Eddie Howe

[Myleftboot]

1 minute ago, maze said:

Soooooo… I’m intrigued to know what we have «learned» from this experience….

Klopp is still a massive cunt.

[80]

Most promising performance in a while. Not that that's a big compliment.

 

First time we finished a game stronger than we started since at least November. First 30 minutes were dire but then we began to settle in and play with a belief we haven't had for weeks.

 

It's blazingly obvious that fitness issues are a massive factor in the vast majority of criticisms you can make of us right now. Whether it's worn out players, players nursing muscles through matches or selection choices. That will continue to be the case for at least a couple more weeks. Just to prove we can do it I would love to see us set up to rope a dope Liverpool in one game. But there's such a lack of athleticism in the team right now that tonight was not the time, even if Howe was willing to consider it.

 

Putting aside the fitness, it's clear Liverpool's players are a level above many of ours technically. Longstaff, Almiron, Burn and Joelinton too God love him. We have to cut our strategic cloth accordingly.

 

I totally agree with people asking whatever happened to our spiky, dark arts-practicing squad. We're a lot less special nowadays.

 

 

Edited January 1 by 80

[ponsaelius]

Howe has been unlucky with injuries and suspensions, there is no doubt. We banked in the summer on adding depth at fullback, making sure we had four hard working wingers who we could run into the ground, and a midfielder who could cover both #8 as well as Bruno's role (in theory). Clearly the idea was to maximise the resources, facilitated in part by actually selling our one wild card, to double down on our style of play and make sure we had the depth to push it across multiple competitions. Ultimately we have tried to reinforce what worked last year - rather than look to enhance/augment what we've got and give us something different to win games. Whether that was signing a number 10/wide attacker who can play between the lines, a designated defensive midfielder to give us more control in transition, another striker who could offer more out of possession than Wilson etc etc - these were options that were available to us and we chose not to go for.

 

I think it's not unreasonable to say at this point that it has backfired. This is partly through sheer bad luck in the case of Tonali and Barnes in particular. But our inability to change it up or find other ways to win games has made this season's crash far worse and also I'm afraid made Howe look increasingly naive. We've ran players into the ground and made injuries worse, which has increasingly made our fundsmental style of play ineffective, which has now increasingly made players devoid of confidence. Confidence that has been rattled further by crashing out of the cups and leaving the season effectively over by January. It is a vicious spiral and I think, mitigating factors accepted, Howe has to take blame and be questioned for it. Both for his input in transfer decisions (we know he will have had some) and how we have adapted this season to very different circumstances.

 

 

Edited January 1 by ponsaelius

[LiquidAK]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

You can’t say he could have played youth and then say he’s had his hands tied. He hasn’t - he’s just chosen this path. 
 

He knew we would have 11 games in 35 games. Has it been good management for Bruno G to play damn near every minute of it? IMO it’s a massive blunder. It was always going to end with our star man putting in substandard performances.  Ditto for most of the lads. 

 

This has been explained to you a few times, but sure I'll bite. The freak (read: UNPREDICTABLE) injuries (multiple broken bones, dislocated shoulder, gambling ban etc.) meant that in hindsight, yes he could've rotated earlier in the season, but by the time this had happened, the unpredictable ones have tied his hands.

 

I did say I can see the argument for just throwing the youth in anyway this month, but you've ignored that, so thanks. 

[Wullie]

Liverpool brought on Jota, Gakpo, Gravenberch and Mac Allister. Harvey Elliott didn't get on. They have injuries too, Matip, Robertson, Tsimikas, Thiago. Both their quality left backs are fucked and they still have Joe Gomez to play there.

 

That's what rotation is meant to look like when you play a CL campaign, two elite XIs plus cover even for them. We're squabbling over whether Lewis Hall and Matt Ritchie should have been given an extra 20 minutes, it's deckchairs on the Titanic stuff.

 

The problem for any club that qualifies out of the blue like we did is that all the other clubs in it, especially in England, have built CL capable squads up over a decade. FFP stops us doing that in one go or even several.

[Jonas]

3 minutes ago, Jaqen said:

Why are people persisting with the 'you can't criticise Howe' line? You clearly can, the thread is full of criticism after every loss 

 

 

He was plenty criticised for only drawing a few games last season.

The people that did it ended up looking daft but it never stopped them then or since.

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Totally agree.  It doesn’t work with me either.

 

And I don’t remember the ‘remember where we were with Ossie’ stuff when KK’s side had a bad run, or ‘remember where we were with Gullit’ under Robson (who’s sides had some really bad batches of form).

