sunderland

[Doctor Zaius]

7 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said:

I know it's heresy but I'm cool with the inbreds' early success. It's actually good for football. 

 

Notwithstanding my, previously, stated opinion that the 3 promoted teams should stay up, for the good of the game etc etc them beating Chelsea is canny. Fuck the cartel.

 

Nah

[Toon1984]

2 hours ago, Nucasol said:

 

Well on their way to finishing above us apparently.

Yes. Because that’s the only thing that really matters.

[gdm]

2 hours ago, Nucasol said:

 

Well on their way to finishing above us apparently.

All that after 9 games. Maybe write that after 30 games ffs

[Scoot]

Why is it this "north east top dogs" stuff only get an airing whenever sunderland are briefly above Newcastle?

 

We've spent the last 8 years, 1 and 2 leagues above them and not once did I see "north east top dogs" mentioned.

 

It completely proves, we dont measure success based on being above sunderland, where as thats exactly how they measure it, being above us.

 

Proper small time club and fans.

[Tiresias]

1 hour ago, Mattoon said:

There's 6 points between 3rd and 15th, it's been a mad start to the season with some eyebrow raising results, we're hardly off the pace we just had a slow start due to he who shall not be named. I don't think its shocking that we're just 5 points off champions league places in October given the circumstances, we'll be fine and it won't be long until the league starts to take shape with us where we should be.

 

 

I probably phrased that badly, it's ultimately no need to panic really, just mean I'm sure eddie and the club all feel this is not where we want to be. The slow starts do need to be addressed.

[Tiresias]

1 hour ago, Scoot said:

Why is it this "north east top dogs" stuff only get an airing whenever sunderland are briefly above Newcastle?

 

We've spent the last 8 years, 1 and 2 leagues above them and not once did I see "north east top dogs" mentioned.

 

It completely proves, we dont measure success based on being above sunderland, where as thats exactly how they measure it, being above us.

 

Proper small time club and fans.

 

Where are they at in the champions league group stage anyway? Oh wait...

[et tu brute]

They have taken a loan out and they're creaming themselves about January signings. No, it's to try and ensure they don't get a points deduction, as they will be well over their £61 million loss allowance for the three year period currently. 

[Wolfcastle]

9 hours ago, Scoot said:

Why is it this "north east top dogs" stuff only get an airing whenever sunderland are briefly above Newcastle?

 

We've spent the last 8 years, 1 and 2 leagues above them and not once did I see "north east top dogs" mentioned.

 

It completely proves, we dont measure success based on being above sunderland, where as thats exactly how they measure it, being above us.

 

Proper small time club and fans.

None of their small time stuff does - north east top dogs, Wembley visits, wins in a row, 2-1 scorelines, gaps.  Its weird (and annoying) that they pick attacks that we never used against them despite being available to us, but convince themselves that its devastating. Or are they saying for them to be two divisions behind us is no big deal but for us to be a few places behind them is shameful? 

 

To have been better than them you'd only have had to finish 15th the vast majority of the last several generations and half the teams in the third division have probably turned them over in recent times. Dont see any of them celebrating it so why would we.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2025 by Wolfcastle

[Optimistic Nut]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C._in_European_football

 

 

100% edited by a Mackem.

[TBG]

[SAFC L]

4 hours ago, et tu brute said:

They have taken a loan out and they're creaming themselves about January signings. No, it's to try and ensure they don't get a points deduction, as they will be well over their £61 million loss allowance for the three year period currently. 

Do loans count as income for PSR purposes?

[et tu brute]

7 minutes ago, SAFC L said:

Do loans count as income for PSR purposes?

They will do if a fee is paid. Also wages will count if it's a signing you have made

[TheBrownBottle]

26 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

They will do if a fee is paid. Also wages will count if it's a signing you have made

A bank loan doesn’t count towards income though for PSR.  They won’t have taken a bank loan to help with PSR issues - it’ll be for running the club (including signing players)

[midds]

If a bank loan sorted PSR then it seems baffling that we haven't done it in the last 3 or 4 years...

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Optimistic Nut said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C._in_European_football

 

 

100% edited by a Mackem.

Theirs would be a pretty short article …

[et tu brute]

59 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

A bank loan doesn’t count towards income though for PSR.  They won’t have taken a bank loan to help with PSR issues - it’ll be for running the club (including signing players)

So basically they're going to have to do a shareholder loan or sell a few players then before then end of June to make up the deficit. I just can't see currently how they don't fail the PSR loss of less than 61 million over the 3 years. 

[simonsays]

30 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

So basically they're going to have to do a shareholder loan or sell a few players then before then end of June to make up the deficit. I just can't see currently how they don't fail the PSR loss of less than 61 million over the 3 years. 

