Eddie Howe

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Yorkie said:

 

Hang on. It's coffee, fag and shit time where @TheBrownBottle is in the world. Time to go again.

All nighter with the bairn?

 

I'm just about finished my shift for the night.

[Mills and Boon]

I was going to kip but someone mentioned Steve Bruce so now I've had to turn the light on to chase away the night terrors

[dcmk]

Just now, Mills and Boon said:

We're 4 or 5 points off where you'd expect us to be comparing wage spend on the squad. Having lost a key player and had more games than anyone.

 

Hardly massively underperforming like. I think the fact that we've tended to overachieve under Howe has made it look worse than it really is to some

 

Gutted that we didn't sign a top goalkeeper in the summer.

 

And a mobile striker, we all thought (well I certainly did at least) that Wissa would get us the goals but hasn't materialised.

 

Not having a good keeper or striker has probably cost us 10 points at least.

[TheBrownBottle]

15 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Hang on. It's coffee, fag and shit time where @TheBrownBottle is in the world. Time to go again.

It’s log in time now  

[Yorkie]

Just now, TheBrownBottle said:

It’s log in time now  

 

That's what I meant. Or were you just confirming that you were off for a shite? 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Yorkie said:

 

That's what I meant. Or were you just confirming that you were off for a shite? 

Already ‘dropped the kids off at the park’ Yorkie  

 

Funny thing is I’d actually commented in the wrong thread - thought it was the other thread.  Was genuinely not trying to cause tumult in this one!

[Stuy_O]

I think the arguments blaming and not blaming psr in the broader landscape are both valid. We've spent a fortune because we had too, but equally we've spent in one window out of the last how many? The squad is both expensively assembled and beyond stale.

 

What you can't blame PSR for are the decisions Howe or his players are making in game. The baffling substitutions or the lack of what look like pretty clear changes (Dan Burn vs Brentford away).  It's not PSR's fault we look like an U21 team trying to see a game out.

 

He could try a new system out in these remaining games, get Wolte and Wissa on the field telling them to prove themselves Newcastle players, which I don't think many people would have a problem with, but he refuses. I don't think thats on PSR either. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13 by Stuy_O

[Zero]

You guys totally ignored that Liverpool has extremely strict control of transfers, that the DOF would dictate all the in and outs. Thats a core reason why Klopp got fed up and quit. They just want a head coach to sort out the tactics. They don’t want a manager.

 

They won’t consider Howe. Totally unfit.

[Zero]

Arne Slot is a very limited head coach, but his job is safe now despite the struggle in early season. Why? Because he showed that he can fit in Wirtz into the squad, given time. Thats what Liverpool management wants. They can accept no champions this season as long as the new purchase can fit in. 
 

In contrast, Howe, totally ignored the long term impact to the team and squad value, by putting Wissa on the bench and misplayed / mishandled Woltemade. Nevermind Elanga and Ramsay.

 

Put it this way. The Liverpool management wants a head coach to

solve their problems, even if it’s the management who create the problem. Not vice versa. Arne Slot marginally did the job this season so he’s safe.

 

If you understand this, you will know they would never consider Howe. 

[Ilovetoon8788]

1 hour ago, Zero said:

You guys totally ignored that Liverpool has extremely strict control of transfers, that the DOF would dictate all the in and outs. Thats a core reason why Klopp got fed up and quit. They just want a head coach to sort out the tactics. They don’t want a manager.

 

They won’t consider Howe. Totally unfit.

I think their approach is one extreme and ours is the other where Howe has a very huge say on transfers. 

 

Id prefer somewhat in the middle approach but I don't think Howe would accept the conditions. 

 

The disastrous summer is largely Howe's doing. 

[bobbydazzla]

Nothing ever changes by staying the same. Quite literally. 

[Robster]

4 hours ago, Zero said:

Arne Slot is a very limited head coach, but his job is safe now despite the struggle in early season. Why? Because he showed that he can fit in Wirtz into the squad, given time. Thats what Liverpool management wants. They can accept no champions this season as long as the new purchase can fit in. 
 

In contrast, Howe, totally ignored the long term impact to the team and squad value, by putting Wissa on the bench and misplayed / mishandled Woltemade. Nevermind Elanga and Ramsay.

 

Put it this way. The Liverpool management wants a head coach to

solve their problems, even if it’s the management who create the problem. Not vice versa. Arne Slot marginally did the job this season so he’s safe.

 

If you understand this, you will know they would never consider Howe. 

I would believe that that is quite far from the truth.

Alonso is breathing down his neck and Liverpool fans want it to happen.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

4 hours ago, Ilovetoon8788 said:

I think their approach is one extreme and ours is the other where Howe has a very huge say on transfers. 

 

Id prefer somewhat in the middle approach but I don't think Howe would accept the conditions. 

 

The disastrous summer is largely Howe's doing. 

Haven’t we already changed the exec team and established that Howe does accept those conditions? 

[Holmesy]

10 hours ago, gdm said:

Mad how quickly things change. Half way in to season people on here were panicking Liverpool would come in for EH

 

he deserves and should get the summer to go away and work on different things and sort this mess out. 

