Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

26 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

We don't know that those managers wouldn't come here, though. No one ever thought we could attract someone with Benitez's stock in 2016 under Ashley whilst 19th in the league, yet we did.

Do you think we can make a Bruce to Rafa jump in quality before the end of the season?

 

I don’t follow other leagues closely. Just Real.  So I only know if Xavi Alonso as an elite manager. Could we get him?  I would do that tomorrow.  But I don’t think it’s possible. 

[El Prontonise]

[The College Dropout]

You are both right I think. 
 

It took me some time to realise we could only ever be as good as Ashley wanted us to be. Didn’t matter the manager. We would never sustain a challenge.  
 

So now what the owners do is my number 1 issue. 

[Doctor Zaius]

11 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

 

fucking hell, are you well?

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

we were winning games and people STILL gave a fuck because the way he was running the club was dangerous and a fuck load of fans always knew it, your point would have some form of validity had Mike Ashley never ran the club but he did and it evidenced that the point you are making is a load of shite, no matter what way you try and walk it back. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We weren't winning games with any sort of consistency.  We never finished above fucking 10th in a decade aside from that one season under Pardew. Had we been regularly qualifying for Europe under him, there would have been less noise about his running of the club, because like I say, results matter. Im not fucking claiming grass isn't fuckin green here like. Christ alive.

 

 

 

Edited December 9 by Doctor Zaius

[HaydnNUFC]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Do you think we can make a Bruce to Rafa jump in quality before the end of the season?

 

I don’t follow other leagues closely. Just Real.  So I only know if Xavi Alonso as an elite manager. Could we get him?  I would do that tomorrow.  But I don’t think it’s possible. 

 

'Bruce to Rafa' is extreme, howeh. But there are good managers out there, and suggesting that any of those that have a decent chance of being better categorically won't come here is shortsighted imo. No one knows that, and we are still an attractive proposition especially with some of the players we have.

 

 

Edited December 9 by HaydnNUFC

[AyeDubbleYoo]

9 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

 

fucking hell, are you well?

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

we were winning games and people STILL gave a fuck because the way he was running the club was dangerous and a fuck load of fans always knew it, your point would have some form of validity had Mike Ashley never ran the club but he did and it evidenced that the point you are making is a load of shite, no matter what way you try and walk it back. 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually wanted us to lose. Winning just proved that Mike Ashley’s criminal approach was working. I wanted us to lose very week TBH, I didn’t even celebrate goals by the end. 

[JEToon]

3 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

We weren't winning games with any sort of consistency.  We never finished above fucking 10th in a decade aside from that one season under Pardew. Had we been regularly qualifying for Europe under him, there would have been less noise about his running of the club, because like I say, results matter. Im not fucking claiming grass isn't fuckin green here like. Christ alive.

 

 

 

 

 

So your point is, had Mike Ashley never existed, no one would have moaned about Mike Ashley, aye fantastic point that. 

[Doctor Zaius]

1 minute ago, JEToon said:

 

So your point is, had Mike Ashley never existed, no one would have moaned about Mike Ashley, aye fantastic point that. 

 

In a world where Mike Ashley's Newcastle had finished consistently in Europe (winning consistently) there would have been less of a fuck given about how he ran the club - rightly or wrongly. That's my point. Genuinely don't think it's that hard to understand.

 

[JEToon]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

In a world where Mike Ashley's Newcastle had finished consistently in Europe (winning consistently) there would have been less of a fuck given about how he ran the club - rightly or wrongly. That's my point. Genuinely don't think it's that hard to understand.

 

 

It's not that hard to understand, it's just bullshit really because it's a complete and utter rewrite of who he was, and he didn't achieve those things because of how he ran the club. "I know but if we did....." rinse and repeat, it's just a shite point in the context of him and how many fans were clued up on it and just how cancerous he actually was, people did know, people did care, and a fucking lot of them did to try and act like people would have just been brazen to it regardless of how we performed is nonsense 

 

It's also just a bit redundant and a bit boring now really to both post it and to those reading it 

 

 

Edited December 9 by JEToon

[Darth Crooks]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

I can't get my head around people not aligning with the message on that banner. It wasn't sanctimonious at all. Its purpose was to highlight that the club wasn't even trying to compete, all the while the fanbase was being continuously gaslit around supposedly unrealistic expectations. I can't believe anyone who's been on this forum long enough wouldn't get that. 

 

Obviously we all want a team that wins; the point was that, at the time - after years of deliberate regression - all we wanted (at the very fucking least) was for us to have a go. Deluded Geordies think they should be in the top 4! Er, just trying for something more than 17th and the 3rd round of the cup would be decent, like.

