Eddie Howe

[Kanji]

Howe has mentioned he prefers and wants a DOF. He also didn't particularly enjoy doing the job of manager + DOF his first season but got on with it and did what needed to be done.

[timeEd32]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

From all that you would have thought Howe would have loved having a DOF on board so he would have all the foreign based stats available to him. Maybe he does, all this is just being generated off a terrible transfer window which no one is taking responsibility for, and we are assuming they have fallen out, whereas it might just be a case of getting aligned.

 

Personally I do think we need someone like Mitchell in who will take charge of recruitment. There's been one terrible window, but I would like to think that was to do with the timing, and we were pursuing targets already in place. In future windows I would expect Mitchell to be bringing a lot more to the table.

 

It was always going to be a challenging window with us wanting to sell players that are the wrong age and not having a ton of financial flexibility. The way we went about it (or at least the way it was reported) and the public bickering has made it worse.

 

The off-the-pitch circus and lackluster performances have led to many feeling like it's all doom and gloom. But we have 10 points on the board and mostly play the good teams at home and the weaker teams away in the first half. If Eddie and staff can get our best players performing and find the right system(s) there's no reason we can't get to January in a good place, possibly still in the LC, and with some money to spend with Mitchell having been in the role for 6 months.

 

I posted in some other thread that more than half of Brighton's transfer business in the last few years has been done in January and June. PSR and the like have created buying opportunities for those in positions of strength. 

 

But Eddie has to get us back to playing our best. Whether he gets along with Mitchell or not will be irrelevant if he doesn't.

[andycap]

It seems odd to me that players signed under ashworth tonali Hall tino Barnes seem to be bench material as far as howe is concerned. 

Last year barely any of them played much and if they did they would be subbed. This year is the same it's like he's not happy playing them because they weren't his signings. 

The tonali situation is baffling he plays Willock then at the end of the game says he wasn't ready to play yet. 

[Kanji]

He's talked at length about data analytics on the playing side (hence the folks he's brought in, the one who left for Liverpool, etc.). Maybe that doesn't exist at the recruitment level and that would be something Ashworth would needed to answer for. Nickson as chief scout used whatever the fuck he was doing but seemed to have had quite the laundry list of talented players he scouted for us that we did/didn't get over his time here. 

[Kanji]

Just now, andycap said:

It seems odd to me that players signed under ashworth tonali Hall tino Barnes seem to be bench material as far as howe is concerned. 

Last year barely any of them played much and if they did they would be subbed. This year is the same it's like he's not happy playing them because they weren't his signings. 

The tonali situation is baffling he plays Willock then at the end of the game says he wasn't ready to play yet. 

 

Mate, all do respect, Tonali was a signing Howe 100% pushed for - he's said it many times over. He said he "fell in love" with the player during the Milan CL campaign before we signed him. 

[GEFAFWISP]

19 minutes ago, Upthemags said:

The drive to turn Mitchell into a super villain is one of the stranger impulses I've seen on here.

Spoken like an agent of his.

[andycap]

Just now, Kanji said:

 

Mate, all do respect, Tonali was a signing Howe 100% pushed for - he's said it many times over. He said he "fell in love" with the player during the Milan CL campaign before we signed him. 

You wouldn't think it mate. 

[HaydnNUFC]

34 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

The players we have have played far, far better though.

 

I remember after Christmas in the 4th season, where we looked like we'd been sussed, only to go on another run and we were in the CL. Small tweaks can make a massive difference and the way Howe has chopped and changed the starting XI shows he's still trying to find something that works.

 

He did the same in his first season, where he couldn't buy a point until we suddenly had one of the best defences in the league.

 

 

 

 

I know. That's the point I made earlier;

 

2 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Maybe, but under Howe in the past there were always green shoots that I was able to see when it got somewhat tough;

- When he first come in and didn't win in the first 10 games, I saw clear improvements tactically. Some of our fans got jittery about Howe after Watford scored that late equaliser at SJP, but I could see all we needed was to sign a CB and CM to execute what Howe was trying to do. We got those in, and were in top 4 form for the rest of the season.

 

- When the goals started to dry up January - February 2023. All he had to do was drop Wilson and bring in Isak. We did and never looked back.

 

- Last season everyone put down to injuries, fair enough.

