Eddie Howe

[GEFAFWISP]

Clueless conspiracy nonce at it again. Hi Craig ? 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, Cf said:

 

Yeah you can probably throw them in too. But then take a look at Conte he hardly set the world on fire at Spurs recently when he didn't have the elite squad. 

 

Not trying to pick a fight I just don't find people saying "Eddie howe isn't elite because he's not won anything" very helpful because I think it's more nuanced than that. 

 

If Howe isn't world class like everyone else in that list would we therefore have expected all of them to achieve what Howe did in his first two seasons? I'm not sure I would. 

Conte has also won league titles with 3 different clubs relatively recently. Even at Spurs, he qualified for CL when most thought he couldn't. And the form over his first 12 months was excellent. When he realised they couldn't win the league - he tried to get himself fired.

 

I don't think Pep Guardiola could get as many promotions into the PL as Steve Bruce. Genuinely I don't. That's a national job for a national-level manager. You judge elite performances, at the elite level IMO. I agree - most of them couldn't do what Eddie has done for us. But you become world-class at a world-class level, not the level below IMO.

[Cf]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Conte has also won league titles with 3 different clubs relatively recently. Even at Spurs, he qualified for CL when most thought he couldn't. And the form over his first 12 months was excellent. When he realised they couldn't win the league - he tried to get himself fired.

 

I don't think Pep Guardiola could get as many promotions into the PL as Steve Bruce. Genuinely I don't. That's a national job for a national-level manager. You judge elite performances, at the elite level IMO. I agree - most of them couldn't do what Eddie has done for us. But you become world-class at a world-class level, not the level below IMO.

 

Yeah that's fair. But I can't help but feel there's a certain element of it's not hard to be world class at a world class club. You can obviously fail at that level. But at the same time I suspect there's plenty of managers who'd be just as good as the ones you mention if given a chance.

 

Eddie will get his chance here over the next few years if appropriately supported.

[Matt1892]

Just now, hakka said:

 

I just want to deal in reality and facts my friend. I could sit here telling you about how if PSG could have bought Wilson for £50m and how we could have used that in some clever FFP manner, but they didn't happen, so it's all a bit silly. We have no idea at the extent of whether our owners forced ASM sale or not, or whether they were stupid not to buy Almiron or any of our deadwood in fact for a handsome fee we wouldn't normally get, but it never happened so it can't form a key part of a debate that we should of used money from a sale that wasn't on the cards.

 

PSG are not owned by the same owners as we are though so it isn’t a comparable situation, which you already know.

 

Again, there is a reason clubs were complaining to the FA about us regarding the ASM deal as reported in the Athletic, as there is a clear conflict and the ability to manipulate transfers.

[Matt1892]

11 minutes ago, hakka said:

 

They are both situations that never happened, hence why I see equivolance and pointlessness in using them to discuss possible FFP stuff.

 

I get you fully believe the ASM sale was dodgy and our owners dictating one club over there buy our player to help us, but I don't believe that is the case. Nor do I perceive it as a mistake or even an option by our owners to force a Saudi club to buy Almiron in the way you described for our FFP benefit.

One is a situation that could potentially happen which is why other clubs complained to the FA about it, whereas the other could potentially happen but would be no cause for complaint as neither party is linked.

 

The same way that a vote was held to try and stop clubs loaning players in from other clubs with the same owner, it is seen as an advantage and something that could be done.

 

We don’t know if either will happen or not but it isn’t beyond belief that it could happen, that isn’t just me believing it but other clubs too, hence why complaints and a vote took place.

[The College Dropout]

53 minutes ago, Cf said:

 

Yeah that's fair. But I can't help but feel there's a certain element of it's not hard to be world class at a world class club. You can obviously fail at that level. But at the same time I suspect there's plenty of managers who'd be just as good as the ones you mention if given a chance.

 

Eddie will get his chance here over the next few years if appropriately supported.

How come so many managers fail then?

 

Edit: at the highest level I think respect is hard earned and easily lost. And then the game moves on.  Jose Mourinho is a top 10 manager of the last 30 years. Multiple successful jobs at the elite level. Yet he’s firmly outside the elite now. Can only get a job at a non-elite Serie A club. Benitez done at the top level. Only lasted 4 months at his last elite gig. 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2024 by The College Dropout

[gjohnson]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

How come so many managers fail then?

Exactly this....plenty of world class managers fail at world class clubs. Has to be the right time and fit for both. Man U are a great example of this...

[Coffee_Johnny]

2 hours ago, thomas said:

I love him dearly and he’s really good but if Eddie is considered world class then the label has lost all meaning. 
 

 

Take your point if you equate world class with achievements to date. Clubs served, trophies won. If someone is expressing an opinion that Eddie Howe has an absolutely top drawer range of leadership and tactical attributes which put in him the upper echelons of football managers, regardless of country/league, then  I think saying  ‘he is world class’ is decent shorthand.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2024 by Coffee_Johnny

[The Butcher]

 

[Thomson Mouse]

I’m just embarrassed that the club has felt the need to come out with that statement.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

You don't think Ancelotti, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, Simeone - managers that have won multiple league titles and other Cups aren't world class?

 

Below that you have your De Zerbi's, Xabi Alonso's who seem destined to get an opportunity at one of the mega clubs sooner or later. Alonso might even do the Rafa, Mourinho, Simeone & Klopp thing of winning major titles against the establishment.

