sunderland in the EFL

[Cornah]

We’ll not meet the troglodytes in a league game for decades..

Deep down they know this and it burns through their filthy bitter souls.

[The Fountain]

2 hours ago, Cornah said:

We’ll not meet the troglodytes in a league game for decades..

Deep down they know this and it burns through their filthy bitter souls.

They'll be promoted inside 4 seasons imo.

I know they're our rivals but they are a big club 

[Wallsendmag]

1 hour ago, The Fountain said:

They'll be promoted inside 4 seasons imo.

I know they're our rivals but they are a big club 

 

Leeds are bigger and spent 16 years outside the top flight. Sheff Wed probably a similar size to Sunderland and they've been outside the PL for near enough 25 years. 

 

Size of club means fuck all anyway. Luton beat them in the Play offs to the PL. Bournemouth are Premier League when traditionally they were always a division 3/4 club, same for Brentford.

 

Getting 40k crowds because it's pennies to get in guarantees nothing as it doesn't generate much income. As a double whammy they are hopeless at home so the crowd clearly doesn’t help them. They lost their manager to a fellow Championship club last season and their best player to a Championship club this season because they have a far smaller budget than the top spending clubs even in that league.

[madras]

1 hour ago, The Fountain said:

They'll be promoted inside 4 seasons imo.

I know they're our rivals but they are a big club 

Wouldn't be surprised if the were in the play offs this season, then who knows. Best footballing team I've seen in that division but can be bullied a bit, like last season. Clarke has stepped up to be this seasons version of the kid they had on loan from Man Utd (name escapes me).

[Big Geordie]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

Wouldn't be surprised if the were in the play offs this season, then who knows. Best footballing team I've seen in that division but can be bullied a bit, like last season. Clarke has stepped up to be this seasons version of the kid they had on loan from Man Utd (name escapes me).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amad_Diallo

[RS]

3 hours ago, The Fountain said:

They'll be promoted inside 4 seasons imo.

I know they're our rivals but they are a big club 

What makes them big?  Fanbase? I’d describe them as a  well supported club, not a big club. Similar to ourselves, although we had a blip in the late 90’s and since last season as potential big club material. 

[Wallsendmag]

1 hour ago, RS said:

What makes them big?  Fanbase? I’d describe them as a  well supported club, not a big club. Similar to ourselves, although we had a blip in the late 90’s and since last season as potential big club material. 

 

We are a far bigger club than Sunderland like. I think any neutral would agree with that. Whether it's trophy count, fanbase, club stature, amount of time spent in top division, we've never been in Div 3, record in Europe....basically whatever road you want to go down we are bigger.

 

Their historical place is probably more or less exactly where they sit now.

[The Fountain]

3 hours ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Leeds are bigger and spent 16 years outside the top flight. Sheff Wed probably a similar size to Sunderland and they've been outside the PL for near enough 25 years. 

 

Size of club means fuck all anyway. Luton beat them in the Play offs to the PL. Bournemouth are Premier League when traditionally they were always a division 3/4 club, same for Brentford.

 

Getting 40k crowds because it's pennies to get in guarantees nothing as it doesn't generate much income. As a double whammy they are hopeless at home so the crowd clearly doesn’t help them. They lost their manager to a fellow Championship club last season and their best player to a Championship club this season because they have a far smaller budget than the top spending clubs even in that league.

All fair points, just think they'll be promoted soon, probably based on the fact they're lucky bassas

[Wolfcastle]

5 hours ago, The Fountain said:

They'll be promoted inside 4 seasons imo.

I know they're our rivals but they are a big club 

As long as they hold on to 2025. Want to be able to say then that they've a worse league (and cup) record than Wimbledon (a club that hasn't existed for 20years) in the last 40years. Its more rounded than now, rolls of the tongue easier and more chance of sticking.

 

[Wandy]

Their average league placing since the end of WW2 is a place or two outside of the top 20, making them officially a 2nd tier club. In the PL era it's even worse, 25th.

 

They like to bang on at us, asking why we have some expectancy that our club challenge at the top when our average league place is about 11th. Well if that's the case, why should they expect that they be competing in the PL, based on nearly the last 80 years of their history?

