Elliottman Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 This is dull Football is dull, it’s the same regurgitated conversations year after year by fans, media, anyone involved. Pretty much come to the conclusion that it’s a shit sport with even worse coverage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 This is dull Football is dull, it’s the same regurgitated conversations year after year by fans, media, anyone involved. Pretty much come to the conclusion that it’s a shit sport with even worse coverage. It was once a great sport, ruined by coverage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Oh ffs I have no interest in keeping this going. If you really think selling Xabi Alonso (who apparently wanted to stay and was under contract for 3? years) was a Rafa masterclass on how to operate in the transfer market, I don't know what else I could say. And once again, I have never said Rafa isn't a great manager but you can't just rule out all his mistakes as bad scout advice or being forced to do something stupid. Just to be sure, imo Rafa is a great manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Aquilani was a good footballer tbh, just a crock Yeah, pretty similar case to what Viana was for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 We used Viana as Robert's fill in when he was a central player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 The strength with Rafa in the transfer market even when he does buy duds, is he’s excellent at improving even poor players’ games and I’d trust Rafa all the way with money buying players. Barry replacing Xabi would have been a downgrade of course, but wouldn’t have weakened Liverpool much if it all. Again Barry was underrated IMO and Rafa would have helped his game a lot. He transformed Gerrard and Torres isn’t world-class players, Bellamy and Carragher’s games come on massively under Rafa and so did Crouch. Another strength with Rafa is he buys players for the right reasons, players identified to add to the team be it positionally, for extra depth or to develop into better players or players signed to improve the first-team in bigger ways. The more money he has to spend, the level of his success with a player and indeed their own grows massively as he’s proved and rarely has he signed a player and that player turned out to be a waste of money. Every signing he made for Newcastle even dross like Joselu, gave just about enough to be considered good value. The total opposite of how the club’s own signings often end up working out and even the players that do work out individually, it’s never ever for the good of the team itself or about that. There is no point signing the likes of Cabaye or HBA for a team managed by Pardew. Conversely there is no point spending 2m on Kraft for a team managed by Bruce. Every signing in terms of what value or not they represent all amounts to the sum total of fuck all when the only value of NUFC as a team is keeping its status of a Premier League team, nothing more. With what Rafa had to spend, I don’t think he could have bought anyone else than he did and achieved what he did or achieved more. He might be used to winning trophies and managing big ambitious clubs and coaching top players, but what he achieved here for me stood out as a job he not only overachieved, but succeeded where no-one other than him would have. Bruce May keep us up this season, but he will take us down eventually and along the way the actual team itself, will suffer the most as good players become not so good players, promising players don’t become better players and players that do good get sold or agitate for a move. Rinse and repeat. Under Rafa I sighed watching Joselu, but give me that over sighing watching the likes of Cabaye, Ba, Remy and HBA under Pardew. And I sigh even more that Rafa, a world-class manager, a world-class coach, an astute scout, with more number 1 hits in the transfer market than flops, was never allowed, in fact was actually and purposely prevented, from the one and only thing that value for money, money well spent, money not wasted, can only be measured by and that’s out on the pitch in what the team does, how it plays, performs and just how well they are doing or not and under Rafa we were doing fucking great, Championship Champions, top ten, 13th, constantly improving. I see no improvement whatsoever under Bruce in any area and not one player has improved. The only two to have consistently looked good are the ‘keeper and our little Mexican friend, but they haven’t improved their game, they are just performing well enough the most every week. But not where they are playing at the top of their game at max levels. Longstaff senior has regressed massively, if he was breaking through now I’d think more Colback level than Carrick. Shelvey hasn’t improved, don’t let a few goals fool you. The defence hasn’t improved. The attack hasn’t, possession. Don’t let a few extra points more at this point if the season than at the same point last season fool you either. I’ve watched enough of us now this last few months under Bruce and I’m starting to believe we play worse now collectively on and off the ball than we did at our worse under Pardew or Carver and the worrying thing is, this is Bruce apparently doing a good job, a much better job than Rafa lots of idiots would have everyone believing. It’s only going to get worse and messy again. If I’m Longstaff, both boys, I’d not be signing any new deals. I’d want the fuck away. If I’m Joelinton shit or not I’d be looking for ways out and put it all down to a mistake. If I’m Dubravka and Miggy I’d be thinking fucking hell, I perfom week in week out and for what? If I’m a Carroll though I’d be happy just to be here getting paid to cheerlead the crowd, Shelvey to play and not to prove anything every week or Ritchie