 

Howe is a far, far better manager than Bruce, and has got things out of players they both had that Bruce couldn’t dream of.  Howe has also been massively backed to the tune of almost half a billion over four windows, and isn’t managing at a club with a poisonous atmosphere with a hated ownership which sends him into every presser to be its mouthpiece.

 

It’s a very, very different club today. 

Tbf, in 94/95 our biggest whinge was Paul Kitson. It's not like KK had to regularly rely on the likes of Guppy, Neilsen and Jeffrey for half a season and turn them from water into wine.

[Dokko]

2 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Howeh, its mendacious to suggest our success last season was solely Howe running players into the ground and getting lucky with injuries. 

 

There's going to be a difference in intensity between playing Zrinjski, Legia Warsaw & AZ Alkmaar and playing PSG, Dortmund and Milan, like. The difference in quality of teams in the Conference League and the Champions League is polarising. I agree with possibly the thought of adjusting how we play or manage games slightly this season and reduce the intensity with the added games by signing first team ready players that look after the ball in midfield a lot more than our current lot can, which we didn't do in the summer.

 

There is a load of factors, but it's the Howe thread and what he's been able to control or change is where I'm discussing. It's very hard to bring all into it in one (especially on a phone, after a defeat when the thread is moving at fast pace) but to counter your statement it's more than just injuries to blame. There's the root cause, the mitigation and recovery and response which for me has all been off.  

 

This month (Jan) is more on the club than Howe. They've seen him and his squad struggle, it's time to match their ambition and talk of being the best with some serious season saving action in the market. You'll be pleased to know my focus will be on them pulling their weight as they are the only ones who can help him out and believe me, I really hope they do and this just a big blip we talk about for years and not actually the end of Howe.

[Wandy]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Not really. I mean, I do disagree with your view (particularly re the manager) but I wouldn't have called you entitled if you'd only said the above. It was the use of the word 'disgrace', which I equate to you going on like you're owed something, which provoked me saying that. 

 

Jesus, you dont know when to stop digging do you? 

 

You thought it was perfectly fine to highlight a perceived flaw in my character since I used a slightly emotive word on a football forum.

 

Of course, it wasn't the team performance that was the issue...it's me as a fan that is the problem here.

 

Log off mate, your having a mare here.

[LiquidAK]

Just now, Wandy said:

 

Jesus, you dont know when to stop digging do you? 

 

You thought it was perfectly fine to highlight a perceived flaw in my character since I used a slightly emotive word on a football forum.

 

Of course, it wasn't the team performance that was the issue...it's me as a fan that is the problem here.

 

Log off mate, your having a mare here.

You're really not coming across as reasonable as you think you are. 

[The College Dropout]

For me - if Ritchie starts 5 games, I don’t blame Howe. That’s the squad he has. For me - that’s more forgivable than running players into the ground. 

[Heron]

16 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You can’t say he could have played youth and then say he’s had his hands tied. He hasn’t - he’s just chosen this path. 
 

He knew we would have 11 games in 35 games. Has it been good management for Bruno G to play damn near every minute of it? IMO it’s a massive blunder. It was always going to end with our star man putting in substandard performances.  Ditto for most of the lads. 

It's the path he has chosen, that's right. Was playing youngsters with reduced quality the absolute solution? maybe - we'll never know. But if it wasn't then he'd have broken the confidence of young kids who are starting out and got shit for it and instead he has some more experienced pros now managing a situation they will likely have experience of. Might not be what we wanted to see, but probably good man management (in a worst case scenario).

 

 

Edited January 1 by Heron

[maze]

Just now, Wullie said:

Liverpool brought on Jota, Gakpo, Gravenberch and Mac Allister. Harvey Elliott didn't get on. They have injuries too, Matip, Robertson, Tsimikas, Thiago. Both their quality left backs are fucked and they still have Joe Gomez to play there.

 

That's what rotation is meant to look like when you play a CL campaign, two elite XIs plus cover even for them. We're squabbling over whether Lewis Hall and Matt Ritchie should have been given an extra 20 minutes, it's deckchairs on the Titanic stuff.

 

The problem for any club that qualifies out of the blue like we did is that all the other clubs in it, especially in England, have built CL capable squads up over a decade. FFP stops us doing that in one go or even several.

And that my friend is why modern football is fucked up and rigged so that the big clubs will remain big for eternity. 

[Ronaldo]

4 minutes ago, nufc123 said:

Got nothing to do with Howe out or anything, but I cant understand why we are so utterly terrible in possession away from home again and again. Game after game. Sometimes it look like we havent kicked a ball before. 

