Eddie Howe

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, healthyaddiction said:

Here are your flops:

Sesko

Dorgu

Ugarte

Mazraoui

Yoro

Zirkzee

Mount

Onana

Hojlund

Malacia

Eriksen

Martinez

Casemiro

Antony

Sancho

Varane

Ronaldo

 

  I was trying to be serious.

[healthyaddiction]

Probably harsh on Sesko.

 

Dorgu has been awful until recent weeks, and is now out long term right? Might be harsh.

 

Ugarte has been shite.

 

Mazraoui has been shite.

 

Yoro has been shite.

 

Zirkzee has been shite.

 

Mount has been injured almost his entire time at the club.

 

Onana was shite.

 

Hojlund wsa shite.

 

Malacia was always injured.

 

Eriksen, probably harsh, but really, was past it at Man Utd. Free transfer though I suppose.

 

Martinez was great his first season but has been injured non-stop since then until recently.

 

Casemiro, perhaps harsh, but for how much you paid him, has not been value.

 

Antony was shite.

 

Sansho was shite.

 

Varane was constantly injured.

 

Ronaldo just caused trouble and distabilised the club.

[Froggy]

Just now, TRC said:

When you look at our signings, the overall strategy is incredibly risky.  Not many sure things in there for a team with PSR limitations.

 

we don’t really do many shrewd signings outside of Burn and Trippier.

 

i know Bruno, Hall etc were excellent in hindsight but they were risky. Hall thought we would send back to Chelsea at one point.

 

It was risky I'll give you that, I think INEOS have been bang on with the majority of their signings.

 

We're peddled about here as if we make mistake after mistake, which just isn't true, although there have been some pretty expensive disasters with Sancho and Antony and we've paid for those when we were chasing multiple trophies and the best signings we could make were loan deals for Sabitzer and Weghorst.

 

But to suggest Newcastle have only made one mistake is just silly. You could argue that Woltemade, Wissa, Elanga and Ramsey have all flopped so far. I wouldn't personally say that, but if you think Sesko is a flop then Woltemade and Wissa definitely are.

 

And you can't claim players like Chris Wood weren't flops/mistakes because you managed to recoup OK money for them. 

[bobbydazzla]

13 minutes ago, Chicken Dancer said:

 

Yeah I agree. We're a very good cup team and can get ourselves for one off games, especially at home. The ties were favourable in that sense.

 

But in the league we are as close to West Ham than we are to Villa - it's a fact. We may have a Villa 24/45 end to the season and finish top 6 again as there's still plenty time. I somehow doubt it though, especially given we can't compete on all 4 fronts as you say.

 

West Ham also aren't playing CL games midweek and on a deep league cup run.

 

It's comparing apples with oranges if you just look at our league position in isolation and disregard the other games we have to play.

 

Yes, we're closer to West Ham than Villa in the league but the mitigating circumstances for that situation are obvious.

 

If you were plotting an ideal course of experience for Eddie and the squad, we would have had a few seasons in the Europa to get used to the demands of a European campaign but against easier opposition, then step up to CL with that valuable experience under our belts.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2 by bobbydazzla

[timeEd32]

Why does Luis Enrique keep getting mentioned? Right up there with Pep and Klopp in terms of the least likely options.

[Chicken Dancer]

Just now, bobbydazzla said:

 

West Ham also aren't playing CL games midweek and on a deep league cup run.

 

It's comparing apples with oranges if you just look at our league position in isolation and disregard the other games we have to play.

 

Yes, we're closer to West Ham than Villa in the league but the mitigating circumstance for that situation are obvious.

 

If you were plotting an ideal course of experience for Eddie and the squad, we would have had a few seasons in the Europa to get used to the demands of a European campaign but against easier opposition, then step up to CL with that valuable experience under our belts.

 

 

 

Maybe you're right. Maybe the fact Villa played conference league in 23/24 allowed them the experience to navigate a deep FA Cup run, getting to CL quarters and missing out on CL football on goal difference the following season. They finished level on points with us and played a hell of a lot more games, despite us winning the league cup.

