triggs Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Xabi Alonso was a much better footballer better than Mr Liverpool and, from what I could see, that was the problem. Mr Liverpool didn't like being the second biggest fish. This is just a lie. They got on really well and Gerrard was devastated that he left and called him one of the best players in the world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I'm surprised Rafa didn't say it was a complete fuck up. Selling Salah and De Bruyne when you don’t have to sell to buy is a mess up(Mourinho) Selling Alonso because you have to sell to buy isn’t. He didn’t have the luxury of Abramovich as owner. Poor Rafa, maybe he shouldn't have bought so much absolute garbage at Liverpool then with his extremely limited funds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Another busy day of rumours then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I'm surprised Rafa didn't say it was a complete fuck up. Selling Salah and De Bruyne when you don’t have to sell to buy is a mess up(Mourinho) Selling Alonso because you have to sell to buy isn’t. He didn’t have the luxury of Abramovich as owner. Poor Rafa, maybe he shouldn't have bought so much absolute garbage at Liverpool then with his extremely limited funds. Some absolute outstanding buys Reina, Mascherano, Xabi Alonso, Sterling, Luis García, Kuyt, Torres Alex Ferguson has a similar transfer record you judge them on what they win and how good a team they build which they both did so you can’t knock their signings if they build great sides. Turned them into Champions League and FA Cup winners and Title challengers going a season only losing 1 game that’s what building a good team looks like. You can’t do that if you’re just absolute garbage in the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Rafa Benitez’s squad building success at Napoli Signed Mertens for just £8m went onto score 100+ goals for Napoli Signed Koulibaly for just £7m now worth £100million Signed Jorginho for just £6m went onto be sold for big profit £55million Garbage in the market though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I mean it works both ways. The bloke signed Koulibaly and Jorginho, but also signed Matz Sels and Achraf Lazaar. You can do this with literally any manager in the world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Pretty sure I said he bought a lot of garbage as a Liverpool manager, not that Rafa is absolute garbage in the market. Josemi Nunez Morientes Zenden Sissoko Crouch Gonzalez Kromkamp Paletta Aurelio Pennant Voronin Babel Insua Dossena Keane Riera Johnson Aquilani Just some of his misses for Liverpool. No one is saying that Rafa isn't a great manager but it's hilarious how you think he has never in his career made a mistake which selling Xabi Alonso clearly was when he tried to replace him with £18m Alberto Aquilani. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Pata[/member] Alex Ferguson had a similar transfer record you judge them on what they win and how good a team they build which they both did so you can’t knock their signings if they build great sides. Rafa Benitez turned them into Champions League and FA Cup winners and Title challengers going a season only losing 1 game, that’s what building a good team looks like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Bébé Massimo Taibi David Bellion Dong Fangzhou Eric Djemba-Djemba Gabriel Obertan Kléberson Manucho Fortune Forlán Must mean Alex Ferguson is garbage at buying playing and building sides. Anyone want to do a Mourinho or Wenger list they’ve all got a list like that. Fancy that.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdm Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 This is dull Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 This is dull Football is dull, it’s the same regurgitated conversations year after year by fans, media, anyone involved. Pretty much come to the conclusion that it’s a shit sport with even worse coverage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 This is dull Football is dull, it’s the same regurgitated conversations year after year by fans, media, anyone involved. Pretty much come to the conclusion that it’s a shit sport with even worse coverage. It was once a great sport, ruined by coverage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Oh ffs I have no interest in keeping this going. If you really think selling Xabi Alonso (who apparently wanted to stay and was under contract for 3? years) was a Rafa masterclass on how to operate in the transfer market, I don't know what else I could say. And once again, I have never said Rafa isn't a great manager but you can't just rule out all his mistakes as bad scout advice or being forced to do something stupid. Just to be sure, imo Rafa is a great manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Aquilani was a good footballer tbh, just a crock Yeah, pretty similar case to what Viana was for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 We used Viana as Robert's fill in when he was a central player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 The strength with Rafa in the transfer market even when he does buy duds, is he’s excellent at improving even poor players’ games and I’d trust Rafa all the way with money buying players. Barry replacing Xabi would have been a downgrade of course, but wouldn’t have weakened Liverpool much if it all. Again Barry was underrated IMO and Rafa would have helped his game a lot. He transformed Gerrard and Torres isn’t world-class players, Bellamy