Eddie Howe

[Newcastle Fan]

Just now, Yorkie said:

For those who are in the camp of wanting him to be sacked, I'd be curious to know what stock they put in all things not results based. Like how he represents the club publicly, his commitment to the job, how he "gets it," how he stacks up to his peers in terms of things like touchline conduct.

 

Not trying to be incendiary with the question; my cards on the table, that stuff means a great deal to me and provides a fair amount of my reasoning for why I want him to stay. The scales would get tipped eventually or course. 

 

For me results on the field is all that matters, we have club ambassadors for the other stuff.

[Geordie Ahmed]

4 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

League is the bread and butter and we absolutely need European football next season is probably why. 

 

Plus if you break it down it's as follows imo. 

 

League (most important ) under par so far

Cl par (let's not compare this format to others it's night and day and easy work for clubs with big budgets)

Fa cup par

League cup slightly above par. 

 

Throw in the nature of the performances throughout the season with us often looking poorly coached, brittle defensively and struggling to create chances it's not been pretty. 

 

I think FA Cup was above par, we had Bournemouth, Villa away and then City but that's neither here nor there

 

I think if he focused less on the cups we'd be in a better position in the league and this is where I think he needs to make some sacrifices, until we have the squad for it we simply can't go 100% in every competition, people won't care for going deep in competitions if as you say the bread and butter stuff isn't going so well

 

Just look at this place after yesterday, there's people envious of Sunderland, the same Sunderland that was dumped out by Huddersfield and Port Vale in the cups

 

 

[Dokko]

1 minute ago, Yorkie said:

For those who are in the camp of wanting him to be sacked, I'd be curious to know what stock they put in all things not results based. Like how he represents the club publicly, his commitment to the job, how he "gets it," how he stacks up to his peers in terms of things like touchline conduct.

 

Not trying to be incendiary with the question; my cards on the table, that stuff means a great deal to me and provides a fair amount of my reasoning for why I want him to stay. The scales would get tipped eventually or course. 

 

A lot. When you've come from Steve Bruce, even more so. But it's a results and entertainment business, and neither of those things are happening, at least not together or for very long.

 

If I could wave a magic wand - he stays, we recruit well in the summer, we sell equally as well and we start to see progression again. But for me, it takes a magic wand for thst to all happen.

 

 

[Chicken Dancer]

Just now, Yorkie said:

For those who are in the camp of wanting him to be sacked, I'd be curious to know what stock they put in all things not results based. Like how he represents the club publicly, his commitment to the job, how he "gets it," how he stacks up to his peers in terms of things like touchline conduct.

 

Not trying to be incendiary with the question; my cards on the table, that stuff means a great deal to me and provides a fair amount of my reasoning for why I want him to stay. The scales would get tipped eventually or course. 

He’s incredible. He speaks well, he totally gets it and he represents everything I’d want in a Newcastle manager. He’s fully bought into the community and given me my best days following Newcastle, both here and overseas. 
 

I feel dirty demanding change, often questioning my own thinking on the matter. I think ultimately if we were playing really well and on the wrong end of bad luck (see Liverpool game in August) I could live with it because you would think the performances are there so the results will come. 
 

It’s almost the opposite now - we play shit and get shit results. Going ahead and then losing was a problem in autumn, yet here we are with 7 games left and it’s still happening. It’s poor coaching, no doubt about it. 
 

Maybe I have been a tad emotional on the back of yesterday, but putting in two absolutely tepid displays against that lot is unacceptable for me. Yes I’m a local fan but the players just weren’t as up for it as theirs both times, and surely that has on the manager? Totally understand we had two big CL games in the midweek prior to both games, but watching them just dominate the second half yesterday was very damning indeed.

 

This is a team that had scored 8 away from home all season, and 1 goal in their last 8 games. Deserved winners and probably the worst feeling I’ve had leaving the ground in some time. 

[Lush Vlad]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

For those who are in the camp of wanting him to be sacked, I'd be curious to know what stock they put in all things not results based. Like how he represents the club publicly, his commitment to the job, how he "gets it," how he stacks up to his peers in terms of things like touchline conduct.

 

Not trying to be incendiary with the question; I'd extend it to those in the camp of wanting him to stay as well. For me, that stuff means a great deal and provides a fair amount of my reasoning for why I want him to stay. The scales would get tipped eventually or course. 

 

Good question that.  I think the way he is and how he goes about his business.  Gives him even more credit in the bank with me.

 

How I have felt watching us a lot of the time this season and how many games have felt like Groundhog Day.  If he came across as a bit of a twat or made outlandish comments after games.  Then I think I'd be leaning heavily towards wanting another manager.  It's hard to dislike him and not root for him. 