 

They've shown now over a few seasons that they're much more capable than us at being able to not allow a European campaign to have too much of a negative impact on their league form. Hopefully we're able to replicate next season if we end up in one of the less two European competitions.

[TRC]

7 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

It was risky I'll give you that, I think INEOS have been bang on with the majority of their signings.

 

We're peddled about here as if we make mistake after mistake, which just isn't true, although there have been some pretty expensive disasters with Sancho and Antony and we've paid for those when we were chasing multiple trophies and the best signings we could make were loan deals for Sabitzer and Weghorst.

 

But to suggest Newcastle have only made one mistake is just silly. You could argue that Woltemade, Wissa, Elanga and Ramsey have all flopped so far. I wouldn't personally say that, but if you think Sesko is a flop then Woltemade and Wissa definitely are.

 

And you can't claim players like Chris Wood weren't flops/mistakes because you managed to recoup OK money for them. 

I agree with you, this biggest mistakes we have made is buying players we probably didn’t need too.

Signing Barnes and Gordon, signing Ramsey. Signing Wissa and Woltemade to play in our current style.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Jesus Christ are we still running this thing about not needing Barnes? Shoot me

 

 

Edited February 2 by AyeDubbleYoo

[KennyUtd]

53 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

 

Can you put transfer fee and wages next to every player please.

 

And also the sale price, if they're been sold on.

 

And also show us a list of the players in your squad in Oct 2021 and also the players in our squad in Oct 2021. Include what they were signed for and what they were earning in wages.

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck.

[KennyUtd]

Fuck sake. Where would we be without Harvey Barnes this season. 

[Kid Icarus]

13 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Jesus Christ are we still, running this thing about not needing Barnes? Shoot me

 

 

 

It's one of the forum's weirdest quirks like.  By this point you would at least think that the 'mistake' tag would have been transferred from Barnes to Gordon. 

[54]

I thought we where past the "Barnes was a mistake" thing given he's been hands down out best attacking player over the last year, but I guess its a bit like the "Howe signed nothing but duds at his time at Bournemouth" line, in that it keeps getting spouted despite it being proven as utter horseshit from the initial moment it got said. 

[Kid Icarus]

Love it when Froggy does his girl from Pulp's Common People bit.

[KingArthur]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

It was risky I'll give you that, I think INEOS have been bang on with the majority of their signings.

 

We're peddled about here as if we make mistake after mistake, which just isn't true, although there have been some pretty expensive disasters with Sancho and Antony and we've paid for those when we were chasing multiple trophies and the best signings we could make were loan deals for Sabitzer and Weghorst.

 

But to suggest Newcastle have only made one mistake is just silly. You could argue that Woltemade, Wissa, Elanga and Ramsey have all flopped so far. I wouldn't personally say that, but if you think Sesko is a flop then Woltemade and Wissa definitely are.

 

And you can't claim players like Chris Wood weren't flops/mistakes because you managed to recoup OK money for them. 

I dont think you can call these players who have half a season, or in Wissa’s case, knee injury behind them. That is why I dont call Sesko flop, who btw has less goals than Woltemade? 
 

In PSR world signings like Chris Wood or Minteh are not flops of course. 
 

how would that list look if we look between 5-10 years?

 

We all know PSR gives you totally different rules regarding transfers than us ir Villa. There is no debate there. 

[dcmk]

57 minutes ago, 54 said:

I thought we where past the "Barnes was a mistake" thing given he's been hands down out best attacking player over the last year, but I guess its a bit like the "Howe signed nothing but duds at his time at Bournemouth" line, in that it keeps getting spouted despite it being proven as utter horseshit from the initial moment it got said. 

The same poster who posted this.

 

 

[Froggy]

9 minutes ago, KingArthur said:

That is why I dont call Sesko flop, who btw has less goals than Woltemade? 

 

Less minutes too and had an injury layoff. Sesko is better than Woltemade IMO. 