and Carragher’s games come on massively under Rafa and so did Crouch. Another strength with Rafa is he buys players for the right reasons, players identified to add to the team be it positionally, for extra depth or to develop into better players or players signed to improve the first-team in bigger ways. The more money he has to spend, the level of his success with a player and indeed their own grows massively as he’s proved and rarely has he signed a player and that player turned out to be a waste of money. Every signing he made for Newcastle even dross like Joselu, gave just about enough to be considered good value. The total opposite of how the club’s own signings often end up working out and even the players that do work out individually, it’s never ever for the good of the team itself or about that. There is no point signing the likes of Cabaye or HBA for a team managed by Pardew. Conversely there is no point spending 2m on Kraft for a team managed by Bruce. Every signing in terms of what value or not they represent all amounts to the sum total of fuck all when the only value of NUFC as a team is keeping its status of a Premier League team, nothing more. With what Rafa had to spend, I don’t think he could have bought anyone else than he did and achieved what he did or achieved more. He might be used to winning trophies and managing big ambitious clubs and coaching top players, but what he achieved here for me stood out as a job he not only overachieved, but succeeded where no-one other than him would have. Bruce May keep us up this season, but he will take us down eventually and along the way the actual team itself, will suffer the most as good players become not so good players, promising players don’t become better players and players that do good get sold or agitate for a move. Rinse and repeat. Under Rafa I sighed watching Joselu, but give me that over sighing watching the likes of Cabaye, Ba, Remy and HBA under Pardew. And I sigh even more that Rafa, a world-class manager, a world-class coach, an astute scout, with more number 1 hits in the transfer market than flops, was never allowed, in fact was actually and purposely prevented, from the one and only thing that value for money, money well spent, money not wasted, can only be measured by and that’s out on the pitch in what the team does, how it plays, performs and just how well they are doing or not and under Rafa we were doing fucking great, Championship Champions, top ten, 13th, constantly improving. I see no improvement whatsoever under Bruce in any area and not one player has improved. The only two to have consistently looked good are the ‘keeper and our little Mexican friend, but they haven’t improved their game, they are just performing well enough the most every week. But not where they are playing at the top of their game at max levels. Longstaff senior has regressed massively, if he was breaking through now I’d think more Colback level than Carrick. Shelvey hasn’t improved, don’t let a few goals fool you. The defence hasn’t improved. The attack hasn’t, possession. Don’t let a few extra points more at this point if the season than at the same point last season fool you either. I’ve watched enough of us now this last few months under Bruce and I’m starting to believe we play worse now collectively on and off the ball than we did at our worse under Pardew or Carver and the worrying thing is, this is Bruce apparently doing a good job, a much better job than Rafa lots of idiots would have everyone believing. It’s only going to get worse and messy again. If I’m Longstaff, both boys, I’d not be signing any new deals. I’d want the fuck away. If I’m Joelinton shit or not I’d be looking for ways out and put it all down to a mistake. If I’m Dubravka and Miggy I’d be thinking fucking hell, I perfom week in week out and for what? If I’m a Carroll though I’d be happy just to be here getting paid to cheerlead the crowd, Shelvey to play and not to prove anything every week or Ritchie who as long as I give 100% what more can be expected of me. And if I’m Bruce I’m well, just happy to have a job managing in the Premier League. If I’m Ashley I’m happy happy happy with 17th. If I’m a supporter though? How on earth can anyone be happy watching this shit I do not know. This that are have no real right to complain really and those that snapped up free season tickets, kudos on valuing your own club even less than Ashley does, zero. That’s the current value for money watching NUFC now represents. Only if the owner pays you to go. And yet it’s your team, your club, that will eventually pay for it the most and suffer the real costs. Sorry, but if your club truly meant something to you, you’d never be happy with this imposter of a NUFC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 And with that, we return to current NUFC transfers. Any more Rafa talk will be done in the correct thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 The strength with Rafa in the transfer market even when he does buy duds, is he’s excellent at improving even poor players’ games and I’d trust Rafa all the way with money buying players. Barry replacing Xabi would have been a downgrade of course, but wouldn’t have weakened Liverpool much if it all. Again Barry was underrated IMO and Rafa would have helped his game a lot. He transformed Gerrard and Torres isn’t world-class players, Bellamy and Carragher’s games come on massively under Rafa and so did Crouch. Another strength with Rafa is he buys players for the right reasons, players identified to add to the team be