who as long as I give 100% what more can be expected of me. And if I’m Bruce I’m well, just happy to have a job managing in the Premier League. If I’m Ashley I’m happy happy happy with 17th. If I’m a supporter though? How on earth can anyone be happy watching this shit I do not know. This that are have no real right to complain really and those that snapped up free season tickets, kudos on valuing your own club even less than Ashley does, zero. That’s the current value for money watching NUFC now represents. Only if the owner pays you to go. And yet it’s your team, your club, that will eventually pay for it the most and suffer the real costs. Sorry, but if your club truly meant something to you, you’d never be happy with this imposter of a NUFC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 And with that, we return to current NUFC transfers. Any more Rafa talk will be done in the correct thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 The strength with Rafa in the transfer market even when he does buy duds, is he’s excellent at improving even poor players’ games and I’d trust Rafa all the way with money buying players. Barry replacing Xabi would have been a downgrade of course, but wouldn’t have weakened Liverpool much if it all. Again Barry was underrated IMO and Rafa would have helped his game a lot. He transformed Gerrard and Torres isn’t world-class players, Bellamy and Carragher’s games come on massively under Rafa and so did Crouch. Another strength with Rafa is he buys players for the right reasons, players identified to add to the team be it positionally, for extra depth or to develop into better players or players signed to improve the first-team in bigger ways. The more money he has to spend, the level of his success with a player and indeed their own grows massively as he’s proved and rarely has he signed a player and that player turned out to be a waste of money. Every signing he made for Newcastle even dross like Joselu, gave just about enough to be considered good value. The total opposite of how the club’s own signings often end up working out and even the players that do work out individually, it’s never ever for the good of the team itself or about that. There is no point signing the likes of Cabaye or HBA for a team managed by Pardew. Conversely there is no point spending 2m on Kraft for a team managed by Bruce. Every signing in terms of what value or not they represent all amounts to the sum total of fuck all when the only value of NUFC as a team is keeping its status of a Premier League team, nothing more. With what Rafa had to spend, I don’t think he could have bought anyone else than he did and achieved what he did or achieved more. He might be used to winning trophies and managing big ambitious clubs and coaching top players, but what he achieved here for me stood out as a job he not only overachieved, but succeeded where no-one other than him would have. Bruce May keep us up this season, but he will take us down eventually and along the way the actual team itself, will suffer the most as good players become not so good players, promising players don’t become better players and players that do good get sold or agitate for a move. Rinse and repeat. Under Rafa I sighed watching Joselu, but give me that over sighing watching the likes of Cabaye, Ba, Remy and HBA under Pardew. And I sigh even more that Rafa, a world-class manager, a world-class coach, an astute scout, with more number 1 hits in the transfer market than flops, was never allowed, in fact was actually and purposely prevented, from the one and only thing that value for money, money well spent, money not wasted, can only be measured by and that’s out on the pitch in what the team does, how it plays, performs and just how well they are doing or not and under Rafa we were doing fucking great, Championship Champions, top ten, 13th, constantly improving. I see no improvement whatsoever under Bruce in any area and not one player has improved. The only two to have consistently looked good are the ‘keeper and our little Mexican friend, but they haven’t improved their game, they are just performing well enough the most every week. But not where they are playing at the top of their game at max levels. Longstaff senior has regressed massively, if he was breaking through now I’d think more Colback level than Carrick. Shelvey hasn’t improved, don’t let a few goals fool you. The defence hasn’t improved. The attack hasn’t, possession. Don’t let a few extra points more at this point if the season than at the same point last season fool you either. I’ve watched enough of us now this last few months under Bruce and I’m starting to believe we play worse now collectively on and off the ball than we did at our worse under Pardew or Carver and the worrying thing is, this is Bruce apparently doing a good job, a much better job than Rafa lots of idiots would have everyone believing. It’s only going to get worse and messy again. If I’m Longstaff, both boys, I’d not be signing any new deals. I’d want the fuck away. If I’m Joelinton shit or not I’d be looking for ways out and put it all down to a mistake. If I’m Dubravka and Miggy I’d be thinking fucking hell, I perfom week in week out and for what? If I’m a Carroll though I’d be happy just to be here getting paid to cheerlead the crowd, Shelvey to play and not to prove anything every week or Ritchie who as long as I give 100% what more can be expected of me. And if I’m Bruce I’m well, just happy to have a job managing in the Premier League. If I’m Ashley I’m happy happy happy with 17th. If I’m a supporter though? How on earth can anyone be happy watching this shit I do not know. This that are have no real right to complain really and those that snapped up free season tickets, kudos on valuing your own club even less than Ashley does, zero. That’s the current value for money watching NUFC now represents. Only if the owner pays you to go. And yet it’s your team, your club, that will eventually pay for it the most and suffer the real costs. Sorry, but if your club truly meant something to you, you’d never be happy with this imposter of a NUFC. That’s a great post HTT, especially the second part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It was a good read, and he never mentioned Mexicans once. ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Totally agree with that, Rafa's transfers record was a lot like Bobby's it always amazed me that Bobby made so many amazing signings for a bloke that was supposedly out of touch with modern football Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It was a good read, and he never mentioned Mexicans once. ? He did mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 It was a good read, and he never mentioned Mexicans once. ? He did mind He ,mentioned a Mexican, twice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 He’s not going anywhere then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 We demand over the top, yet we won't even offer the going price Ashley's United is shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Gotta love a brazen attempt at daylight robbery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 We demand over the top, yet we won't even offer the going price Ashley's United is shit. People should attend wearing a maroon and blue scarf to show they mean business. Ashley will shit himself when 50000 roll up in them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just outlines Ashley's business [as opposed to sporting] mind, already highlighted by the Joelinton transfer. He just thinks money equals success. Pay £20 million for a forward who should guarantee promotion from the championship, and that lovely TV payday. I mean he got us promoted for £12 million. If we avoid relegation he'll probably offer Joelinton to Villa for £60 million. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattoon Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Absolute cheek of it!! Won't pay £16m for Rondon but demanding £20m for a striker the same age and less ability in the PL, how does no one call out the utter hypocrisy of it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 We demand over the top, yet we won't even offer the going price Ashley's United is shit. People should attend wearing a maroon and blue scarf to show they mean business. Ashley will shit himself when 50000 roll up in them. I'm still utterly baffled how this still happens when the owner is openly pissing on our club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Totally agree with that, Rafa's transfers record was a lot like Bobby's it always amazed me that Bobby made so many amazing signings for a bloke that was supposedly out of touch with modern football With Bobby it’s often thought he got lucky with Robert and Bellamy as he initially wanted Zenen and Jeffers first, but that’s no way to measure a manager like him by in terms of success or failure in the transfer market. It’s not just about buying good players, if it was as simple as that Souness would have done a much better job than he did for example and anyone can just go out and do that and fill their team up with good players. You have to build a good team not buy yourself one. What separated Bobby’s buys over Souness or Gullit was Bobby identified what the team needed or he could improve it with in a plate and that’s the real skill. Would we have been as good a team as we were with Robert and Bellamy with Zenden and Jeffers instead? No, but we would have even a better team than we were with them and in Bobby we had a manager who could improve players’ games and find a way to make a better team by signing players who he could get value for money from by their value to the team, how we played, how we were going to improve. He didn’t want Viana because he was such a hot prospect or simply because he was a good player, he wanted a player like him with his qualities because he could develop him, because he could add something to the team it lacked or he could change around. Not for the now, but in time because he looked at Newcastle as a long term project he could improve and improve and he did that like Rafa did. Bruce can’t, Pardew can’t because they don’t have the skill to and on top of that they can’t because the club signs players whose purpose don’t fit any criteria to the team, how we play, how they improve us or how the manager uses them. When players are signed with no thought process at all towards the team or manager no manager great or not can build a good side with players bought for him, even if they are great players. Likewise no club will see a good team built by a poor manager even if they sign good players and spend big. The irony is that the likes of Bruce do better signing poor or average players who in his limited intellect and ability can get a team up and running and just about do a job, a job the manager identifies if he has players who work hard, show passion, tackle, run around and he gets some luck he can work with them. Bruce doesn’t look at where Carroll fits in, he just looks at a big strong lad whose a Geordie who will put a shift in, who can cause defenders problems and if he gets a sniff at goal, has a chance of scoring. Same with everyone else. Rafa looks a Carrol and thinks we’re wold he fit in, how can I use him, what can he do to improve the team, how would I get him to do this, play there. And the answer would be, no thanks. Bruce, yes please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Christ man, HTT. Are you ok? