Now That's What I Call Transfer Rumours! 7

[LFEE]

1 hour ago, ohmelads said:

I don't see the problem being him leaving. He seems happy and we're going places. The problem will be his agent using this interest to demand a massive new contract which completely shatters our wage bill structure. He'll want top 4 wages and why not because that's what he'd get at these clubs. We'll have to pay it to keep him, and that then has a domino effect through the squad. It was inevitably going to happen, but we maybe didn't expect one of our signings to be this good so early on. 

This is the only issue I see also. It’s where squad building becomes very difficult when bridging the gap with teams ahead of us.

 

Personally wouldn’t renew any contract within first 2 seasons. Sets a dangerous precedent.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by LFEE

[80]

37 minutes ago, LFEE said:

This is the only issue I see also. It’s where squad building becomes very difficult when bridging the gap with teams ahead of us.

 

Personally wouldn’t renew any contract within first 2 seasons. Sets a dangerous precedent.

 

 

 

Conversely, it shows prospective signings that we won't trap them in a contract they signed when in a weak bargaining position, and Newcastle's the kind of club they can grow their career at.

 

Seems pretty obvious that we could structure any contract based on the club's position e.g. bump to £160k basic as a thank you, £200k if we make Europe, £250k if we make Champion's League. That sounds pretty reasonable, reflecting the club's trajectory and income streams.

 

I'm in agreement with those saying any player getting bent out of shape about the breaking of an artificially-imposed salary structure should give their heads a shake. It should be handled carefully of course, but ultimately squad members should be seeing it as an opportunity.

[Kanji]

Personally, I trust Ashworth and Howe. 

[Kanji]

1 hour ago, STM said:

 

I'm not sure I agree. If he was a new signing and immediately was given double the next most paid player, perhaps that would raise eyebrows.

 

Put yourself in the shoes of Wilson, Trippier, Shelvey and maybe even ASM. Give them the choice of keeping Bruno but him being the highest paid player, or losing him because you couldn't handle someone earning more than you, what do you?

 

I've said this before and I will say it again, any player who looks at Bruno on 200k a week (currently on 100kish) and thinks "that's not fair" wants to be launched into the moon.

 

He's clearly our best player, clearly our star man, clearly where we want to be as a club. You want the same wages? Go and earn it.

 

With all that said, I'd have no issue with Botman joining him in years time, provided he continues his form but again, it has to come through merit, not jealousy.

Bang on. It’s so painfully simple it does my head. 

[LFEE]

56 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Bang on. It’s so painfully simple it does my head. 

So what do you do when the other 10 players stop giving it there all for the team? Drop them? Sell them? And if so for who and at what cost? 🙂

 

Its not simple at all. The results you are seeing now should be evidence alone of a team on sensible parity coached and managed very well.
 

Bruno is a good player and deserves to be in our highest earners bracket which he is. Talk of doubling wages etc this early in his contract is madness. 
 

Id like to think most of our newer signings have very incentivised contacts anyway with bonuses no one is aware of.

 

 

[Kanji]

13 minutes ago, LFEE said:

So what do you do when the other 10 players stop giving it there all for the team? Drop them? Sell them? And if so for who and at what cost? 🙂

 

Its not simple at all. The results you are seeing now should be evidence alone of a team on sensible parity coached and managed very well.
 

Bruno is a good player and deserves to be in our highest earners bracket which he is. Talk of doubling wages etc this early in his contract is madness. 
 

Id like to think most of our newer signings have very incentivised contacts anyway with bonuses no one is aware of.

 

 

 

Mate, respectfully disagree. Guys like Longstaff, Almiron, Willock, Schar etc know the top end players like Bruno, Isak and Botman are the future, hence the massive transfer fees. They will hardly kick off when sweet Bruno is making double them and when he's being linked with Chelsea and Real Madrid every window. Those guys are gradually getting bumper deals reflecting their importance into the team. You must look at evidence too - where Shelvey, Longstaff have joked that the club is moving forward and they realize they may not be part of the long-term plans given what they see the club is trying to achieve. 

[Groundhog63]

14 minutes ago, LFEE said:

So what do you do when the other 10 players stop giving it there all for the team? Drop them? Sell them? And if so for who and at what cost? 🙂

Id like to think most of our newer signings have very incentivised contacts anyway with bonuses no one is aware of.

 

 

The bonus is playing for Eddie's famous Black & Whites. 

Everyone's aware of that 😉😎

[Groundhog63]

Just now, Kanji said:

You must look at evidence too - where Shelvey, Longstaff have joked that the club is moving forward and they realize they may not be part of the long-term plans given what they see the club is trying to achieve. 