 

But in terms of away performances that stem back over a year (plus what we've seen generally this season tbh) I see absolutely nothing that suggests we're going to improve or going to arrest this spiral of poor showings. 

 

 

Those tweaks were in personnel in the January window and through bringing Isak in and we have no transfer window and no personnel now outside of Botman that can come and improve the starting XI, and Botman's showings before his ACL in the New Year left a lot to be desired.

 

He's not changed system or style for 2 years, and I don't expect him to. And keeping my fingers crossed that we're just going to start playing well again despite us being poor every match, and in nigh on every away match for over a year, is just blind faith to me.

[andycap]

1 minute ago, Kanji said:

 

Mate, all do respect, Tonali was a signing Howe 100% pushed for - he's said it many times over. He said he "fell in love" with the player during the Milan CL campaign before we signed him. 

Howe has also said he knew nothing about Barnes signing even though he'd had all his photos taken and interview wrapped up. 😂 

[Theregulars]

15 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

Mate, all do respect, Tonali was a signing Howe 100% pushed for - he's said it many times over. He said he "fell in love" with the player during the Milan CL campaign before we signed him. 

Calling Tino a benchwarmer after 4/6 starts this season also another good wheeze 

[Hanshithispantz]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

I know. That's the point I made earlier;

 

 

Those tweaks were in personnel in the January window and through bringing Isak in and we have no transfer window and no personnel now outside of Botman that can come and improve the starting XI, and Botman's showings before his ACL in the New Year left a lot to be desired.

 

He's not changed system or style for 2 years, and I don't expect him to. And keeping my fingers crossed that we're just going to start playing well again despite us being poor every match, and in nigh on every away match for over a year, is just blind faith to me.

Missed that post, sorry 

 

Fatigue and injuries was obviously a massive factor last season, I don't think it's fair to assume our away form will continue like it has with a fit squad. Despite playing shite we've won 2, drew 1, lost 1 away so far. Not a chance that happens blowing out of our arse from the 70th minute.

 

I would assume we'll sort our press out and form will improve, I don't think that's blind faith.

[The College Dropout]

30 minutes ago, Terrymac1966 said:

A man proven at unearthing cheap talent on lower wages is banging heads with someone who wants the opposite. Something has to give....

That’s the fault of Eales and co. not communicating with Howe. 
 

Also we can’t demand Europe then give him talent that needs to be developed. Our first choice full backs need development. Our star CM needs to bed into the team. 

[HaydnNUFC]

2 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Missed that post, sorry 

 

Fatigue and injuries was obviously a massive factor last season, I don't think it's fair to assume our away form will continue like it has with a fit squad. Despite playing shite we've won 2, drew 1, lost 1 away so far. Not a chance that happens blowing out of our arse from the 70th minute.

 

I would assume we'll sort our press out and form will improve, I don't think that's blind faith.

 

We've only gotten those league results due to luck (Bournemouth) or flashes of individual brilliance (Wolves). At Forest against pretty much their second string with almost our full strength side out, our first touch in their box in the 2nd half was in the 72nd minute. Fulham bullied us and could've been 4 up at HT. All of these sides will likely finish bottom half.

 

I've just seen absolutely nothing to suggest it won't continue, other than hoping it doesn't and law of averages. It's the same set up and same total lack of a semblance of a tactical plan every match. What were we trying to do in the first half yesterday? What was the game plan? At Wolves? At Bournemouth? We have zero identity at the minute and I don't have faith that we'll change that. I hope to dear fucking God I'm wrong. But I've had an ominous feeling about this whole situation since the Bournemouth game.

[Theregulars]

11 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

We've only gotten those league results due to luck (Bournemouth) or flashes of individual brilliance (Wolves). At Forest against pretty much their second string with almost our full strength side out, our first touch in their box in the 2nd half was in the 72nd minute. Fulham bullied us and could've been 4 up at HT. All of these sides will likely finish bottom half.

 

I've just seen absolutely nothing to suggest it won't continue, other than hoping it doesn't and law of averages. It's the same set up and same total lack of a semblance of a tactical plan every match. What were we trying to do in the first half yesterday? What was the game plan? At Wolves? At Bournemouth? We have zero identity at the minute and I don't have faith that we'll change that. I hope to dear fucking God I'm wrong. But I've had an ominous feeling about this whole situation since the Bournemouth game.

