Chris Wood (now playing for Nottingham Forest)

[Tiresias]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

If offside can be done with hawkeye to the extent that it's basically like goal-line technology or when you play FIFA, that's ideal imo. The way it as the moment with the pursuit of getting to that level of perfection by drawing lines and ruining the flow of the game is just spoiling it like. 

 

It's probably a long way away from that, hawkeye can detect where a ball is in relation to a line, both simple objects, whereas detecting human body shapes in motion is a lot more complicated. Sure some tech bro will come up with some machine learning ai and that will somehow be worse. I think on offside it's largely getting things right and it's kinda silly to complain if something is 'just' offside as that's still offside. Bit of me wishes that as a rule of thumb if the VAR dudes back at base can't very quickly eyeball the static image it's close enough for it not to be a 'obvious' error, but I do see flaws in that.

[morpeth mag]

1 hour ago, PauloGeordio said:

I have no problem with the penalty. But! if we need a shithousery goal of any kind to win (and many have gone against us) then so be it too. Onwards and upwards

 

I read that as "red top mind" as in always looking for the penalty

 

 

 

Sorry for being ambiguous. I literally meant wearing a red top, as in Man Yoo or lfc

[80]

1 hour ago, ponsaelius said:

 

Saying that offsides can't be judged by human eyes ignores that:

 

1. They have been for 100+ years

2. The offside rule was never, ever intended to be measured to the Nth degree 

 

The point of the offside rule was to stop players goalhanging. Changes to the rule over time have always been to do with adjusting that basic principle (three player to two, own half not offside etc) based on the game as it has evolved.

 

If an attacker is broadly level with a defensive line then that should be absolutely fine. If it's close enough that the video needs pausing and lines drawn on a frame to measure then in my opinion it is not a clear advantage and should be allowed. Chasing perfection is a disingenuous and incorrect interpretation of the rule that has only came about owing to the existence of universal TV coverage and HD cameras.

 

 

 

 

100%

 

It's spoiling the game. There are reasons why Football is more popular than Olympic Triple Jump. The business of football is spectacle, and VAR is shit entertainment. It's human competition, not an algorithmic process for establishing who is the superior athlete.

[PauloGeordio]

1 hour ago, morpeth mag said:

Sorry for being ambiguous. I literally meant wearing a red top, as in Man Yoo or lfc

I spotted that after the cogs turned once more

[Teslact]

1 hour ago, 80 said:

 

100%

 

It's spoiling the game. There are reasons why Football is more popular than Olympic Triple Jump. The business of football is spectacle, and VAR is shit entertainment. It's human competition, not an algorithmic process for establishing who is the superior athlete.

 

Didn't expect to find any Jonathan Edwards bashing oh here 

[The College Dropout]

I agree. They should make the lines thicker still.

 

I would love to get rid of the lines but they've opened pandora's box.

 

At 1-0 we conceded to Villa. It was such a tight call but I was glad for the lines in that moment. Can we go back to a world where the lines are gone? The Villa player actually being slightly offside could cost us our safety.

 

Fundamentally the rule needs changing.

 

I remember we lost to City 1-0 under the McLaren relegation with Rafa. Aguero was offside for a whole minute, didn't come back onside at all. VAR is excellent for that and it's great those no longer happen.

[The College Dropout]

At a minimum we need a time limit for each incident.

 

Although in the Ghana Nigeria play-off - the Nigerian striker was miles offside and it took 4 minutes to chalk it off so... there's that...

[WillingtonMag]

Would happily scrap VAR for everything  not even being able to properly cebrate a goal Is fucking ridiculous tbh, even worse for the fans In the stadium who haven't got a clue what's going on.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by WillingtonMag

[Lush Vlad]

6 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said:

Would happily scrap VAR for everything  not even being able to properly cebrate a goal Is fucking ridiculous tbh, even worst for the fans In the stadium who haven't got a clue what's going on.

Always said I was happy for goal line technology and perhaps off the ball violent conduct. As opposed to waiting until after the game to dish out a ban. Otherwise, I didn’t want it. 
 

Watching the Liverpool game yesterday with a load of their fans. Big Mick Quinn was in the pub, actually  both their goals were half celebrated as they thought there may have been an offside. Then Sterling’s ruled out for being a few mm off. It’s madness. 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Lush Vlad

[LFEE]

If we can’t do daylight then just make it if both feet are in front of defender then you are off. If only one then you are on. All this judging shoulders and toes etc is pathetic. 

[Superior Acuña]

47 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said:

Would happily scrap VAR for everything  not even being able to properly cebrate a goal Is fucking ridiculous tbh, even worse for the fans In the stadium who haven't got a clue what's going on.

 

 

 

Yeah it's the goal thing for me. I don't have any principled objection to tech in football, and I'm not really arsed when VAR intervenes for red cards and penalties, but it's the impact it has on the uncertainty of a goal really counting (boring to have this debate with others again who disagree). (And I suppose you can't really can't have it for the red cards and that without also having it affect goals). For me for all the damaging effects money has had on the competition, the introduction of VAR is by far the single worst thing to happen to the game because it's soured the very best thing about football in a way nothing else could.

