AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:19, Ronaldo said: I think a lot of it, for me anyway, is being conscious of the ownership. I want Howe to get years here and I want us to continue spending big but both in tandem aren’t possible when we’re clearly going backwards. Expand But are we clearly going backwards? Football doesn’t work like you finish 4th so next season you finish 3rd. So many factors are involved. This season is likely to lead to a lower league position, but IMO that’s fully understandable based on the bigger picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:18, gbandit said: Don’t really see how the argument is in the middle. We have a manager who dragged us out of the depths with some amazing football. He gets us CL football, he has us qualified without a freak refereeing error. He takes us to a cup final for the first time in over two decades. He gets us extremely close to qualifying for the semis of the same competition the following year, despite playing Man City, Man U and Chelsea. All while we experience an unprecedented injury crisis. People are criticising rotation and in-game subs. I think we’re all on board with that. If people are criticising much beyond that or questioning whether he’s the right man for the job then they need their heads checked Expand Fully agree with the 1st paragraph, but my personal main criticism is we've been largely poor away from home since we stuffed Everton at Goodison in April. Its now almost January and a few of those away games/performances were before this freakish injury list got as big as it did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:20, AyeDubbleYoo said: But are we clearly going backwards? Football doesn’t work like you finish 4th so next season you finish 3rd. So many factors are involved. This season is likely to lead to a lower league position, but IMO that’s fully understandable based on the bigger picture. Expand It really absurd to say after a few grueling months of a season. But this honestly feels almost like the same conversation from last January. It's going to pop up every time we have a rough patch. And it's often the same posters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:20, AyeDubbleYoo said: But are we clearly going backwards? Football doesn’t work like you finish 4th so next season you finish 3rd. So many factors are involved. This season is likely to lead to a lower league position, but IMO that’s fully understandable based on the bigger picture. Expand No I don’t think we are, currently, but it’s headed that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:23, HaydnNUFC said: Fully agree with the 1st paragraph, but my personal main criticism is we've been largely poor away from home since we stuffed Everton at Goodison in April. Its now almost January and a few of those away games/performances were before this freakish injury list got as big as it did. Expand No doubt we have been generally poor away from home for this whole season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiquidAK Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:20, AyeDubbleYoo said: But are we clearly going backwards? Football doesn’t work like you finish 4th so next season you finish 3rd. So many factors are involved. This season is likely to lead to a lower league position, but IMO that’s fully understandable based on the bigger picture. Expand Yup, we've hit a rough patch but the only way you could say we've genuinely gone backwards is if you look at this season devoid of all context Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:24, Ronaldo said: No I don’t think we are, currently, but it’s headed that way. Expand then why say it without a caveat? And we are headed toward going backwards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:20, AyeDubbleYoo said: But are we clearly going backwards? Football doesn’t work like you finish 4th so next season you finish 3rd. So many factors are involved. This season is likely to lead to a lower league position, but IMO that’s fully understandable based on the bigger picture. Expand I got the impression from the Netflix piece that the ownership appreciated this. We got to the CL ahead of schedule. We strengthened our squad but it's still clearly not at the same level as the top teams. Even without the injuries we don't really have the depth to properly challenge. Last season we had a week between games and were able to implement our press every game as well as prepare for each game. The tactics instilled in the team helped disguise the slight lack of technical quality in the squad. We just don't have that luxury this season. On the roadmap I imagine this was put down as a transitional season where maybe we'd be pushing for top 4. And squad wise it still is. Add the injury crisis on top and I think we're not in the worst spot we might be. Howe isn't above criticism and maybe there's a few things he could have done differently but I'd be surprised if anyone else would have done much better with this squad, schedule, and injury crisis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 17:52, The Prophet said: Considering he started from a much higher platform and is yet to achieve anything, I'd disagree. Granted both are very good coaches and Emery could do well this season. Expand They were seventeenth when he took over, hardly a much higher platform. Both managers have done equally well and stupid to compare them yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny Green Balls Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:29, Gawalls said: They were seventeenth when he took over, hardly a much higher platform. Both managers have done equally well and stupid to compare them yet. Expand didn't you just compare them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 I think the away form is largely linked to not playing with the same intensity and press that we do at home. This must be to try and save legs either for the latter half of the season or more likely because of injuries and squad fatigue. I don’t doubt that they’ll have a plan in place for trying to make us more defensively resolute away from home but we’ve not played with a consistent back four all season and our midfield lineup has been very inconsistent too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 (edited) On 23/12/2023 at 19:29, Gawalls said: They were seventeenth when he took over, hardly a much higher platform. Both managers have done equally well and stupid to compare them yet. Expand They were already a few years into their take over, with a superior squad and a decent academy. Edited December 23, 2023 by The Prophet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShearer Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 can we really afford to keep spending big if we not making CL 2 of next 3 times? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideopenMag Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 18:37, Hanshithispantz said: Losing to Sunderland away wouldn't be even remotely embarrassing. It would be shite and the craic will be lifting, but the odds of it happening aren't exactly long. The season is a write off at this point, atleast from where we hoped we would be at the start. Expand Eh? it would be the most embarrassing result in our recent history. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:18, gbandit said: Don’t really see how the argument is in the middle. We have a manager who dragged us out of the depths with some amazing football. He gets us CL football, he has us qualified without a freak refereeing error. He takes us to a cup final for the first time in over two decades. He gets us extremely close to qualifying for the semis of the same competition the following year, despite playing Man City, Man U and Chelsea. All while we experience an unprecedented injury crisis. People are criticising rotation and in-game subs. I think we’re all on board with that. If people are criticising much beyond that or questioning whether he’s the right man for the job then they need their heads checked Expand This is obviously the macro argument, which I broadly agree with, but it obfuscates important context, which gets you to the middle. Analysis can, and should, run deeper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:36, BShearer said: can we really afford to keep spending big if we not making CL 2 of next 3 times? Expand Depends on commercial revenue and player sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiston Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 (edited) On 23/12/2023 at 19:17, Gallowgate Toon said: Been let down by our attackers in recent away games as well. Not even a sniff of a half chance being converted. We're definitely not playing amazing going forward or owt but creating enough to at least do better than that pitiful output. Across the last few league away games, we've amassed about 5xg and missed 8 'big chances' while only scoring 1. Compounded by lack of available rotation and we're leaking goals we can't afford to concede. Expand Don't think it helps our attackers though with zero creativity behind them, complete lack of assists from our midfield. Only so many times the hoof the ball forward to the winger will work, especially when Gordon and almiron cannot chase them down consistently now. It's a whole team thing even with missed chances. Edited December 23, 2023 by Aiston Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:38, WideopenMag said: Eh? it would be the most embarrassing result in our recent history. Expand Losing to Cambridge at home is/would be worse but I agree losing to the mackems would be rancid beyond belief. Lose-lose situation for us, its why I never wanted to play them ever again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 Clearly going backwards and failed every competition? The squad was in great shape after the summer window we've just had an insane amount of bad luck with injuries (+our star signing being banned) and the most brutal draws in cups you could imagine, and still are one point of 6th at the halfway point. Hopefully Eddie gets us back on track and certain posters go back into hiding again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 How many of our squad would get into the "elite" (forums favourite word recently) teams? Botman. Injured all season. Bruno. Tonali? Suspended all season. Isak. Injured for half of it. That's about it? Trippier, Gordon, Livramento might be decent squad options (though Tripper is on the way out and the latter two more long term prospects) but I don't think anyone else really gets near. That's what he's had to work with despite the injuries and getting us into the CL. It's asking a lot from anyone. The obvious question is I think we'd mostly agree that Pep is at this point the better manager but how much better do we think he'd be doing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paullow Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:38, WideopenMag said: Eh? it would be the most embarrassing result in our recent history. Expand They are just 3/1 to win at William Hills, and we've lost to far worse teams than them in the past couple of years - Sheff Wed and Cambridge were both 3rd tier, the latter was at home and the strongest team we could put out. A top half Championship team winning at home to a PL team not in great form and a lot of injuries, whilst obviously shit from an emotional POV, it wouldn't even be that much of a shock. Sunderland are shorter odds than what Luton were today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:31, Vinny Green Balls said: didn't you just compare them? Expand Smart arse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphanage Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:15, Pata said: Who are the third strikers on Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Tottenham, Villa and Brighton? Expand Isaks injured half the time and Wilsons never had a full season yet ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 On 23/12/2023 at 19:38, Jagten said: This is obviously the macro argument, which I broadly agree with, but it obfuscates important context, which gets you to the middle. Analysis can, and should, run deeper. Expand Our if interest, what's that important context being obfuscated? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 Has zero plan B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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