[timeEd32]

(sorry, this started as a response to the Barnes narrative and then meandered through some of my frustrations with the anti-Eddie stuff)

 

If you are unhappy with where the first XI or squad is currently and/or you're unhappy with our lack of business for two years then it can be traced back to that window. It's not about any one specific player, but it is a fact that we overspent. The most generous explanation is the overspending was a calculated gamble backed by a belief there'd be an easy exit ramp come June. The gamble was European progression / the ability to compete in the PL and starting with the CL draw just about everything went against us. Our group, the injuries, Tonali, more injuries, the handball in Paris, and then more injuries. The presumed exit ramp was that Bruno's release clause would be triggered or to sell Joelinton (Ashworth's plan), but Ashworth leaving in the middle of that season meant that we no longer had a plan (that assumes we did have a plan; there's a more damning alternate history that would say we were just drunkenly maxing out the credit card all summer). That led to the Anderson/Minteh scramble, which was unfortunate.

 

The reason this entire debate seems preposterous to some is that we unarguably hit a home run in terms of the players we brought in. It's just that almost all of them took a year to have a significant impact (which should maybe be a lesson when making judgments about this past summer's business). The amount we spent that summer though is also why we then went three windows without adding anyone of significance, which I do think has caught up to us a bit this season.

 

Ultimately the players we bought that summer and the ones we didn't sell are a big reason we won a trophy less than 12 months ago. A trophy many thought they'd never see, so I find it really difficult to care too much about Yankuba Minteh and what might have been. Those players are also the reason we're currently in the Champions League, progressing in the CL, and on course to absolutely shatter our revenue record. 

 

We seem to have (over)reacted to what happened in 2023/24 by telling Staveley to get lost and hiring Mitchell behind the manager's back. You can then draw a solid line connecting those decisions to the Isak saga (it is very possible Isak would have been a prick regardless, but we did not help ourselves). A lesser manager may have crumbled and NUFC would be run by Paul Mitchell right now. Instead, Eddie went and won a trophy and finished 5th which gave him all of the power (probably fair to say too much power) because we took forever to sort out the top of the house.

 

You can be upset with Eddie for a number of things, but I'm easily blaming the following ahead of him for everything other than his hilarious obsession with making subs at 60 minutes:

1) PSR and the cartel clubs - they haven't been able to completely hold us down, but it's done enough to significantly impact our squad building. It forces us to make close to zero missteps, which we have somehow come close to doing (at least through 2024/25)

2) PIF - as far as transfer business they've allowed us to spend every possible penny, but they've yet to make the significant commitment to the training ground or stadium (I still think it's coming, but it's definitely been slow). They are ultimately responsible for the lack of leadership at the top this past summer.

3) Eales - I don't want to be too harsh on him given the health issues which may have impacted him in ways we don't fully know, but you can make a pretty long list of marks against him. Notably, he needs to carry some of the blame for not having a better plan in June 2024 and he's directly responsible for Mitchell and how that went down.

 

If I'm being pessimistic the final tally on this season probably looks like a 9th place league finish, Champions League R16, League Cup semifinal, FAC 4th round, and revenues over £400m for the first time. You can create a nice sky is falling scenario where none of last summer's signings come good, multiple players leave, and we waste this summer as well. If that happens it will be a true setback and we'll likely have a new manager sometime in 2027. Or you could zoom out a bit, recognize this very well might be a transitional season, be excited about a summer with a leadership group in place, look forward to some very big games coming up, and put some trust in the man who hasn't really steered us wrong yet.

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Jesus Christ are we still running this thing about not needing Barnes? Shoot me

 

 

 

 

Bloke averages a goal every 197 minutes and an assist every 527 minutes. That's decent value iyam.

 

When the likes of Jorgen Strand Larsen are going for £43m (with £5m in add-ons) and Brennan Johnson £35m I reckon Harvey Barnes for £38 is canny value.