This is the crux. He needs to the opportunity to show he can do it differently and is willing to more importantly. If he isn't that should be identified now and I think we have to make plans to move on. 

 

[TRon]

12 hours ago, Heron said:

Elanga had some of the most assists last season so it's not that stupid to have wanted him.

 

We tried to sign Ekitke, Joao Pedro, Delap and Sesko before Woltemade and Wissa.

 

Thiaw has proven to be a great addition and Ramsay is also looking fairly solid.

 

We sold Isak late in the window after saying we wouldn't sell him.

 

 

I don't have any argument with any of that. I just think i't wrong to give credit for the good signings to Howe then pass the blame to the lack of DOF for the bad ones we made last summer. 

 

Tbh I think the only real difference a DOF would have made is that we might have refused to pay over the odds like we did for a few players. I think the players who turned us down would have anyway. 

[Zero]

2 hours ago, Robster said:

I would believe that that is quite far from the truth.

Alonso is breathing down his neck and Liverpool fans want it to happen.

 

Liverpool fans want it to happen but that does not align with their managements interest. As long as they finished top 5 Slot would be safe.

[Gallowgate Toon]

As much as I have my frustrations with Howe, I'm finding the discourse around him currently extremely disrespectful. Some fans don't deserve him. 

 

We know how good he can be, there could be (and are) extremely valid reasons for whatever's gone down this season so far & some of the weird things we're seeing from him. Imo, you have to look at his entire body of work with us and analyse that rather than just this season, especially when the mooted alternatives are pretty mediocre imo.

 

I was watching the AWSF podcast last night and there was a suggestion it's too far gone - bollocks, football can change very quickly; Howe has literally proved this with us already when he took us from relegation fodder to CL qualifiers in 18 months. Maybe some of the current players aren't responding to him anymore, maybe the club's lack of direction or the splitting nature of the Isak situation has created a mental block for some of them. Fine, move them on if they're not committed to NUFC or don't think they can be back at 100% in.

 

As a club, we need to figure out what we're doing to achieve our publicly stated ambitions before this summer. The initial honeymoon is over, we need to set a strong, stable direction for the next phase - players/agents won't buy in at all otherwise. As fans, we'll buy in too if we can see where it's all going.

[Zero]

The only top team that might consider Howe is Arsenal. Man Utd and Chelsea are also similar to Liverpool - it’s the DOF that hold the power, not the “head coach”. They know Howe isn’t flexible enough to fit in their current structure 

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, Zero said:

The only top team that might consider Howe is Arsenal. Man Utd and Chelsea are also similar to Liverpool - it’s the DOF that hold the power, not the “head coach”. They know Howe isn’t flexible enough to fit in their current structure 

 

Any evidence to back that up?

[Robster]

6 minutes ago, Zero said:

 

Liverpool fans want it to happen but that does not align with their managements interest. As long as they finished top 5 Slot would be safe.

I want you to be correct as I think he's rubbish and will keep Liverpool (relatively) mediocre for as long as he's there. Will also keep Isak looking shite as he has no clue as to how balance him and Ekitike.

You know what Liverpool fans are like though. They'll march in the streets if they want him out. They are already booing his team. The writing is on the wall IMO

[TRon]

10 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Why are you choosing the spend for 5 years, but only choosing the position we're in now and not all of the achievements in between? You can't have it both ways.

 

 

 

 

Fans are always going o judge on what's going on now, achievements from previous seasons don't count for much if the current one is going tits up. 

 

The board will need to take a more holistic view. They should have some idea whether there are mitigating circumstances for a poor season and if Howe can implement their vision ongoing. 

 

FWIW I don't think we will be making big signings this summer unless we sell big players. We'll be recruiting future stars, and that might not sit well with Howe anyway. 

[Mattoon]

16 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

As much as I have my frustrations with Howe, I'm finding the discourse around him currently extremely disrespectful. Some fans don't deserve him. 

 

We know how good he can be, there could be (and are) extremely valid reasons for whatever's gone down this season so far & some of the weird things we're seeing from him. Imo, you have to look at his entire body of work with us and analyse that rather than just this season, especially when the mooted alternatives are pretty mediocre imo.

 

I was watching the AWSF podcast last night and there was a suggestion it's too far gone - bollocks, football can change very quickly; Howe has literally proved this with us already when he took us from relegation fodder to CL qualifiers in 18 months. Maybe some of the current players aren't responding to him anymore, maybe the club's lack of direction or the splitting nature of the Isak situation has created a mental block for some of them. Fine, move them on if they're not committed to NUFC or don't think they can be back at 100% in.

 

As a club, we need to figure out what we're doing to achieve our publicly stated ambitions before this summer. The initial honeymoon is over, we need to set a strong, stable direction for the next phase - players/agents won't buy in at all otherwise. As fans, we'll buy in too if we can see where it's all going.