 

FWIW, I don't really know any fans of other clubs that don't like him.  It helps that Tindall acts as a magnet and a bit of a shield for Howe.  All the flak is directed at him  

[r0cafella]

6 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

For those who are in the camp of wanting him to be sacked, I'd be curious to know what stock they put in all things not results based. Like how he represents the club publicly, his commitment to the job, how he "gets it," how he stacks up to his peers in terms of things like touchline conduct.

 

Not trying to be incendiary with the question; I'd extend it to those in the camp of wanting him to stay as well. For me, that stuff means a great deal and provides a fair amount of my reasoning for why I want him to stay. The scales would get tipped eventually or course. 

Fair question and for me those things are a factor for sure but it's very much secondary mind. It's a result based business and given the state of those two derby performances the whole "gets it" talk might be more talk than substance. 

 

Either way wouldn't do anything now he's got this season for me. 

[r0cafella]

4 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

 

I think FA Cup was above par, we had Bournemouth, Villa away and then City but that's neither here nor there

 

I think if he focused less on the cups we'd be in a better position in the league and this is where I think he needs to make some sacrifices, until we have the squad for it we simply can't go 100% in every competition, people won't care for going deep in competitions if as you say the bread and butter stuff isn't going so well

 

Just look at this place after yesterday, there's people envious of Sunderland, the same Sunderland that was dumped out by Huddersfield and Port Vale in the cups

 

 

Im not big on participation trophies personally. Who's going to remember we made it to a quarter final of the fa cup? I think at the start of the season the benchmark was set of we need European qualification so that's what the judgement is based upon for me. 

[Robster]

7 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

For those who are in the camp of wanting him to be sacked, I'd be curious to know what stock they put in all things not results based. Like how he represents the club publicly, his commitment to the job, how he "gets it," how he stacks up to his peers in terms of things like touchline conduct.

 

Not trying to be incendiary with the question; I'd extend it to those in the camp of wanting him to stay as well. For me, that stuff means a great deal and provides a fair amount of my reasoning for why I want him to stay. The scales would get tipped eventually or course. 

Funnily I spoke with a colleague about this very subject this morning.

I am prepared to accept his flaws because of how well he presents himself and represents our club.

When I think of the awful human beings that have been in that position recently, and how insufferable so many other current managers are, I am proud that Eddie Howe is ours.

 

[Holmesy]

15 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

There’s a noticeable lack of nuance in the arguments calling for Eddie to go. Too many people seem to be deliberately oversimplifying things just to win a debate. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I’ve yet to come across a genuinely balanced or convincing case for sacking him.

Arguments for seem to focus around what he has done in the past, a few decent halves of football this season that ultimately came to nothing and him being a fantastic ambassador for the club (which can never be argued against). Plus the old favourite - fatigue.
 

The argument against:

• He only has one playbook (by his own admission) and when that doesn't work, it's more of the same.
• We are as defensively disorganised as we have been for a very long time and nothing seems to be changing.
• We have had two European seasons now where our league form has suffered, suggesting his style is not suited to an intense campaign on two fronts
• The signings made in the summer were not good and have set us back significantly
• We are not seeing the individual player improvements we have in the past. Maybe due to lack of time on the training pitch, but if our only answer to a congested fixture list is to not train, that points to a bigger, overarching problem.
• Our away form has been shocking for a good while
• Our performances in second halves of games this season have been consistently poor.
• His plan A only approach means in-game changes are largely limited to substitutions, which often come too late
• We cannot close out games
• We cannot retain possession, which is the key reason for the point above
• Teams are routinely getting beyond our midfield and into our defence with 1-3 passes and it isn't being addressed
• He doesn't seem good at working with a DoF
• We have consistently struggled to break down stubborn defences due to a lack of technical prowess and guile in midfield

This isn't kneejerk stuff based on a couple of results. Some of these points have been true throughout his tenure here but they have been papered over by our ability to score more than the opposition. It feels like we've been found out and Eddie's response is to keep doing the same thing until it turns around, which there is no sign of it doing.

 

Yes, there are some mitigating circumstances - Board room instability, Isak leaving, illness etc. But none of it excuses what we are seeing on the pitch, especially on the defensive side of things.

There is no lack of gratitude for what he has achieved and the memories he has given us. All of us would love him to turn it around but I just don't see how that can happen when the route causes of our problems are not being addressed.

 

[ChrisMcQuillan]

Great summary @Holmesy

[Geordie Ahmed]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

Im not big on participation trophies personally. Who's going to remember we made it to a quarter final of the fa cup? I think at the start of the season the benchmark was set of we need European qualification so that's what the judgement is based upon for me. 