[The Prophet]

5 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

(sorry, this started as a response to the Barnes narrative and then meandered through some of my frustrations with the anti-Eddie stuff)

 

If you are unhappy with where the first XI or squad is currently and/or you're unhappy with our lack of business for two years then it can be traced back to that window. It's not about any one specific player, but it is a fact that we overspent. The most generous explanation is the overspending was a calculated gamble backed by a belief there'd be an easy exit ramp come June. The gamble was European progression / the ability to compete in the PL and starting with the CL draw just about everything went against us. Our group, the injuries, Tonali, more injuries, the handball in Paris, and then more injuries. The presumed exit ramp was that Bruno's release clause would be triggered or to sell Joelinton (Ashworth's plan), but Ashworth leaving in the middle of that season meant that we no longer had a plan (that assumes we did have a plan; there's a more damning alternate history that would say we were just drunkenly maxing out the credit card all summer). That led to the Anderson/Minteh scramble, which was unfortunate.

 

The reason this entire debate seems preposterous to some is that we unarguably hit a home run in terms of the players we brought in. It's just that almost all of them took a year to have a significant impact (which should maybe be a lesson when making judgments about this past summer's business). The amount we spent that summer though is also why we then went three windows without adding anyone of significance, which I do think has caught up to us a bit this season.

 

Ultimately the players we bought that summer and the ones we didn't sell are a big reason we won a trophy less than 12 months ago. A trophy many thought they'd never see, so I find it really difficult to care too much about Yankuba Minteh and what might have been. Those players are also the reason we're currently in the Champions League, progressing in the CL, and on course to absolutely shatter our revenue record. 

 

We seem to have (over)reacted to what happened in 2023/24 by telling Staveley to get lost and hiring Mitchell behind the manager's back. You can then draw a solid line connecting those decisions to the Isak saga (it is very possible Isak would have been a prick regardless, but we did not help ourselves). A lesser manager may have crumbled and NUFC would be run by Paul Mitchell right now. Instead, Eddie went and won a trophy and finished 5th which gave him all of the power (probably fair to say too much power) because we took forever to sort out the top of the house.

 

You can be upset with Eddie for a number of things, but I'm easily blaming the following ahead of him for everything other than his hilarious obsession with making subs at 60 minutes:

1) PSR and the cartel clubs - they haven't been able to completely hold us down, but it's done enough to significantly impact our squad building. It forces us to make close to zero missteps, which we have somehow come close to doing (at least through 2024/25)

2) PIF - as far as transfer business they've allowed us to spend every possible penny, but they've yet to make the significant commitment to the training ground or stadium (I still think it's coming, but it's definitely been slow). They are ultimately responsible for the lack of leadership at the top this past summer.

3) Eales - I don't want to be too harsh on him given the health issues which may have impacted him in ways we don't fully know, but you can make a pretty long list of marks against him. Notably, he needs to carry some of the blame for not having a better plan in June 2024 and he's directly responsible for Mitchell and how that went down.

 

If I'm being pessimistic the final tally on this season probably looks like a 9th place league finish, Champions League R16, League Cup semifinal, FAC 4th round, and revenues over £400m for the first time. You can create a nice sky is falling scenario where none of last summer's signings come good, multiple players leave, and we waste this summer as well. If that happens it will be a true setback and we'll likely have a new manager sometime in 2027. Or you could zoom out a bit, recognize this very well might be a transitional season, be excited about a summer with a leadership group in place, look forward to some very big games coming up, and put some trust in the man who hasn't really steered us wrong yet.

 

Top post.

[Adam P]

5 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Less minutes too and had an injury layoff. Sesko is better than Woltemade IMO. 

 

200 minutes less but Woltemade's stats are across the board better, goals, assists, passes, tackles, interceptions. Sesko has more aerial duels. Woltemade has also been contributing and scoring in the Champions League whilst Sesko trained and rested at home. That all said, i think they play different roles and for the role of out and out striker, Sesko has a strong case. 

[nufc123]

Barnes been a really good signing. Whats the problem?

[Vinny Green Balls]

1 hour ago, timeEd32 said:

(sorry, this started as a response to the Barnes narrative and then meandered through some of my frustrations with the anti-Eddie stuff)

 

If you are unhappy with where the first XI or squad is currently and/or you're unhappy with our lack of business for two years then it can be traced back to that window. It's not about any one specific player, but it is a fact that we overspent. The most generous explanation is the overspending was a calculated gamble backed by a belief there'd be an easy exit ramp come June. The gamble was European progression / the ability to compete in the PL and starting with the CL draw just about everything went against us. Our group, the injuries, Tonali, more injuries, the handball in Paris, and then more injuries. The presumed exit ramp was that Bruno's release clause would be triggered or to sell Joelinton (Ashworth's plan), but Ashworth leaving in the middle of that season meant that we no longer had a plan (that assumes we did have a plan; there's a more damning alternate history that would say we were just drunkenly maxing out the credit card all summer). That led to the Anderson/Minteh scramble, which was unfortunate.