 

I agree with this, I think that the Isak situation shook the foundations of the club and the players that were clearly backing him, it's probably caused some disillusionment in the squad, questioning how "big" we actually are, how we deal with players if the broken promises are true and of course the damage to confidence in losing one of the top strikers in the world.

[Stal]

I have always been a massive advocate of Eddie Howe and still want him to stay, but I want him to learn. I know he's capable of it, he talked about how he improved his game before he came to us, I just wish he would show it. I was all for defending him based on the point that he doesn't have the time on the training pitch. He always gets the best out of players when he gets to mold them into his system. I also get that we were gazumped time and time again by the sky six over signings so we were way down the list and forced to pick up 4th choicers at premium prices. But it's not just that aspect that he should be judged on.

 

I was watching some of our Youtube channels last night to get a wider view of why the split on Howe is there. Sadly, the Toon Review is now basically the main one just echoing the views of his darling chest scat aficionado mate and, whilst I enjoy Billy, with no balanced view from the Statto one it's just a chore to watch. That Adam bloke is a joke so skipped him, but watched the Geordie Journos and then a bloke called The Noise who has always been super balanced (he explained why Woltermade was the logical choice to play midfield when we had a shortage of players there for example). He pretty much pointed out the stuff that was obviously there but for some reason (maybe my Eddie fanboying) I hadn't really appreciated or acknowledged and that's his in game management. He called out use of the "Eddie Time" subs, the lack of a change of plan, the unwillingness to change, the putting on subs with less than 5 minutes to effect a game, subbing off players who could be on a ban if they get booked and a few other things. I just don't get why he is refusing to learn or try new things.

 

I really want him to stay but the amount of disappointing results and our league position, combined with my acknowledging the other issues, is making it very hard to keep backing him. He has worked wonders for us and I would love him to be our alex ferguson but he needs to start learning and take risks in doing things differently. This season has been a write off in terms of 4th choice signings, poor league position, damn unlucky cup draws, agents stirring up shit, no training time and bad luck in general and I think this has had a knock on effect on everyone. We just haven't been able to catch a break.

 

I want him here next season, and I think he deserves it, but he has a lot to work on in himself as well as the team.

[Geordie Ahmed]

5 hours ago, Ilovetoon8788 said:

I think their approach is one extreme and ours is the other where Howe has a very huge say on transfers. 

 

Id prefer somewhat in the middle approach but I don't think Howe would accept the conditions. 

 

The disastrous summer is largely Howe's doing. 

 

Howe has accepted the conditions from day 1, the understanding being that the sporting director, scouting team and Howe all need to agree on a signing (was it Ashworth that spoke about a traffic light system?)

 

The problem with last summer is we didn't have a Sporting Director so that part of it was lost and impacted us in a number of ways

 

 

[Pilko]

4 minutes ago, Stal said:

I have always been a massive advocate of Eddie Howe and still want him to stay, but I want him to learn. I know he's capable of it, he talked about how he improved his game before he came to us, I just wish he would show it. I was all for defending him based on the point that he doesn't have the time on the training pitch. He always gets the best out of players when he gets to mold them into his system. I also get that we were gazumped time and time again by the sky six over signings so we were way down the list and forced to pick up 4th choicers at premium prices. But it's not just that aspect that he should be judged on.

 

I was watching some of our Youtube channels last night to get a wider view of why the split on Howe is there. Sadly, the Toon Review is now basically the main one just echoing the views of his darling chest scat aficionado mate and, whilst I enjoy Billy, with no balanced view from the Statto one it's just a chore to watch. That Adam bloke is a joke so skipped him, but watched the Geordie Journos and then a bloke called The Noise who has always been super balanced (he explained why Woltermade was the logical choice to play midfield when we had a shortage of players there for example). He pretty much pointed out the stuff that was obviously there but for some reason (maybe my Eddie fanboying) I hadn't really appreciated or acknowledged and that's his in game management. He called out use of the "Eddie Time" subs, the lack of a change of plan, the unwillingness to change, the putting on subs with less than 5 minutes to effect a game, subbing off players who could be on a ban if they get booked and a few other things. I just don't get why he is refusing to learn or try new things.

 

I really want him to stay but the amount of disappointing results and our league position, combined with my acknowledging the other issues, is making it very hard to keep backing him. He has worked wonders for us and I would love him to be our alex ferguson but he needs to start learning and take risks in doing things differently. This season has been a write off in terms of 4th choice signings, poor league position, damn unlucky cup draws, agents stirring up shit, no training time and bad luck in general and I think this has had a knock on effect on everyone. We just haven't been able to catch a break.

 

I want him here next season, and I think he deserves it, but he has a lot to work on in himself as well as the team.

 

Good post this, and you've articulated the bit about him talking about learning but not showing it so much better than I've been able to. 

 

On reflection I understand why he's not made radical changes mid-season when there's a lack of training time to work on it, so rather than gamble on an unfamiliar setup he's just doubling down on what he and the players know and hoping that sees us through this season.

 

The bit I'm a mix of interested, worried and keen to see is: after a summer break and then a pre-season to work on things, will we see a fresh approach and more control of games or just more of the same?