I think the Fulham experience was more nuanced. They did play through us with alarming ease for about 30 mins, but pope fumbles the second. If barnes doesn’t miss the good chance for 2-2 shortly after his goal, or schär does the right thing for an easy tap-in…. Third due to ridiculous circumstantial behaviour by Bruno. A defeat was a fair result but it was very, very close to 2-2 twice.

[HaydnNUFC]

Just now, Theregulars said:

I think the Fulham experience was more nuanced. They did play through us with alarming ease for about 30 mins, but pope fumbles the second. If barnes doesn’t miss the good chance for 2-2 shortly after his goal, or schär does the right thing for an easy tap-in…. Third due to ridiculous circumstantial behaviour by Bruno. A defeat was a fair result but it was very, very close to 2-2 twice.

 

We shouldn't have to be constantly chasing games though. What was the plan from the off? How were we set up tactically, different from the previous 2 away league games to enable us to not have to chase the game? 

[Theregulars]

2 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

We shouldn't have to be constantly chasing games though. What was the plan from the off? How were we set up tactically, different from the previous 2 away league games to enable us to not have to chase the game? 

No, completely agree. Was a 4-3-3 then a 4-2-3-1 from half time. Plan to me seemed to slowly move the back line and midfield up with easy possession, then pen Fulham in, but they kept playing around our press. Their midfield all played well and they knocked it around us quickly with ease at times (especially in the first half, not so much the second).  Weirdly in the first half they always seemed to have a body extra in midfield, but not so much in the second despite us taking one off.

 

To be clear I thought it was a poor performance overall, and you’re right re: chasing games. I didn’t think it was a disaster, sometimes away games do just go that way.

[HaydnNUFC]

Just now, Theregulars said:

No, completely agree. Was a 4-3-3 then a 4-2-3-1 from half time. Plan to me seemed to slowly move the back line and midfield up with easy possession, then pen Fulham in, but they kept playing around our press. Their midfield all played well and they knocked it around us quickly with ease at times (especially in the first half, not so much the second).  Weirdly in the first half they always seemed to have a body extra in midfield, but not so much in the second despite us taking one off.

 

To be clear I thought it was a poor performance overall, and you’re right re: chasing games. I didn’t think it was a disaster, sometimes away games do just go that way.

 

They've been going that way often, and for far too long. And I just don't think Howe has the answers for it. He hasn't for over a year.

[bobbydazzla]

I liked it so much in 22/23 when we had a mean defence and hardly let in any goals

 

It was so unlike NUFC, I thought Howe had taken us down an entirely new and exciting path and quite frankly, it made my willy tingle

 

Last season and so far this season we're back to the age-old tried and tested NUFC, that leaky defence that I've known all my life. No willy tingles for me any more

 

 

 

 

Edited September 23 by bobbydazzla

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Upthemags said:

The drive to turn Mitchell into a super villain is one of the stranger impulses I've seen on here.

 

Have to agree. This was a much sought after DOF from what I was led to believe, but because there's this narrative that he's at odds with Howe, he's catching shit, because Eddie has earned legend status in his time here. It's understandable, but not sure it's good for us long term.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Kanji said:

Howe has mentioned he prefers and wants a DOF. He also didn't particularly enjoy doing the job of manager + DOF his first season but got on with it and did what needed to be done.

Yeh but he wants a DOF to get him British based players in the main.  
 

TBF Freedman has done that at Palace. But again - those signings need time to develop.  
 

Targeting Europe makes it difficult to prioritise player development.  

 

 

Edited September 23 by The College Dropout

[Kanji]

41 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Yeh but he wants a DOF to get him British based players in the main.  
 

TBF Freedman has done that at Palace. But again - those signings need time to develop.  
 

Targeting Europe makes it difficult to prioritise player development.  

 

 

 

 

23 signings under his tenure from  November 2021 -- 8 from abroad, 15 domestic.  So yeah, has preferred I guess - the top 5 signings 3 of 5 were abroad (in terms of fee) and out of the top 10, 4 of those 10 were abroad. Wondering if there were that fell and didn't happen that we desperately wanted that forced us to go domestic. 