 

The reason this entire debate seems preposterous to some is that we unarguably hit a home run in terms of the players we brought in. It's just that almost all of them took a year to have a significant impact (which should maybe be a lesson when making judgments about this past summer's business). The amount we spent that summer though is also why we then went three windows without adding anyone of significance, which I do think has caught up to us a bit this season.

 

Ultimately the players we bought that summer and the ones we didn't sell are a big reason we won a trophy less than 12 months ago. A trophy many thought they'd never see, so I find it really difficult to care too much about Yankuba Minteh and what might have been. Those players are also the reason we're currently in the Champions League, progressing in the CL, and on course to absolutely shatter our revenue record. 

 

We seem to have (over)reacted to what happened in 2023/24 by telling Staveley to get lost and hiring Mitchell behind the manager's back. You can then draw a solid line connecting those decisions to the Isak saga (it is very possible Isak would have been a prick regardless, but we did not help ourselves). A lesser manager may have crumbled and NUFC would be run by Paul Mitchell right now. Instead, Eddie went and won a trophy and finished 5th which gave him all of the power (probably fair to say too much power) because we took forever to sort out the top of the house.

 

You can be upset with Eddie for a number of things, but I'm easily blaming the following ahead of him for everything other than his hilarious obsession with making subs at 60 minutes:

1) PSR and the cartel clubs - they haven't been able to completely hold us down, but it's done enough to significantly impact our squad building. It forces us to make close to zero missteps, which we have somehow come close to doing (at least through 2024/25)

2) PIF - as far as transfer business they've allowed us to spend every possible penny, but they've yet to make the significant commitment to the training ground or stadium (I still think it's coming, but it's definitely been slow). They are ultimately responsible for the lack of leadership at the top this past summer.

3) Eales - I don't want to be too harsh on him given the health issues which may have impacted him in ways we don't fully know, but you can make a pretty long list of marks against him. Notably, he needs to carry some of the blame for not having a better plan in June 2024 and he's directly responsible for Mitchell and how that went down.

 

If I'm being pessimistic the final tally on this season probably looks like a 9th place league finish, Champions League R16, League Cup semifinal, FAC 4th round, and revenues over £400m for the first time. You can create a nice sky is falling scenario where none of last summer's signings come good, multiple players leave, and we waste this summer as well. If that happens it will be a true setback and we'll likely have a new manager sometime in 2027. Or you could zoom out a bit, recognize this very well might be a transitional season, be excited about a summer with a leadership group in place, look forward to some very big games coming up, and put some trust in the man who hasn't really steered us wrong yet.

Great post. I'm bothered by the 60 minute thing as well, but it's been a coaching trope for ages.

 

 

Edited February 2 by Vinny Green Balls

[Mr Misery]

Eales looked fucking useless and it appears now he was fucking useless. Sorry fella.

 

 

Edited February 2 by Mr Misery

[Vinny Green Balls]

2 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

It's one of the forum's weirdest quirks like.  By this point you would at least think that the 'mistake' tag would have been transferred from Barnes to Gordon. 

the other being how our poor form keeps on creeping back further and further in some narratives. end of the season -> after the Cup Final -> all of 2025

[Casey]

Dislike the lack of proactivity at times, the favouritism around selection and unwillingness to play youth at times, and this year he's said a couple of questionable things. That latter point I would never have expected from Eddie with how good he is in the media typically, but so be it there are far worse managers in front of the camera.

 

All that said, I want Eddie to stay and succeed despite gripes. The positives outweigh the negatives and I think he's driven to improve and succeed. That motivation may not be enough, circumstances can sometimes be too much but I'm holding out hope.