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyboy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The strength with Rafa in the transfer market even when he does buy duds, is he’s excellent at improving even poor players’ games and I’d trust Rafa all the way with money buying players. Barry replacing Xabi would have been a downgrade of course, but wouldn’t have weakened Liverpool much if it all. Again Barry was underrated IMO and Rafa would have helped his game a lot. He transformed Gerrard and Torres isn’t world-class players, Bellamy and Carragher’s games come on massively under Rafa and so did Crouch. Great post HTT.......a proper supporter Another strength with Rafa is he buys players for the right reasons, players identified to add to the team be it positionally, for extra depth or to develop into better players or players signed to improve the first-team in bigger ways. The more money he has to spend, the level of his success with a player and indeed their own grows massively as he’s proved and rarely has he signed a player and that player turned out to be a waste of money. Every signing he made for Newcastle even dross like Joselu, gave just about enough to be considered good value. The total opposite of how the club’s own signings often end up working out and even the players that do work out individually, it’s never ever for the good of the team itself or about that. There is no point signing the likes of Cabaye or HBA for a team managed by Pardew. Conversely there is no point spending 2m on Kraft for a team managed by Bruce. Every signing in terms of what value or not they represent all amounts to the sum total of fuck all when the only value of NUFC as a team is keeping its status of a Premier League team, nothing more. With what Rafa had to spend, I don’t think he could have bought anyone else than he did and achieved what he did or achieved more. He might be used to winning trophies and managing big ambitious clubs and coaching top players, but what he achieved here for me stood out as a job he not only overachieved, but succeeded where no-one other than him would have. Bruce May keep us up this season, but he will take us down eventually and along the way the actual team itself, will suffer the most as good players become not so good players, promising players don’t become better players and players that do good get sold or agitate for a move. Rinse and repeat. Under Rafa I sighed watching Joselu, but give me that over sighing watching the likes of Cabaye, Ba, Remy and HBA under Pardew. And I sigh even more that Rafa, a world-class manager, a world-class coach, an astute scout, with more number 1 hits in the transfer market than flops, was never allowed, in fact was actually and purposely prevented, from the one and only thing that value for money, money well spent, money not wasted, can only be measured by and that’s out on the pitch in what the team does, how it plays, performs and just how well they are doing or not and under Rafa we were doing fucking great, Championship Champions, top ten, 13th, constantly improving. I see no improvement whatsoever under Bruce in any area and not one player has improved. The only two to have consistently looked good are the ‘keeper and our little Mexican friend, but they haven’t improved their game, they are just performing well enough the most every week. But not where they are playing at the top of their game at max levels. Longstaff senior has regressed massively, if he was breaking through now I’d think more Colback level than Carrick. Shelvey hasn’t improved, don’t let a few goals fool you. The defence hasn’t improved. The attack hasn’t, possession. Don’t let a few extra points more at this point if the season than at the same point last season fool you either. I’ve watched enough of us now this last few months under Bruce and I’m starting to believe we play worse now collectively on and off the ball than we did at our worse under Pardew or Carver and the worrying thing is, this is Bruce apparently doing a good job, a much better job than Rafa lots of idiots would have everyone believing. It’s only going to get worse and messy again. If I’m Longstaff, both boys, I’d not be signing any new deals. I’d want the fuck away. If I’m Joelinton shit or not I’d be looking for ways out and put it all down to a mistake. If I’m Dubravka and Miggy I’d be thinking fucking hell, I perfom week in week out and for what? If I’m a Carroll though I’d be happy just to be here getting paid to cheerlead the crowd, Shelvey to play and not to prove anything every week or Ritchie who as long as I give 100% what more can be expected of me. And if I’m Bruce I’m well, just happy to have a job managing in the Premier League. If I’m Ashley I’m happy happy happy with 17th. If I’m a supporter though? How on earth can anyone be happy watching this shit I do not know. This that are have no real right to complain really and those that snapped up free season tickets, kudos on valuing your own club even less than Ashley does, zero. That’s the current value for money watching NUFC now represents. Only if the owner pays you to go. And yet it’s your team, your club, that will eventually pay for it the most and suffer the real costs. Sorry, but if your club truly meant something to you, you’d never be happy with this imposter of a NUFC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyn davies Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 All we'll get are free transfers, I noticed Hatem was available along .with a few others that may do a job for the remainder of the season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 All we'll get are free transfers, I noticed Hatem was available along .with a few others that may do a job for the remainder of the season Yeah, Bruce will love that after their experience at Hull. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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