 

It was misquoted as team twice so many times - the nuance of team and club obviously too subtle for some.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Vedder said:

Not sure these are Howe's mistakes though, he can only use what he has play with. In 2022/23 he performed incredibly well getting Trippier to be so influential and Almiron scoring goals, but it was always goign to be a struggle to keep those levels so high. Lack of depth in the keeper position, slowness of our centre halves, Wilson AWOL etc. can't be laid just at Howe's feet. We're not able to spend because of PSR and there is a whole recruitment infrastructure at the club.

 

Given our resources, a par season is 7th or 8th, some fans just don't want to hear that. I appreciate we're on a bad run but we'd be crazy to let Howe go unless there's a real upgrade available, which I struggle to see at the moment.  

 

 

7th or 8th isn't going to have fans screaming for Howe's P45. The concern is more the way we are playing and shipping points to teams with less resources and who would normally be lower half or relegation fodder. Given that, I would be concerned we might find 7th/8th out of reach unless we turn things around pretty quickly.

[Doctor Zaius]

11 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

It's not that hard to understand, it's just bullshit really because it's a complete and utter rewrite of who he was, and he didn't achieve those things because of how he ran the club. "I know but if we did....." rinse and repeat, it's just a shite point in the context of him and how many fans were clued up on it and just how cancerous he actually was, people did know, people did care, and a fucking lot of them did to try and act like people would have just been brazen to it regardless of how we performed is nonsense 

 

 

 

 

At no point have I tried to rewrite how he was. 

 

He was killing the club and we were woeful on the pitch and the response from the fanbase was fractured at best. Had we been finishing 6th/7th every season, the opposition to him would have been minimal, particularly from match going fans, which was my original point. You're entitled to think in wrong all you want.

 

 

Edited December 9 by Doctor Zaius

[The College Dropout]

25 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

'Bruce to Rafa' is extreme, howeh. But there are good managers out there, and suggesting that any of those that have a decent chance of being better categorically won't come here is shortsighted imo. No one knows that, and we are still an attractive proposition especially with some of the players we have.

 

 

 

We are attractive to managers a level above Howe with all of our PSR issues?

 

I'm not even certain a manager like Emery is a definitive level above Howe and would come in and make a meaningful impact short, medium and long-term.

 

IMO bigger issues upstairs.

[JEToon]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

At no point have I tried to rewrite how he was. 

 

He was killing the club and we were woeful on the pitch and the response from the fanbase was fractured at best. Had we been finishing 6th/7th every season, the opposition to him would have been minimal, particularly from match going fans. 

 

[TRon]

33 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You are both right I think. 
 

It took me some time to realise we could only ever be as good as Ashley wanted us to be. Didn’t matter the manager. We would never sustain a challenge.  
 

So now what the owners do is my number 1 issue. 

 

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We are attractive to managers a level above Howe with all of our PSR issues?

 

I'm not even certain a manager like Emery is a definitive level above Howe and would come in and make a meaningful impact short, medium and long-term.

 

IMO bigger issues upstairs.

 

 

Maybe take it up in the PIF thread and see if we can figure a way forward there.

[HaydnNUFC]

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We are attractive to managers a level above Howe with all of our PSR issues?

 

 

To avoid plagiarising @ponsaelius again, I'll just quote him. Away from what's being served up on the pitch atm, I think even he's a wee bit of an obstacle to that as per;

 

On 27/08/2024 at 11:22, ponsaelius said:

We've really lacked creativity and ruthlessness in the transfer market for me over the last 12 months. We all know we're basically bunged up with PSR but you have to find ways around it to keep moving forward, and I think we've lacked the dynamism and bravery to do so and things have become very stagnant. I definitely think Howe for as good as he is as a coach is potentially an issue with us navigating the next stage due to his approach to recruitment and playing style. We are in an awkward position.

 

 

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I'm not even certain a manager like Emery is a definitive level above Howe and would come in and make a meaningful impact short, medium and long-term.

 

 

I mean, Emery has won numerous European trophies.  I don't think Howe has the nous tactically to win us something. 

 

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

IMO bigger issues upstairs.

 

 

Agree that there's issues upstairs, the club as a whole seems incredibly reactive rather than proactive.

 

 

Edited December 9 by HaydnNUFC

[The College Dropout]

Ok cool - could we hire a multiple European cup winning manager? And give him the tools to succeed?