 

Like others, I've no issue with goalline tech and if something like that can ever exist for offsides, I'd take that, but til then I'd much prefer accepting human error is part of the game. Sadly I see no chance of a rollback, and honestly I'm really gutted.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Inferior Acuña

[morpeth mag]

Very soon offside will be a computer check in real time. Just like the ref getting an alert that the ball has crossed the line there will be an alert saying offside. Technology being trialled in junior tournaments already.

[madras]

43 minutes ago, morpeth mag said:

Very soon offside will be a computer check in real time. Just like the ref getting an alert that the ball has crossed the line there will be an alert saying offside. Technology being trialled in junior tournaments already.

Nah, there's still an element of subjectivity with some offsides, interfering with play etc.

[huss9]

ffs, how can they call the exact moment the ball is played forward?

 

think VAR should have to judge offsides by the naked eye only - no lines allowed.

then it would be only the clear and obvious that got called.

[Jackie Broon]

20 minutes ago, huss9 said:

ffs, how can they call the exact moment the ball is played forward?

 

think VAR should have to judge offsides by the naked eye only - no lines allowed.

then it would be only the clear and obvious that got called.

 

A sensor in the ball that can tell when it is kicked?

 

The problem is that officials have shown themselves totally incapable of making those judgements in a consistent and unbiased way.

[McDog]

59 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

A sensor in the ball that can tell when it is kicked?

 

The problem is that officials have shown themselves totally incapable of making those judgements in a consistent and unbiased way.

 

Yes it can, the question is can it tell where everyone is on the pitch at that moment and display that information in a digestible format they can use?

[Happinesstan]

4 hours ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

A sensor in the ball that can tell when it is kicked?

 

The problem is that officials have shown themselves totally incapable of making those judgements in a consistent and unbiased way.

This could be interesting actually. I was going to question whether it could detect when the ball leaves the foot, but this would give the attacker a fraction of an advantage.

[Optimistic Nut]

16 hours ago, ManDoon said:

Whatever happened to that “daylight” rule? Does anyone remember that? Like there had to be clear daylight between attacker and defender.

Think it was more a guideline but they should change the offside law to this for me.

[morpeth mag]

8 hours ago, madras said:

Nah, there's still an element of subjectivity with some offsides, interfering with play etc.

Of course there will still be reviews for complex decisions but incidents like the Sterling offside goal on Sunday will be called within seconds.

[Pata]

On 11/04/2022 at 15:41, ponsaelius said:

 

Saying that offsides can't be judged by human eyes ignores that:

 

1. They have been for 100+ years

2. The offside rule was never, ever intended to be measured to the Nth degree 

 

The point of the offside rule was to stop players goalhanging. Changes to the rule over time have always been to do with adjusting that basic principle (three player to two, own half not offside etc) based on the game as it has evolved.

 

If an attacker is broadly level with a defensive line then that should be absolutely fine. If it's close enough that the video needs pausing and lines drawn on a frame to measure then in my opinion it is not a clear advantage and should be allowed. Chasing perfection is a disingenuous and incorrect interpretation of the rule that has only came about owing to the existence of universal TV coverage and HD cameras.

 

 

 

We also got by with horses for thousands of years but most people use a car nowadays.

[80]

26 minutes ago, Pata said:

We also got by with horses for thousands of years but most people use a car nowadays.

But 10s of millions of people own, ride, watch, bet on and paint horses for recreation. Which is what football is, recreation. Watch engineering videos on YouTube if you're looking for the frontier of precision measurement.

[Pata]

4 minutes ago, 80 said:

But 10s of millions of people own, ride, watch, bet on and paint horses for recreation. Which is what football is, recreation. Watch engineering videos on YouTube if you're looking for the frontier of precision measurement.

I don’t watch football to see how VAR works, I just want correct decisions and don’t see the romance in incompetent officiating.

[Fantail Breeze]

4 minutes ago, Pata said:

I don’t watch football to see how VAR works, I just want correct decisions and don’t see the romance in incompetent officiating.

 

We’re not getting correct decisions.

[morpeth mag]

11 hours ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

We’re not getting correct decisions.

We are getting more correct decisions. Any change takes time to become properly effective. The problem here, and elsewhere, isn't the technology but how to develop a set of new procedures that make best use of that technology. I would suggest that a common fault is that technology is added to an existing process rather than creating a brand new process and this is what we have in football now.

[Fantail Breeze]

48 minutes ago, morpeth mag said:

We are getting more correct decisions. Any change takes time to become properly effective. The problem here, and elsewhere, isn't the technology but how to develop a set of new procedures that make best use of that technology. I would suggest that a common fault is that technology is added to an existing process rather than creating a brand new process and this is what we have in football now.

 

I won’t go over it again, but those offside decisions aren’t accurate.

 

We’re also getting decisions made because the rules have been adapted to fit VAR’s purpose. That disallowed Chelsea goal last night should never be disallowed. It was, because of VAR. Because handball doesn’t need to be intentional anymore, because of VAR. A marker down for a ‘correct decision’, but also a marker down for a shite experience and incorrect match result.

 

Also to throw in all of the random decisions made when VAR is used for fouls, red cards etc. 

 

We might be getting 5% more correct than previously, but that’s nowhere near worth implementing this system into our game and ruining it.