elbee909 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I'm waiting with bingo card at the ready for mention of RAWK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Ahmed Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Theregulars said: I disagree; some people on here have taken on a quasi-religious fervour about Howe, the board and the squad whereby any criticism makes you some kind of ungrateful heathen. We’ve been playing mediocre for about 6 weeks, and the performances are - by and large - getting worse. This boring “appreciate what you’ve got” attitude (a broader problem in Britain, I might add) will hold us back in my view. That’s the approach we took to the transfer window and we look worse for it. We’re so lacklustre at the minute and if we don’t shape up we’ll get comfortably put to the sword by a good side in the cup final. Howe has 2 weeks to figure something out - we shouldn’t be in this position, but we’ve landed ourselves in this position by taking a commercial approach to football in the transfer window. Massively disagree that we've been playing mediocre for 6 weeks. West Ham overall was poor, though still had 2 big chances in the 2nd half to win it. And yesterday against Bournemouth was shocking but prior to that the performances were mostly good where we created enough chances to win games. I also disagree that the approach to the transfer window was appreciate what we've got, think it was more a case of we've got a plan for the summer and we don't want to risk that by making moves now which have no guarantee of paying off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Yeah, think it's clear they are preparing to make some key moves next summer, and were not looking to compromise them in any way shape or form in January. Champions League possibilities or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingArthur Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I think we have started to play "badly" during last few weeks because opponents have started to sit back and have given us the possession. Bournemouth really didn't press and before their goal our passing was very slow and predictable. After the goal we upped the tempo a lot. First half of the season we pressed high up on the pitch and got a lot of breaks high up. Now teams like Bournemouth, Palace and West Ham are quite quickly launching it behing Burn and Trippier. With Bruno we can open up spaces more and push the opposition deeper, without him we lose the ball too much in too dangerous areas. Especially Willock, ASM and Burn. Our squad just lacks quality in key areas. We really need a ball playing midfielder in place of Longstaff or Joelinton. Both have great engines and are great at winning the ball back, but neither are very good at opening up defences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Theregulars said: How does it? The performance was poor, the performances in general are trending downwards and the transfer window was not particularly impressive. It’s a relatively bad patch performance and results wise (I don’t think draws are great, especially when it’s the only result you get), and we had a poor transfer window (which I think is going to cost us the very significant opportunity of CL football when multiple usual challengers are having a bad season). The board, manager and squad are being criticised, and rightly so. There’s absolutely bot all highly strung about saying so. I’d say, in fact, that the reactions to this viewpoint are highly strung; it’s almost like “dissent” isn’t allowed. Only 4 clubs spent more than us in January, including the one we drew against yesterday. The transfer window may not have been impressive, but the comments about seeming entitled is when you (or others - I haven't paid attention to whom, just seen a lot of those type of comments) start blaming the performance yesterday on the lack of investment in the January window. If you think our current midfielders looked leggy, why the fuuuuuck would you want Shelvey as an alternative in the middle anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Dear me, reading this thread ? It's either 1) we're going through a spell where the opponents sit back and we haven't, yet, got the nous to overcome that. 2) Shelvey's suddenly become world class 1, for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 We need to have more options to break down teams when they shut up shop. It's only a year in to the project that Eddie Howe signed up to and we're about 5 places beyond where we hoped we'd be. We're evidently trying to play by FFP, we've only had 3 windows to unpick and rebuild and we've still only lost one game all season. No one is above criticism but fuck me...the effort is there and has been applied by almost all the playing squad. We don't demand a team that wins... Or do we? 'kin hell... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said: Dear me, reading this thread ? It's either 1) we're going through a spell where the opponents sit back and we haven't, yet, got the nous to overcome that. 2) Shelvey's suddenly become world class 1, for me Not one person is saying Shelvey is world class, but it’s pretty straightforward that we took a huge risk in selling him without a replacement considering the need for a CM before he left. It’s a risk that has already back fired in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 17 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: Not one person is saying Shelvey is world class, but it’s pretty straightforward that we took a huge risk in selling him without a replacement considering the need for a CM before he left. It’s a risk that has already back fired in my opinion. Would you rather have Anthony Gordon or Shelvey and Wood at this stage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 16 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: Not one person is saying Shelvey is world class, but it’s pretty straightforward that we took a huge risk in selling him without a replacement considering the need for a CM before he left. It’s a risk that has already back fired in my opinion. We've drawn 5 of the last 6. Shelvey's been injured so wouldn't have saved us anyway. Plus he's not good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, Heron said: Would you rather have Anthony Gordon or Shelvey and Wood at this stage? Why is Shelvey included in that ? Signing Gordon has nothing to do with us selling Shelvey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I think we miss Bruno. A lot of our play goes through him. It felt like an unfamiliar line-up yesterday and we weren't at our fluent best. But Bournemouth played well on the break, and we shouldn't assume that just because of their league position they were there for the taking. I can't see that Shelvey or Wood would have made a lot of difference. Both players wanted to go, and Eddie would have had to consider whether it was wise to insist on them staying. Apart from any effect on their performance, it's valuable for the club to get a reputation for treating players well. This squad has over-achieved massively in reaching 4th place. If we maintain it, that should be a bonus rather than an expectation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Groundhog63 said: We've drawn 5 of the last 6. Shelvey's been injured so wouldn't have saved us anyway. Plus he's not good enough. I’m not talking about the last few games, but he would have played a role in the rest of the season and given us an option to rest the 4 who have pretty much played every single minute so far this season. I’m by no means a massive Shelvey fan, but our squad is currently weaker without him, that is undeniable imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: Why