 

Villa are currently 6th.  1 place better than Howe managed last season. 

[HaydnNUFC]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Ok cool - could we hire a multiple European cup winning manager? And give him the tools to succeed?

 

Villa are currently 6th.  1 place better than Howe managed last season. 

 

Maybe, but that depends on who Mitchell et al target. But I think we are capable of attracting a manager that could well be a better one. And money that was being waved about for Guehi I assume is there, plus I'd want any manager that succeeds Howe either in the near future or long term that's proactive & ruthless in squad management and open to selling players at opportune moments to try and avoid the PSR wrecking ball.

 

6th whilst playing CL football as well, whilst we are currently 12th without Europe or major injuries to contend with outside of Botman.

[et tu brute]

26 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

 

Maybe take it up in the PIF thread and see if we can figure a way forward there.

He's like a broken record, non stop with the same shite based on fuck all 

[ponsaelius]

For what it's worth irrespective of my comments quoted above I'm also not convinced a different manager would necessarily be demonstrably better with this squad as it is. 

 

I think if we do make a change it has to be made with a very clear vision about how we plan to navigate PSR/squad building, rather than because we want to just roll the dice on some other bloke in the hope it improves. 

 

I'm strongly of the opinion that there's lots of good coaches out there, but they're only as good as the structure they're in and how that is aligned. I think whoever replaces Howe will have equally as many foibles as he does merits - even if they're slightly different than Eddie's.

 

 

Edited December 9 by ponsaelius

[80]

42 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

 

Maybe take it up in the PIF thread and see if we can figure a way forward there.

I've lost track of whose arguing with who about what and why. 

 

But what the board are up to has big implications for what can, should or will be done on the manager front. You can't really have a sensible discussion about it without them being involved. Potentially we bang our heads against a wall for years if we don't properly factor it in. 

 

We might have very fine ideas about what Howe or his successor should be able to achieve, but there's a chance it's all for nothing.

[Terrymac1966]

I would like a manager who actually plays new signings instead of this stupid long wait Howe insists on. Also getting players with slight knocks straight back in not this cotton wool rubbish. Joe Harvey played the fuckers whatever and they all seemed to cope.

[TRon]

51 minutes ago, 80 said:

I've lost track of whose arguing with who about what and why. 

 

But what the board are up to has big implications for what can, should or will be done on the manager front. You can't really have a sensible discussion about it without them being involved. Potentially we bang our heads against a wall for years if we don't properly factor it in. 

 

We might have very fine ideas about what Howe or his successor should be able to achieve, but there's a chance it's all for nothing.

 

 

I'll let TCD take this up then since he's the one who has queries about what the board/owners plans are. All he's said is that thinks they are the bigger issue, he wasn't really specific on how this relates to the manager.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

 

I'll let TCD take this up then since he's the one who has queries about what the board/owners plans are. All he's said is that thinks they are the bigger issue, he wasn't really specific on how this relates to the manager.

I'm all over the PSR thread. @80 covered my points. Also this:

 

2 hours ago, ponsaelius said:

For what it's worth irrespective of my comments quoted above I'm also not convinced a different manager would necessarily be demonstrably better with this squad as it is. 

 

I think if we do make a change it has to be made with a very clear vision about how we plan to navigate PSR/squad building, rather than because we want to just roll the dice on some other bloke in the hope it improves. 

 

I'm strongly of the opinion that there's lots of good coaches out there, but they're only as good as the structure they're in and how that is aligned. I think whoever replaces Howe will have equally as many foibles as he does merits - even if they're slightly different than Eddie's.

 

 

 

Agree fully. I don't think Eddie vs a different coach is the difference between midtable mediocrity and a CL push. At least not at this moment.

 

Last season i felt we were broadly going in the right direction and a decision or two or some good luck away from a really good season. But from June we've lost all momentum as a club. PSR and our mismangement has come to light. I don't think a change of manager is going to really move the needle.

 

Could be wrong. We could've hired Maresca or Slot in the summer imo and maybe they would work magic. But also those clubs have top 3 wage bills so with City faltering - they should be in position to capitalise.

 

 

Edited December 9 by The College Dropout

[Kid Icarus]

1 hour ago, Terrymac1966 said:

I would like a manager who actually plays new signings instead of this stupid long wait Howe insists on. Also getting players with slight knocks straight back in not this cotton wool rubbish. Joe Harvey played the fuckers whatever and they all seemed to cope.

 

Correlation ≠ causation, but if this method has anything to do with Howe's only definitive flop signing being Jordan Ibe, then I'm all for it tbh.