I get that but if I could be bothered I'm sure there will be a lot that put cup runs (with the aim of winning them obviously) as part of the objective, maybe even the owners

 

I admire Howe for wanting to win every game but this season has hit home that isn't realistic for our club at this moment and if he chucks the cups then so be it (as holders I understood why he wouldn't do that in the League Cup)

[Yorkie]

3 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Yes, there are some mitigating circumstances - Board room instability, Isak leaving, illness etc. But none of it excuses what we are seeing on the pitch, especially on the defensive side of things.

 

What are those circumstances providing mitigation for if not what we're seeing on the pitch? 

[TRC]

4 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Arguments for seem to focus around what he has done in the past, a few decent halves of football this season that ultimately came to nothing and him being a fantastic ambassador for the club (which can never be argued against). Plus the old favourite - fatigue.
 

The argument against:

• He only has one playbook (by his own admission) and when that doesn't work, it's more of the same.
• We are as defensively disorganised as we have been for a very long time and nothing seems to be changing.
• We have had two European seasons now where our league form has suffered, suggesting his style is not suited to an intense campaign on two fronts
• The signings made in the summer were not good and have set us back significantly
• We are not seeing the individual player improvements we have in the past. Maybe due to lack of time on the training pitch, but if our only answer to a congested fixture list is to not train, that points to a bigger, overarching problem.
• Our away form has been shocking for a good while
• Our performances in second halves of games this season have been consistently poor.
• His plan A only approach means in-game changes are largely limited to substitutions, which often come too late
• We cannot close out games
• We cannot retain possession, which is the key reason for the point above
• Teams are routinely getting beyond our midfield and into our defence with 1-3 passes and it isn't being addressed
• He doesn't seem good at working with a DoF
• We have consistently struggled to break down stubborn defences due to a lack of technical prowess and guile in midfield

This isn't kneejerk stuff based on a couple of results. Some of these points have been true throughout his tenure here but they have been papered over by our ability to score more than the opposition. It feels like we've been found out and Eddie's response is to keep doing the same thing until it turns around, which there is no sign of it doing.

 

Yes, there are some mitigating circumstances - Board room instability, Isak leaving, illness etc. But none of it excuses what we are seeing on the pitch, especially on the defensive side of things.

There is no lack of gratitude for what he has achieved and the memories he has given us. All of us would love him to turn it around but I just don't see how that can happen when the route causes of our problems are not being addressed.

 

Nailed it all here. 

[Wallsendmag]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

For those who are in the camp of wanting him to be sacked, I'd be curious to know what stock they put in all things not results based. Like how he represents the club publicly, his commitment to the job, how he "gets it," how he stacks up to his peers in terms of things like touchline conduct.

 

Not trying to be incendiary with the question; I'd extend it to those in the camp of wanting him to stay as well. For me, that stuff means a great deal and provides a fair amount of my reasoning for why I want him to stay. The scales would get tipped eventually or course. 

 

It's a fair question. Actually it's a good question. I absolutely love how Eddie conducts himself, his commitment to the job is beyond question, he's invested in the city, talks about his kids being Geordies, he mingles with the other parents at the grassroots games. He's a true gentleman, in the same mould as Keegan and Sir Bobby. He's in that group of 3 of not only our best modern day managers but also a genuinely nice and decent bloke.

 

Ultimately though it's a results business and results and performances are miles away frpm.where they need to be right now and have been for most of the season. His tactics have been questionable, things that we used to be good at, we aren't any more and he's spent a lot of money on poor players who have taken the club back over unfortunately 

 

If I'm being totally honest the real reason I would be happy for him to leave now is that I couldn't bear the thought of the crowd, the Newcastle public turning against him. It would be utterly horrendous. I thrived in seeing the abuse Bruce took because he's an odious individual who deserved everything he got but Eddie is at the other end of the scale. I don't want any of the good he's done here, and he's done loads, to be tarnished in any way.

 

Absolutely hated watching his post match interview yesterday. He cares so much that it hurts. I actually thought he looked like a broken man. He just doesn't seem to have the answers any more. It's just the same old, same old. 

 

Whatever my thoughts are I believe he has 7 games to save his job. Out of all the cups, back to 1 game a week pretty much, more time on the training pitch with the players and see what happens. If these 7 games mirror the previous 31 and we end up finishing around where we are now I think he'll be away, and I think that would be the best for all parties.

[andyc35i]

49 minutes ago, Sir Joel Inton said:

Best example of this argument is Pep. Has one of the best CVs in world football but I’m not confident he improves us as he’s never had to work under financial constraints or build a club up from the bottom.