Eh?  How would a shareholder loan help them?  If that was the case we wouldn't have had to sell Minteh and Anderson 

[et tu brute]

13 minutes ago, simonsays said:

Eh?  How would a shareholder loan help them?  If that was the case we wouldn't have had to sell Minteh and Anderson 

 

Allocation of shares to provide money which we have done every year including very recently. Not a loan though I was thinking of the bank loan when replying 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2025 by et tu brute

[TheBrownBottle]

5 hours ago, et tu brute said:

So basically they're going to have to do a shareholder loan or sell a few players then before then end of June to make up the deficit. I just can't see currently how they don't fail the PSR loss of less than 61 million over the 3 years. 

A shareholder loan won’t cover PSR losses either tbf - though the interest on it is included in PSR, whether or not the shareholder has actually applied interest or not.

 

edit: nor will the sale of shares, nor any other type of outside investment.   PSR is based upon club’s revenue

 

Honestly, the rules are fucking crackers  

 

I haven’t sat down and worked out their PSR, but their purchases to sales ratio was about 3.5 to 1 over the summer, which depending on the profit on those sales might well mean they’re within PSR limits for the season. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2025 by TheBrownBottle

[et tu brute]

41 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

A shareholder loan won’t cover PSR losses either tbf - though the interest on it is included in PSR, whether or not the shareholder has actually applied interest or not.

 

edit: nor will the sale of shares, nor any other type of outside investment.   PSR is based upon club’s revenue

 

Honestly, the rules are fucking crackers  

 

I haven’t sat down and worked out their PSR, but their purchases to sales ratio was about 3.5 to 1 over the summer, which depending on the profit on those sales might well mean they’re within PSR limits for the season. 

 

 

 

The sales of shares does come into PSR I thought, 90 million allowed to cover losses of up to 105 million over three years if I'm right? It's not only the sales ratio I was thinking of, their wages and bonus payments would have went up massively also. Bearing in mind they have roughly a £17 million loss from the first two years, that only gives them roughly £44 million to play with this year. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2025 by et tu brute

[Groundhog63]

Next year's Champions league money will sort them out. 

[SAFC L]

2 hours ago, et tu brute said:

The sales of shares does come into PSR I thought, 90 million allowed to cover losses of up to 105 million over three years if I'm right? It's not only the sales ratio I was thinking of, their wages and bonus payments would have went up massively also. Bearing in mind they have roughly a £17 million loss from the first two years, that only gives them roughly £44 million to play with this year. 

 

 

 

I might be well off here, but isn’t it based on club accounts, not the season as a whole?

 

The most recent accounts only go to 30 July 2024, so the accounts where there’s roughly a £44m loss to play with goes up to 30 July 2025 (these are due April 2026) - this will include the prem money of £100m+, Jobe sale of £30m or so & Watson sale of £10m. As for expenses, it’ll only include incoming transfers of up to 30 July 2025?

 

This loan taken out could well be for more January reinforcements, no one really knows to be fair.

[Boey_Jarton]

Shareholder loans and/or debt restructuring/capital repayments have nothing to do with PSR.

 

These are balance sheets matters which are important to a clubs liquidity and solvency but are not considered by PSR. 

 

PSR is driven by qualifying income less qualifying costs over a rolling 3 year period. 

 

A club could be technically insolvent but stay within PSR constraints whilst another club could have Net Assets of £1 trillion due to a shareholder injection making it the most financially solvent company on earth and it could still fail PSR. 

[Keegans Export]

I can't see them having any issues with PSR. They sold Jobe & Watson in June which should help with the 24/25 period and they'll obviously get a huge boost in 25/26 with the PL income.

[et tu brute]

22 minutes ago, Boey_Jarton said:

Shareholder loans and/or debt restructuring/capital repayments have nothing to do with PSR.

 

These are balance sheets matters which are important to a clubs liquidity and solvency but are not considered by PSR. 

 

PSR is driven by qualifying income less qualifying costs over a rolling 3 year period. 

 

A club could be technically insolvent but stay within PSR constraints whilst another club could have Net Assets of £1 trillion due to a shareholder injection making it the most financially solvent company on earth and it could still fail PSR. 

Loans don't, but injection of cash through shares restructuring does:

 

In the context of the Premier League, clubs are allowed to sell shares to cover a maximum financial loss of £105 million over a three-year period, provided that £90 million is covered by secure funding from owners, such as buying shares instead of loans. This rule is part of the Profit and Sustainability Rules (PSR), which aim to ensure clubs spend within their means and avoid breaching financial regulations