We’re so bad under pressure on the ball. Shockingly so, in fact. We’re the epitome of the British flat track bully away from home. In fairness to Howe you can only do so much to make Sean Longstaff a technically efficient player in tight spaces - that ship sailed a while ago. I felt bad for Miley tonight. He was a deer in headlights from the first whistle on and off the ball. But who can blame him, he’s 17. 
 

Same with the counterattacking issue. Look at the quality of Liverpool’s compared to ours. Unlike us they have 2 ways to win a game. But they’ve got players in midfield and out wide who make the right decisions and execute consistently. 

[The College Dropout]

Anyways - another week to recover. A couple weeks off coming up. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

I can only speak for myself but I will happily accept criticisms of Howe if people can provide valid alternatives as to what could have been done at the same times and with the same resources as at that time.

 

So far, a lot of what I am reading (albeit on WA and X) is hypothetical bullshit and folk just saying things are shit.

 

What's the fucking point in that?

 

More rotation - Hall, Ritchie & Tino earlier in the season

 

A plan of attack other than the right wing overlap

 

Attempt something different when teams aren't pressing the shit out of us. Be more direct, shoot more often, I dunno, I'm not a football manager but doing the same thing over and over can't be the answer.

 

A lot of frustration comes from seemingly only having a plan A. You can't do that in the PL, losing at home to Forest, away to Bournemouth and Luton and expect absolutely zero critique.

 

FWIW I want him to be given time to sort it out.

[Ikon]

5 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Howe has been unlucky with injuries and suspensions, there is no doubt. We banked in the summer on adding depth at fullback, making sure we had four hard working wingers who we could run into the ground, and a midfielder who could cover both #8 as well as Bruno's role (in theory). Clearly the idea was to maximise the resources, facilitated in part by actually selling our one wild card, to double down on our style of play and make sure we had the depth to push it across multiple competitions. Ultimately we have tried to reinforce what worked last year - rather than look to enhance/augment what we've got and give us something different to win games. Whether that was signing a number 10/wide attacker who can play between the lines, a designated defensive midfielder to give us more control in transition, another striker who could offer more out of possession than Wilson etc etc - these were options that were available to us and we chose not to go for.

 

I think it's not unreasonable to say at this point that it has backfired. This is partly through sheer bad luck in the case of Tonali and Barnes in particular. But our inability to change it up or find other ways to win games has made this season's crash far worse and also I'm afraid made Howe look increasingly naive. We've ran players into the ground and made injuries worse, which has increasingly made our fundsmental style of play ineffective, which has now increasingly made players devoid of confidence. Confidence that has been rattled further by crashing out of the cups and leaving the season effectively over by January. It is a vicious spiral and I think, mitigating factors accepted, Howe has to take blame and be questioned for it. Both for his input in transfer decisions (we know he will have had some) and how we have adapted this season to very different circumstances.

 

 

 

Fair and good post imo and I agree with a lot of it. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Kid Icarus said:

Tbf, in 94/95 our biggest whinge was Paul Kitson. It's not like KK had to regularly rely on the likes of Guppy, Neilsen and Jeffrey for half a season and turn them from water into wine.

True, though it also wasn’t much of a squad game back then.

 

It was closer to that in BR’s time, of course.

 

I do get a wee bit annoyed at the ‘think of where we were under Ashley’ crack though, as if the club is working in the same circumstances just with different personalities.  It’s as irritating as the ‘that was a Steve Bruce performance’ when we play badly.  I’ve not seen a Howe NUFC side ever look as lost as any Bruce side did in an average match.  

[Dokko]

6 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Howe has been unlucky with injuries and suspensions, there is no doubt. We banked in the summer on adding depth at fullback, making sure we had four hard working wingers who we could run into the ground, and a midfielder who could cover both #8 as well as Bruno's role (in theory). Clearly the idea was to maximise the resources, facilitated in part by actually selling our one wild card, to double down on our style of play and make sure we had the depth to push it across multiple competitions. Ultimately we have tried to reinforce what worked last year - rather than look to enhance/augment what we've got and give us something different to win games. Whether that was signing a number 10/wide attacker who can play between the lines, a designated defensive midfielder to give us more control in transition, another striker who could offer more out of possession than Wilson etc etc - these were options that were available to us and we chose not to go for.