 

I'd still put them about 12th to 15th biggest club in the country but they've been getting progressively smaller over a long period of time. Ironically, a successful NUFC could possibly help them turn that around, as a more attractive North East to the world's top footballers could rub off on them to a certain extent.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Wandy

[Wolfcastle]

3 hours ago, RS said:

What makes them big?  Fanbase? I’d describe them as a  well supported club, not a big club. Similar to ourselves, although we had a blip in the late 90’s and since last season as potential big club material. 

Even then they've only really got gates of note since 97/98, their biggest average in the 30years prior was 31k and most were below 20k.

Were again going back to the mid60s which appears to be where they ceased being a big club other than in memory.

It doesn't really warrant compare with ourselves in that area. Only three times since the mid 30s has our average gate been below 20k aside from all the other one sided attendance stats.

If there was a way I could agree whilst making it clear I think there's no comparison with us.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Wolfcastle

[Coffee_Johnny]

1 hour ago, Wandy said:

Their average league placing since the end of WW2 is a place or two outside of the top 20, making them officially a 2nd tier club. In the PL era it's even worse, 25th.

 

They like to bang on at us, asking why we have some expectancy that our club challenge at the top when our average league place is about 11th. Well if that's the case, why should they expect that they be competing in the PL, based on nearly the last 80 years of their history?

 

I'd still put them about 12th to 15th biggest club in the country but they've been getting progressively smaller over a long period of time. Ironically, a successful NUFC could possibly help them turn that around, as a more attractive North East to the world's top footballers could rub off on them to a certain extent.

 

 

 

I’m curious as to why? 

[Slim]

 

[Wandy]

19 minutes ago, Coffee_Johnny said:

I’m curious as to why? 

 

Their pre-WW2 history mainly which, in all fairness, is impressive. In 1939 they were comfortably one of the biggest clubs in the country but they have dined out on it for a long time now.

 

Ask yourself this. Who, outside of Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton, Villa and Newcastle are bigger than them? West Ham certainly are now and arguably Leeds too, based on potential. After that though there is very little between around another 10 clubs, one of which is SAFC. Based on their crowds and early history I'd put them leading the pack of a 2nd tier of clubs that includes the likes of Wolves, West Brom and Leicester. 

[Paullow]

Yeah, I'd say there was a clear top 9 in terms of club size, the obvious 6, then Newcastle, Villa, and Everton in whatever order. These are the top 9 in terms of trophies, all time points, all time Premier League points, years in the PL etc. All 9 clubs are from 'core' UK cities as well.

 

West Ham have entered the conversation more in recent years with their league finishes, only missing about 4 of the PL seasons (unlike the Mackems 16), I guess that trophy last year, but also mainly their recent impressive attendances, so they'd be clear 10th IMO. They are also 10th in the all time PL table.

 

I'd personally put Leeds next mainly due to them doing well when i was growing up in the 90s, regular top 6 finishes, CL semi final, big media presence, from a huge city, and their must successful period was at least in living memory to some, but their 16, or now 17, years outside of the top flight definitely lowers their stock somewhat, especially with those years in the 3rd tier.

 

As others say, after that there's not too much to separate the next batch of clubs. Sunderland are 10th in the all time top flight points league, obviously massively assisted by what they did 100 years ago, but no top 6 finishes since the early 1950s, only 3 top 12 finishes in those 70 years, and only 4 matches in Europe in their entire history absolutely lowers their stock. They are 18th in the all time PL table, so they could be anywhere from 12th to 18th really. I'd probably put Leicester ahead of them due to their recent  title, other cups, European adventures etc. and probably Forest as well due to the Clough years and also being from a major UK city to add a bit more profile and stature to them, and I'd probably have Sunderland just after that around 14th or 15th.

 

It obviously means very little in reality, and others will have their own variables to boost their sides stock, but that's how I see it FWIW.

[Optimistic Nut]

Leeds, Sunderland, Leicester, Forest, Boro probably similar size clubs imo. 