 

Might have been you, but it seems like the club's goal is to be in europe every year and push for a cup run; perhaps Howe doesn't feel like he has the time to gamble and goes for what works for him. We have a healthy mix of British and abroad players in the spine of our team (when fully fit).  Schar, Botman, Tonali, Bruno, JL, Isak. 

 

 

Edited September 23 by Kanji

[KaKa]

1 hour ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Honestly mostly of your complaints seem like they could be leveled at some combination of PIF, Staveley, Eales, and Ashworth (as well as Howe), but you've just decided that every bad thing is the fault of the manager (ahem, head coach - another sign he knew from the beginning he wouldn't be all-powerful) despite singing his praises for 2+ years.

 

When we hired Howe, the Bournemouth fan on here mentioned that he'd be interested to see how it played out, because Howe liked control over everything, and he actually left Bournemouth because the club wanted to change some things as far as how things functioned behind the scenes.

 

We have since heard there was tension between Howe and Ashworth. This was only reported after the debacle with Man Utd broke, and I wasn't having it at the time (however, it had to be revisited with all that emerged since then, and with what the Bournemouth fan said when Howe first joined).

 

The next thing we know Amanda and Mehrdad were out, with reports that they were 'getting in the way' of things being taken forward at the club. Apparently this was what the CEO Eales shared with PIF. This was when I looked a bit more into what the issue with Ashworth was, and it was stated that Howe was working closely with Amanda and Mehrdad and had marginalised Ashworth.

 

Before that had all settled down fully, we then finally bring in Mitchell, with reports early on that Howe was annoyed he wasn't consulted or told about it. Then came his interview that he needed to be allowed to work as he had been, this prior to even meeting with Mitchell to hash all that out. 

 

We then got the interview from Eales where he spoke of wanting Howe to focus on things on the pitch, rightfully so as the head coach, and that left to Howe he would spend all his time on a lot of other stuff, as I presume he had been doing previously, all stemming from the original period with just Amanda and Mehrdad.

 

Since then we have had an interview from Mitchell that mostly praised Howe's work and style of football, but once again reiterated a desire for Howe to focus on the head coach role, again, as should be the case.

 

Ever since then it's been reports of problems between Howe and Mitchell.

 

From my perspective it appears Howe has not been able to adjust to the introduction of a DOF.

 

Ashworth came from a club that has the best data model going, and specialised in signing players from undervalued markets, especially South America. Why was he not able to implement any of that with us? I doubt he would have been able to if there was conflict behind the scenes. Seems to me he instead opted for an exit.

 

And so all that to let you know how and why I ended up with my view on things.

 

[Mahoneys Tache]

All of this speculation makes as much sense as 12th century theologians arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. All you’ve got to go on is inferences from press conferences and click bait from journalists. Simmer doon. 

[Memphis]

In all three away matches this year, we've trailed at the half. We have not scored a goal in the first half away from home. We have the third-worst xG differential (-0.61), behind only Brentford and Ipswich Town. We have only won the xG battle once all season, and that was against Wolves...barely. We have the third-fewest touches in the opponent penalty area while allowing the second-most touches in the penalty area.

 

In spite of that, we have only lost once - and yeah, we perhaps could have snatched a point against Fulham. 

 

But the underlying numbers are telling the story of a team that isn't creating enough good chances, isn't stopping opponents from creating enough good chances, and has relied on luck, goalkeeping, and blockbuster goals outside the box to win matches. That cannot be sustained. So now the onus is on Howe to make some significant changes. No one should be safe from being dropped. We have used the fewest number of players in the PL this year (19 total); whether we have enough depth to play more is debatable but we already have a midfield that looks tired. I have backed and will continue to back Howe, I think he's a brilliant manager and has been a huge blessing to the club. Still, there are enough significant warning signs that some major changes are needed before our form takes a huge dip. 

[KaKa]

3 hours ago, SUPERTOON said:

Are people now in acceptance that the club/Howe target PL players over foreign based options? Quite a few on here have said that for a while and been slated for it.

 

Like @The College Dropout said in response, it has seemed to be veering more and more towards that. And so I think they may indeed have had that right.

 

I think Nickson had a bit more influence early doors, with Howe having been out of management for a little bit.

 

I recall Nickson getting mentioned regarding having watched Bruno even when he was in Brazil. He was also given credit for having had a lot of information on Botman who he had been following.