is Shelvey included in that ? Signing Gordon has nothing to do with us selling Shelvey. How isn't he? Squad places need to be made available and we need to abide by FFP. We've removed probably one of the highest earners for least quality players and have also cashed in on someone who wasn't good enough but did us an immediate job to save us from relegation. I think people are re-imagining Shelvey personally. Good servant for the club across the years but wasn't fit half the time, lacked athleticism and sometimes simply had a lazy attitude. Why would Wood be included and not Shelvey, to your point? We've brought in a more creative option to unlock teams, someone whom we can rely upon for our high press and stay fit. We've had a suspension for Bruno (shit happens) and players are running tired at present but I also believe Howe isn't willing to jeopardise our cup match for a win away at Bournemouth. He's protecting players in what will be huge for them, as well as us. We could go all Chelsea and buy every fucker but in all honesty, I don't see how that'd work. It won't work for Chelsea (this season, and perhaps even next) either. Slow and steady wins the race. Anthony Gordon coming in has improved our first team propositions and ultimately our squad, and is transformative in that we're clearly confident in our ability to control games and hold teams and now are progressing into attacking and going after 3 points. It'll all happen in time, I just feel people aren't giving it that. Edited February 12, 2023 by Heron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heron Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 19 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said: I’m not talking about the last few games, but he would have played a role in the rest of the season and given us an option to rest the 4 who have pretty much played every single minute so far this season. I’m by no means a massive Shelvey fan, but our squad is currently weaker without him, that is undeniable imo. I don't believe it is. It gives a different option/more depth in replacement for a different option/more depth in another, and now we're looking towards getting wins not avoiding defeats Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 10 minutes ago, Heron said: How isn't he? Squad places need to be made available and we need to abide by FFP. We've removed probably one of the highest earners for least quality players and have also cashed in on someone who wasn't good enough but did us an immediate job to save us from relegation. I think people are re-imagining Shelvey personally. Good servant for the club across the years but wasn't fit half the time, lacked athleticism and sometimes simply had a lazy attitude. Why would Wood be included and not Shelvey, to your point? We've brought in a more creative option to unlock teams, someone whom we can rely upon for our high press and stay fit. We've had a suspension for Bruno (shit happens) and players are running tired at present but I also believe Howe isn't willing to jeopardise our cup match for a win away at Bournemouth. He's protecting players in what will be huge for them, as well as us. We could go all Chelsea and buy every fucker but in all honesty, I don't see how that'd work. It won't work for Chelsea (this season, and perhaps even next) either. Slow and steady wins the race. Anthony Gordon coming in has improved our first team propositions and ultimately our squad, and is transformative in that we're clearly confident in our ability to control games and hold teams and now are progressing into attacking and going after 3 points. It'll all happen in time, I just feel people aren't giving it that. We didn’t need to sell Shelvey to sign Gordon, why would we ? We signed Gordon and Shelvey was going to stay (Howe had said this a couple of times). Again im not reimagining Shelvey, I was never his biggest fan, but our squad is weaker with him gone and not replaced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 The only way FFP is impacted is if we buy poorly, which is down to bad scouting. I don't think Howe can take any blame really, what he's done with the squad is absolutely insane and he's obviously good at recognising players who he can work with, but he needs a lot more help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, timeEd32 said: I’ve still yet to see an answer to the question of who could we have signed that could have guaranteed a top 4 position? And I assume this is ignored because the answer is no one. . An extra midfielder gives us options in the run in and possibly the cup. You can't tell me there's no one out there better than an unfit Jonjo Shelvey? Edited February 12, 2023 by joeyt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geogaddi Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 People criticising Shelvey being sold , have a look back on the thread when it was announced he was leaving , the vast majority were over the moon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 7 minutes ago, Geogaddi said: People criticising Shelvey being sold , have a look back on the thread when it was announced he was leaving , the vast majority were over the moon. I think most people who were happy also assumed we must be signing a replacement because it would be suicidal to go into the second half of the season with 4 midfielders to fill 3 positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greydos Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Conjo said: Only 4 clubs spent more than us in January, including the one we drew against yesterday. The transfer window may not have been impressive, but the comments about seeming entitled is when you (or others - I haven't paid attention to whom, just seen a lot of those type of comments) start blaming the performance yesterday on the lack of investment in the January window. If you think our current midfielders looked leggy, why the fuuuuuck would you want Shelvey as an alternative in the middle anyway? I think this Shelvey talk is missing the point a little. No-one’s saying he’s a world-beater, but: 1) if Shelvey gets minutes, it means Longstaff/Joe/Jo are fresher and so can perform better when they’re on the pitch, 2) teams sitting back against us would play to Shelvey’s strengths, as he’d get more time on the ball to ping into midfield and so Joelinton/Longstaff could concentrate more on getting forward and not leaving Isak & Maxi isolated, 3) yesterday Shelvey put a ball in for Forest on a six-pence that should’ve resulted in a goal. It was similar to Longstaff’s cross for Wilson that Isak finished against Fulham. We could definitely use a deeper-pinged cross as a variety to our attacking crosses, as we most often tend to get to byeline and Trippier floats it or Almiron on his baby-right foot slides a slow pass across the ground and falls over. I’m certain we’d be stronger with Shelvey and Eddie seems to hold the same view Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Cronky said: I think we miss Bruno. You reckon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Keeping Shelvey improves our options in midfield massively like, I cannot see how anyone could believe it was a good idea to give him away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 22 minutes ago, Geogaddi said: People criticising Shelvey being sold , have a look back on the thread when it was announced he was leaving , the vast majority were over the moon. Because we thought he would be replaced Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 https://www.forestforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/jonjo-shelvey.51034/page-20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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