[Wandy]

12 minutes ago, Paullow said:

Yeah, I'd say there was a clear top 9 in terms of club size, the obvious 6, then Newcastle, Villa, and Everton in whatever order. These are the top 9 in terms of trophies, all time points, all time Premier League points, years in the PL etc. All 9 clubs are from 'core' UK cities as well.

 

West Ham have entered the conversation more in recent years with their league finishes, only missing about 4 of the PL seasons (unlike the Mackems 16), I guess that trophy last year, but also mainly their recent impressive attendances, so they'd be clear 10th IMO. They are also 10th in the all time PL table.

 

I'd personally put Leeds next mainly due to them doing well when i was growing up in the 90s, regular top 6 finishes, CL semi final, big media presence, from a huge city, and their must successful period was at least in living memory to some, but their 16, or now 17, years outside of the top flight definitely lowers their stock somewhat, especially with those years in the 3rd tier.

 

As others say, after that there's not too much to separate the next batch of clubs. Sunderland are 10th in the all time top flight points league, obviously massively assisted by what they did 100 years ago, but no top 6 finishes since the early 1950s, only 3 top 12 finishes in those 70 years, and only 4 matches in Europe in their entire history absolutely lowers their stock. They are 18th in the all time PL table, so they could be anywhere from 12th to 18th really. I'd probably put Leicester ahead of them due to their recent  title, other cups, European adventures etc. and probably Forest as well due to the Clough years and also being from a major UK city to add a bit more profile and stature to them, and I'd probably have Sunderland just after that around 14th or 15th.

 

It obviously means very little in reality, and others will have their own variables to boost their sides stock, but that's how I see it FWIW.

 

Yep, agree with that.

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 hour ago, Slim said:

 

 

"Aah hayte fuckin' cats!"

[Karjala]

Did mackem commentator nick Barnes used to cover us for a local paper? Sure in one of the Champions league build up videos he was in it, asking questions at a presser.

 

Doing his 1000th mackem match this weekend, hopefully another loss.

[Optimistic Nut]

2 minutes ago, Karjala said:

Did mackem commentator nick Barnes used to cover us for a local paper? Sure in one of the Champions league build up videos he was in it, asking questions at a presser.

 

Doing his 1000th mackem match this weekend, hopefully another loss.

 

Yeah there was a bit on Look North last night on him. Covered us for a few years in the early 00s then moved on to Sunderland. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Sunderland’s ‘natural’ home being somewhere around the arse end of the top division or the top of the second tier.   They do have a sizeable support from a football-daft area with a huge catchment area, and a classic history.

 

But so have quite a few other clubs - as mentioned above, Sunderland on this basis share far more in common with Sheff Wed than they do any of English football’s top eight or nine clubs.
 

They’re bigger than Palace, Bournemouth, Luton etc.  But I don’t think they’re necessarily bigger than Leicester, Derby, Sheff Utd & Wed, West Brom, Wolves …

[Pancrate1892]

2 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Yeah there was a bit on Look North last night on him. Covered us for a few years in the early 00s then moved on to Sunderland. 

Is it me but are look north pro mackem??? They seem to wank over the mackem games and show them first, the only similar level of propaganda is the invasion at Newcastle airport with the Sunderland signs and selling mackem shirts about ten year ago 

[Nucasol]

1 hour ago, Pancrate1892 said:

Is it me but are look north pro mackem??? They seem to wank over the mackem games and show them first, the only similar level of propaganda is the invasion at Newcastle airport with the Sunderland signs and selling mackem shirts about ten year ago 

Let’s not go all RTG lads. I think they give reasonably balanced coverage of us and the mackems. Both sides regularly scream bias, so the reality is something in the middle.

[Choppy Chop Chop]

3 hours ago, Pancrate1892 said:

Is it me but are look north pro mackem??? They seem to wank over the mackem games and show them first, the only similar level of propaganda is the invasion at Newcastle airport with the Sunderland signs and selling mackem shirts about ten year ago 

Nah pretty neutral methinks. They know they're shite 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Choppy Chop Chop
Spelling

[Sima]

https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/whos-your-favourite-central-midfielder-for-safc-in-your-lifetime.1618021/

I wonder how many of our midfielders you'd have to get through before the names suggested here get anywhere near our best.

 

I'd say at least 40.