing points DM me. But it's not an example because it (or any other signings!) didn't happen!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 Just now, Mattoon said: I'd say it almost definitely is, some of the most passionate supporters in the league, a city that lives and breathes football. I was more referring to the fact that we'll overlook anything to get rid of Ashley. It's not a criticism of the fans btw. It just demonstrates how shrewd they are. They most likely expected opposition fans to protest. And have utilised it to the benefit of their campaign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mighty__mag Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Smal said: But it's not an example because it (or any other signings!) didn't happen!! Hypothetically speaking it could, or it might be some other expensive club, or world record fee. You know the point I'm gearing toward. Or would you like me to edit the post, and change it to, our first expensive signing? Edited October 24, 2021 by mighty__mag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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