 

They might be world class managers, but we don't have a world class team yet, and might not do for another 3 years unless FFP is challenged and removed.

 

But the real point is we don't know if Howe is that world class manager elect. What if he had a world class team instead of just 3-4 genuine stars? Doesn't he deserve the chance to show what he can do?

 

 

[thomas]

3 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

They might be world class managers, but we don't have a world class team yet, and might not do for another 3 years unless FFP is challenged and removed.

 

But the real point is we don't know if Howe is that world class manager elect. What if he had a world class team instead of just 3-4 genuine stars? Doesn't he deserve the chance to show what he can do?

All I was objecting to was labeling him world class right now. He could very well go on to be such, at which point my opinion will change and everyone can tell me “we told you so!”  It was not a judgement on whether or not we should keep/sack him 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2024 by thomas

[gbandit]

Villa are over performing by a ridiculous margin 

[The College Dropout]

Justice is the wrong way to look at Xg imo. Better quality players overperform Xg and vice versa. 
 

Team with best Goalie over performs Xga is not a shocker. 

[TRon]

1 minute ago, thomas said:

All I was objecting to was labeling him world class right now. He could very well go on to be such, at which point my opinion will change and everyone can tell me “we told you so!”

 

 

 

Yeah we can't call him world class now by any stretch of the imagination. He's more the exciting new breed looking to make a name for himself - which he's done very well for two years now.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Villa are over performing by a ridiculous margin 

I was thinking about Liverpool. Didn’t even notice Villa. 

[gbandit]

Look at Brentford. Would be interested to see xG over a larger sample size in the Premier League. Say, 150 games, would tell us how impressive xG is as a genuine predictor 

[Smal]

25 minutes ago, gbandit said:

Villa are over performing by a ridiculous margin 

they have been if you go by xG difference since Emery took charge, but it’s a big enough sample size now to say their position in the league can’t be by accident. I’d be interested to see some opinions from analysts on what Villa are specifically doing to defy these metrics so consistently.

 

Man UFC are the spawniest cunts going, like. I wish Bruno Fernandes got injured for once because they might actually get relegated without him.

[Kid Icarus]

6 minutes ago, Smal said:

they have been if you go by xG difference since Emery took charge, but it’s a big enough sample size now to say their position in the league can’t be by accident. I’d be interested to see some opinions from analysts on what Villa are specifically doing to defy these metrics so consistently.

 

Man UFC are the spawniest cunts going, like. I wish Bruno Fernandes got injured for once because they might actually get relegated without him.

 

 Something we should remember about Newcastle as well. Reading loads of stuff about how we overachieved last season, or that our tactics have been found out etc. All again just ignoring the massive injured elephant in the room 

[Jagten]

48 minutes ago, Smal said:

they have been if you go by xG difference since Emery took charge, but it’s a big enough sample size now to say their position in the league can’t be by accident. I’d be interested to see some opinions from analysts on what Villa are specifically doing to defy these metrics so consistently.

 

Man UFC are the spawniest cunts going, like. I wish Bruno Fernandes got injured for once because they might actually get relegated without him.

He is clearly very good and is much better than Gerrard but even a 38-game season isn't a very big sample size statistically. Union Berlin are a great example of this, who were the underlying-numbers overachievers in Europe last year. Now things look much less great for them.

[Bellars]

The increased number of fixtures, plus having something of a target on our back, meant that this was always likely to be a "retrenching" year.

 

We've probably had the most challenging ficture list in the world (PL + CL Group of Death + Tough LC Draws), while having a terrible injury crisis and having our highest profile summer signing banned.

 

Getting into the Europa league was my expectation for this season. That is still very possible, especially as the fixture list lightens up and injured players return.

 

Given all that I think Eddie has done a fine job.

 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 hours ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

Take your point if you equate world class with achievements to date. Clubs served, trophies won. If someone is expressing an opinion that Eddie Howe has an absolutely top drawer range of leadership and tactical attributes which put in him the upper echelons of football managers, regardless of country/league, then  I think saying  ‘he is world class’ is decent shorthand.

 

 

 

Howe isn’t there yet on the tactics attributes etc either.  That doesn’t mean he won’t get there, but I don’t think it’s arguable that his tactical shortcomings have been exposed somewhat - he’s ploughed on with the same playing styles irrespective of injuries, fixture congestion, and opponents.

 

If past experience is owt to go by, I’m sure he’ll be back to the drawing board when the season ends. 

[Tonalis Bookie]

On 02/01/2024 at 18:01, Doc said:

It would surely be easier for you to say what your old log in was than having Sifu vouch for you, I'm sure other posters will remember it.

Unless of course, you don't have one that is.

 

happy to satisfy the masses - Dazzanufc1892 

[brummie]

2 hours ago, Smal said:

they have been if you go by xG difference since Emery took charge, but it’s a big enough sample size now to say their position in the league can’t be by accident. I’d be interested to see some opinions from analysts on what Villa are specifically doing to defy these metrics so consistently.

 

Like you've said, over a calendar year, we're second in the league. That's a long period of time to be consistent over.

 

To paraphrase some golf player (Gary Player, maybe), "it's funny, the more we practice, the luckier we get"

[NWMag]

3 hours ago, Thomson Mouse said:

I’m just embarrassed that the club has felt the need to come out with that statement.

What statement?