 

The compatibility of the right manager to replace Howe at Newcastle does not necessarily correlate to how many times they’ve qualified for the CL or won a League Cup.

But my counter argument to this is at least Pep would bring clarity in our philosophy and drive home our style of play. I’d love for us to be a team that retains possession, emphasises control and flexibility in our movements. You always need better players to be the best, but at least have we’d have a way of playing that you could pick out

[Kid Icarus]

24 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

For all those saying we'd have no chance of landing Alonso (probably cos he once managed Real Madrid), did you expect Everton, the absolute epitome of PL mediocrity, to go out and bring in one of the best and most decorated managers in world football in Carlo Ancelotti?

 

In fact closer to home would bringing in Alonso be a bigger shock to you than when the Mike Ashley NUFC, plummeting to the Championship brought in Rafa Benitez as manager?

 

Nobody knows what might happen so saying X manager will definitely not come here is just plain silly.

 

I hate the use of the word but managers often go to places because they like the "project". If it's of interest to them, they'll be interested themselves.

 

Ancelotti going to Everton was utterly bizarre, I can't think of another example that gets anywhere close to that happening. I think it tells its own story that he was off after only 18 months the moment one of the big boys came in though. 

 

Rafa's slightly different as well I think. It was a shock, definitely, but with hindsight I think he needed to make that step down and hasn't come close to getting back to the level he was known for. I also distinctly remember a portion of our fanbase (and on here) talking very similar to how they do about Howe now - about how Rafa shouldn't be immune to criticism, how the people defending him were Rafa cultists etc

 

Both managers were winding down a bit and not being linked to big clubs at the time as well, whereas Alonso is an up-and-comer who's being linked to everyone, and very, very strongly with Liverpool. 

[KaKa]

There's been so much palaver with getting in a DOF that Howe is happy with that we might as well give them a chance to work together to see what they can come up with next summer.

 

If the summer is another mess and the ensuing season doesn't look like it's going to go well then make a change at the turn of the year or something.

[r0cafella]

Just now, KaKa said:

There's been so much palaver with getting in a DOF that Howe is happy with that we might as well give them a chance to work together to see what they can come up with next summer.

 

If the summer is another mess and the ensuing season doesn't look like it's going to go well then make a change at the turn of the year or something.

If your letting them spend money you better be sure they will make it to the end of the season. Spinning lots again for him to be fired part way through next season is pretty much worst case scenario for the club. 

[Mattoon]

8 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

Arguments for seem to focus around what he has done in the past, a few decent halves of football this season that ultimately came to nothing and him being a fantastic ambassador for the club (which can never be argued against). Plus the old favourite - fatigue.
 

The argument against:

• He only has one playbook (by his own admission) and when that doesn't work, it's more of the same.
• We are as defensively disorganised as we have been for a very long time and nothing seems to be changing.
• We have had two European seasons now where our league form has suffered, suggesting his style is not suited to an intense campaign on two fronts
• The signings made in the summer were not good and have set us back significantly
• We are not seeing the individual player improvements we have in the past. Maybe due to lack of time on the training pitch, but if our only answer to a congested fixture list is to not train, that points to a bigger, overarching problem.
• Our away form has been shocking for a good while
• Our performances in second halves of games this season have been consistently poor.
• His plan A only approach means in-game changes are largely limited to substitutions, which often come too late
• We cannot close out games
• We cannot retain possession, which is the key reason for the point above
• Teams are routinely getting beyond our midfield and into our defence with 1-3 passes and it isn't being addressed
• He doesn't seem good at working with a DoF
• We have consistently struggled to break down stubborn defences due to a lack of technical prowess and guile in midfield

This isn't kneejerk stuff based on a couple of results. Some of these points have been true throughout his tenure here but they have been papered over by our ability to score more than the opposition. It feels like we've been found out and Eddie's response is to keep doing the same thing until it turns around, which there is no sign of it doing.

 

Yes, there are some mitigating circumstances - Board room instability, Isak leaving, illness etc. But none of it excuses what we are seeing on the pitch, especially on the defensive side of things.

There is no lack of gratitude for what he has achieved and the memories he has given us. All of us would love him to turn it around but I just don't see how that can happen when the route causes of our problems are not being addressed.

 

 

Most of which are explained by the mitigating factors that you admit exist but refuse to accept anyway? These aren't issues that have been ongoing throughout his tenure, these are problems caused from what was an horrific summer, so those wanting to keep him aren't "just going off the past" they're accepting not everything we've seen this season is down to Howe and he deserves another crack at the whip given a more stable post/pre-season to prove he isn't the problem.