 

I think it's not unreasonable to say at this point that it has backfired. This is partly through sheer bad luck in the case of Tonali and Barnes in particular. But our inability to change it up or find other ways to win games has made this season's crash far worse and also I'm afraid made Howe look increasingly naive. We've ran players into the ground and made injuries worse, which has increasingly made our fundsmental style of play ineffective, which has now increasingly made players devoid of confidence. Confidence that has been rattled further by crashing out of the cups and leaving the season effectively over by January. It is a vicious spiral and I think, mitigating factors accepted, Howe has to take blame and be questioned for it. Both for his input in transfer decisions (we know he will have had some) and how we have adapted this season to very different circumstances.

 

 

 

 

Spot fucking on.

[Yorkie]

1 minute ago, Wandy said:

 

Jesus, you dont know when to stop digging do you? 

 

You thought it was perfectly fine to highlight a perceived flaw in my character since I used a slightly emotive word on a football forum.

 

Of course, it wasn't the team performance that was the issue...it's me as a fan that is the problem here.

 

Log off mate, your having a mare here.

 

I'm happy to nip it in the bud, like (I was a while ago but you continued being abusive which makes it difficult to leave alone ). You've outlined your view and I've explained why I said what I said; I'm not being deliberately adversarial at this point. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Dokko said:

 

Spot fucking on.

Yep, bang on analysis for me 

[Jagten]

5 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

Howe has been unlucky with injuries and suspensions, there is no doubt. We banked in the summer on adding depth at fullback, making sure we had four hard working wingers who we could run into the ground, and a midfielder who could cover both #8 as well as Bruno's role (in theory). Clearly the idea was to maximise the resources, facilitated in part by actually selling our one wild card, to double down on our style of play and make sure we had the depth to push it across multiple competitions. Ultimately we have tried to reinforce what worked last year - rather than look to enhance/augment what we've got and give us something different to win games. Whether that was signing a number 10/wide attacker who can play between the lines, a designated defensive midfielder to give us more control in transition, another striker who could offer more out of possession than Wilson etc etc - these were options that were available to us and we chose not to go for.

 

I think it's not unreasonable to say at this point that it has backfired. This is partly through sheer bad luck in the case of Tonali and Barnes in particular. But our inability to change it up or find other ways to win games has made this season's crash far worse and also I'm afraid made Howe look increasingly naive. We've ran players into the ground and made injuries worse, which has increasingly made our fundsmental style of play ineffective, which has now increasingly made players devoid of confidence. Confidence that has been rattled further by crashing out of the cups and leaving the season effectively over by January. It is a vicious spiral and I think, mitigating factors accepted, Howe has to take blame and be questioned for it. Both for his input in transfer decisions (we know he will have had some) and how we have adapted this season to very different circumstances.

 

 

 

Great post. I thought, and still think, we have gone too long Howe and last season's tactical template. Ashworth probably assumes most of the responsibility here, as his job should have been to hedge this (with e.g. the profiles you mentioned). 

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

More rotation - Hall, Ritchie & Tino earlier in the season

 

A plan of attack other than the right wing overlap

 

Attempt something different when teams aren't pressing the shit out of us. Be more direct, shoot more often, I dunno, I'm not a football manager but doing the same thing over and over can't be the answer.

 

A lot of frustration comes from seemingly only having a plan A. You can't do that in the PL, losing at home to Forest, away to Bournemouth and Luton and expect absolutely zero critique.

 

FWIW I want him to be given time to sort it out.

Good post. Seemingly only having a Plan A, only willing to play 16 lads and attacking 4 comps. How was this meant to work with an injury crisis?

[Ronaldo]

10 minutes ago, LiquidAK said:

 

 

@Ronaldo here's another two from today if you want. Thought the first might be joking and then saw all his other posts this month. You could argue the latter isn't explicitly calling for his head but I think that's a pretty generous take. These takes are out there, but thankfully aren't that widespread.

 

I was hoping TWD was being Bill Murray sarcastic. 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Fwiw I still love the bloke and I fully back him

 

Not surprised some are talking about him losing the Derby and that's him done, sadly far too many people have short memories and have absolutely no patience 

 

I don't understand how people can't look at this season up to this point and not have sympathy for the injury situation or not realise what a devastating effect it has had on our season

 

Of course people can analyse formations, tactics, subs etc but I'd much rather judge those things when he has a decent set of players available to him

 

Also, I've said previously but it also seems like people have this naive expectation on what progress looks like, it isn't always linear and if you take a step back it doesn't and shouldn't mean the manager needs to be sacked

 

This season will not be as good as last season, that much is clear but I believe it could end up being a valuable season and benefit us in the long term but we need to be patient and back the manager