it positionally, for extra depth or to develop into better players or players signed to improve the first-team in bigger ways. The more money he has to spend, the level of his success with a player and indeed their own grows massively as he’s proved and rarely has he signed a player and that player turned out to be a waste of money. Every signing he made for Newcastle even dross like Joselu, gave just about enough to be considered good value. The total opposite of how the club’s own signings often end up working out and even the players that do work out individually, it’s never ever for the good of the team itself or about that. There is no point signing the likes of Cabaye or HBA for a team managed by Pardew. Conversely there is no point spending 2m on Kraft for a team managed by Bruce. Every signing in terms of what value or not they represent all amounts to the sum total of fuck all when the only value of NUFC as a team is keeping its status of a Premier League team, nothing more. With what Rafa had to spend, I don’t think he could have bought anyone else than he did and achieved what he did or achieved more. He might be used to winning trophies and managing big ambitious clubs and coaching top players, but what he achieved here for me stood out as a job he not only overachieved, but succeeded where no-one other than him would have. Bruce May keep us up this season, but he will take us down eventually and along the way the actual team itself, will suffer the most as good players become not so good players, promising players don’t become better players and players that do good get sold or agitate for a move. Rinse and repeat. Under Rafa I sighed watching Joselu, but give me that over sighing watching the likes of Cabaye, Ba, Remy and HBA under Pardew. And I sigh even more that Rafa, a world-class manager, a world-class coach, an astute scout, with more number 1 hits in the transfer market than flops, was never allowed, in fact was actually and purposely prevented, from the one and only thing that value for money, money well spent, money not wasted, can only be measured by and that’s out on the pitch in what the team does, how it plays, performs and just how well they are doing or not and under Rafa we were doing fucking great, Championship Champions, top ten, 13th, constantly improving. I see no improvement whatsoever under Bruce in any area and not one player has improved. The only two to have consistently looked good are the ‘keeper and our little Mexican friend, but they haven’t improved their game, they are just performing well enough the most every week. But not where they are playing at the top of their game at max levels. Longstaff senior has regressed massively, if he was breaking through now I’d think more Colback level than Carrick. Shelvey hasn’t improved, don’t let a few goals fool you. The defence hasn’t improved. The attack hasn’t, possession. Don’t let a few extra points more at this point if the season than at the same point last season fool you either. I’ve watched enough of us now this last few months under Bruce and I’m starting to believe we play worse now collectively on and off the ball than we did at our worse under Pardew or Carver and the worrying thing is, this is Bruce apparently doing a good job, a much better job than Rafa lots of idiots would have everyone believing. It’s only going to get worse and messy again. If I’m Longstaff, both boys, I’d not be signing any new deals. I’d want the fuck away. If I’m Joelinton shit or not I’d be looking for ways out and put it all down to a mistake. If I’m Dubravka and Miggy I’d be thinking fucking hell, I perfom week in week out and for what? If I’m a Carroll though I’d be happy just to be here getting paid to cheerlead the crowd, Shelvey to play and not to prove anything every week or Ritchie who as long as I give 100% what more can be expected of me. And if I’m Bruce I’m well, just happy to have a job managing in the Premier League. If I’m Ashley I’m happy happy happy with 17th. If I’m a supporter though? How on earth can anyone be happy watching this shit I do not know. This that are have no real right to complain really and those that snapped up free season tickets, kudos on valuing your own club even less than Ashley does, zero. That’s the current value for money watching NUFC now represents. Only if the owner pays you to go. And yet it’s your team, your club, that will eventually pay for it the most and suffer the real costs. Sorry, but if your club truly meant something to you, you’d never be happy with this imposter of a NUFC. That’s a great post HTT, especially the second part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It was a good read, and he never mentioned Mexicans once. ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Totally agree with that, Rafa's transfers record was a lot like Bobby's it always amazed me that Bobby made so many amazing signings for a bloke that was supposedly out of touch with modern football Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It was a good read, and he never mentioned Mexicans once. ? He did mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It was a good read, and he never mentioned Mexicans once. ? He did mind He ,mentioned a Mexican, twice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 He’s not going anywhere then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 We demand over the top, yet we won't even offer the going price Ashley's United is shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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