 

It's not that I don't see what you're saying, it's that I don't apportion the blame solely at Howe's door and that's the nuance to it.

[Sir Joel Inton]

24 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

For those who are in the camp of wanting him to be sacked, I'd be curious to know what stock they put in all things not results based. Like how he represents the club publicly, his commitment to the job, how he "gets it," how he stacks up to his peers in terms of things like touchline conduct.

 

Not trying to be incendiary with the question; I'd extend it to those in the camp of wanting him to stay as well. For me, that stuff means a great deal and provides a fair amount of my reasoning for why I want him to stay. The scales would get tipped eventually or course. 

 

He’s sensational on all those points. He’s been one of the best Ambassadors the club has ever had.

 

I also dispute wanting him sacked. Thinking he should be and being genuinely sad about him being sacked does not necessarily equal wanting him to be sacked.

 

I’ve said several times my preferred outcome would be to see the improvement to give hope he could take us to where we aspire to get to. 

[andyc35i]

I think he’s going to be given the chance to go again and the club need to back him with a summer window that isn’t a total shit show. By that I don’t mean the names of the players signed, I mean getting these signings (whoever they are)early so we can work on improving. Obviously, you’d like to think we’d sign better than last summer, but we need a settled summer with football being the focus

 

 

Edited March 24 by andyc35i

[Scottish Mag]

1 hour ago, Jesse Pinkman said:

Interesting, looking at the Bournemouth fanbase many stating they wouldn’t take Eddie back now as Iraola, according to them, is a significantly better manager.

 

People on here deride Iraola, but he’s barely had any budget and basically lost his defence in the summer yet he is still developing talent and unearthing gems and playing a good style of football. Imagine what he could do with £500m

 

 

 

 

This is a narrative that continually gets repeated to back an argument rather than something that actually holds up.
 

Bournemouth have spent roughly €520m since Iraola came in, about €170m a season, so the “barely had a budget” angle doesn’t really stand.  Admittedly that’s based on FootballTransfers data so might be a few million either way, but ultimately there isn’t much in it.
 

For context, Newcastle under Howe are around €780m in total, which works out at roughly €180m a season. So there’s not a huge gap there annually.

He’s done well, but it’s not a case of doing it on scraps. Even looking elsewhere where the same lines get rolled out also, Brighton under Hürzeler are spending at a similar level again, and while Glasner at Palace has spent less, even he isn’t operating on pennies.

[CheikBoom]

15 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

If I'm being totally honest the real reason I would be happy for him to leave now is that I couldn't bear the thought of the crowd, the Newcastle public turning against him. It would be utterly horrendous. I thrived in seeing the abuse Bruce took because he's an odious individual who deserved everything he got but Eddie is at the other end of the scale. I don't want any of the good he's done here, and he's done loads, to be tarnished in any way.

 

Absolutely hated watching his post match interview yesterday. He cares so much that it hurts. I actually thought he looked like a broken man. He just doesn't seem to have the answers any more. It's just the same old, same old. 

This is the part for me that's tough. Under no circumstances should Eddie have the public turn against him. I want him to stay and believe he still is the right man for the job, but if he was to go I'd prefer it to be on his terms. 

[Holmesy]

Just now, Yorkie said:

 

What are those circumstances providing mitigation for if not what we're seeing on the pitch? 

Isak leaving has contributed to a disjointed attack, no doubt, but he never played DM or CB so it doesn't explain our shocking defending. 
Board room disruption probably accounts for our lack of transfer window preparation and our shit acquisitions. Again, doesn't explain why we can't defend for shit or why our players aren't coached to retain possession.

Illness, who knows. Maybe it has knocked Eddie more than we know and affected his decision making or energy on the training pitch.

None of it explains why we only have one gameplan, can't keep possession and are consistently wide open at the back. That is down to the manager alone.

Plenty of lesser teams have built defensively resilient units with lesser players than we have. When we're consistently throwing away points, it would be a good place for us to start, but it's not Eddie's M.O. Seemingly, he would rather throw away points trying to win than collect points setting us up to be hard to beat and building from there when his original plan-A isn't working. 

[KaKa]

11 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

If your letting them spend money you better be sure they will make it to the end of the season. Spinning lots again for him to be fired part way through next season is pretty much worst case scenario for the club. 

 

Then maybe discussions have to be had about what Howe wants to do this summer and how that all looks, and someone is going to have to make a call on whether they should stick with him and back him or not.

 

Me personally, I'd let him have the summer regardless and see what he can manage with Wilson, and if it goes tits up then major changes are likely need across the board anyway, and the season is likely to be a wash with or without him staying till the end.

 

 

Edited March 23 by KaKa