This. 

They know the score. As do all the players with us on this transition stage. 

Remarkable thing about Eddie is how he's got the whole lot of them in a group think. Even the one's in the periphery still on board. 

[Kanji]

Again, and I'll say this one last time to not belabor the point - Eddie Howe and Ashworth have talked about wage structure and team unity - particularly Howe, so if you see it happening you can bet your life that he approved it and everyone is swimming in the right direction. We're not a club with some random executive who's a maverick or bad egg. I think people forget we've paid peanuts in wages for far too long and the entire football world has moved on -- the issue has always been wages to turnover ratio and ours is fucking shite because we have a 4 man commercial team and below market legacy commercial deals from the MA era. It appears to me, good squad players are getting rewarded with better wages (sometimes a year or two tacked on) and now our top top player in Bruno is getting made sure we protect his long term value. 

[Unbelievable]

1 minute ago, Kanji said:

 

Mate, respectfully disagree. Guys like Longstaff, Almiron, Willock, Schar etc know the top end players like Bruno, Isak and Botman are the future, hence the massive transfer fees. They will hardly kick off when sweet Bruno is making double them and when he's being linked with Chelsea and Real Madrid every window. Those guys are gradually getting bumper deals reflecting their importance into the team. You must look at evidence too - where Shelvey, Longstaff have joked that the club is moving forward and they realize they may not be part of the long-term plans given what they see the club is trying to achieve. 

Conversely it is entirely sensible to want a new player to show consistency in their performance level, and as such to have as a general rule of thumb there will be no massive wage increases in the first two years of a player signing for the club. Their current wage reflects the fact they were not consistently at the level where a much higher wage was merited when they joined, surely?

 

For the likes of Bruno, Botman and Isak, in their early to mid 20’s surely a wage hike and potentially a contract extension after two years when both parties are happy to commit long term is perfectly reasonable?

[Kanji]

Just now, Unbelievable said:

Conversely it is entirely sensible to want a new player to show consistency in their performance level, and as such to have as a general rule of thumb there will be no massive wage increases in the first two years of a player signing for the club. Their current wage reflects the fact they were not consistently at the level where a much higher wage was merited when they joined, surely?

 

For the likes of Bruno, Botman and Isak, in their early to mid 20’s surely a wage hike and potentially a contract extension after two years when both parties are happy to commit long term is perfectly reasonable?

 

Personally I'd rather not be doing quick increases but if there are clubs sniffing around and you want to protect your asset in today's environment you do what it takes to protect your interests. 

[Unbelievable]

6 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

Personally I'd rather not be doing quick increases but if there are clubs sniffing around and you want to protect your asset in today's environment you do what it takes to protect your interests. 

I’d rather protect the dressing room culture than pander to the wishes of a player who would have only been here a year. If any player feels they’ve outgrown us and want to leave for some other club they’re a liability anyway, so sell them for a massive profit and replace with the next prospect from your “shadow team” you have carefully scouted. This is the way Brighton operate for example, and no doubt what Ashworth is planning to implement here, but on a bigger scale. This buying and selling well will also help massively with FFP. This club and its plans for the short to mid term future is bigger than any player, so if they don’t want to be here they’re free to leave, on the club’s terms.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Unbelievable

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I would be very surprised if Bruno is actually agitating for more money already. Doesn't seem very likely to me. 

[Kanji]

14 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

I’d rather protect the dressing room culture than pander to the wishes of a player who would have only been here a year. If any player feels they’ve outgrown us and want to leave for some other club they’re a liability anyway, so sell them for a massive profit and replace with the next prospect from your “shadow team” you have carefully scouted. This is the way Brighton operate for example, and no doubt what Ashworth is planning to implement here, but on a bigger scale. This buying and selling well will also help massively with FFP. This club and its plans for the short to mid term future is bigger than any player, so if they don’t want to be here they’re free to leave, on the club’s terms.

 

 

 

 

So if Ashworth and Howe offer Bruno a bumper deal to ward off interest, don't you think these guys weighed every option? And again, do you really think dressing room culture of a bunch nice no dickheads give a fuck if we went out and showed our hand that we are protecting our world class CM? You really think Willock is going to sulk? Or would you not think the players are saying - hey this club means it, we're not going to sell at first chance or let the press speculate?

[Unbelievable]

2 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

So if Ashworth and Howe offer Bruno a bumper deal to ward off interest, don't you think these guys weighed every option? And again, do you really think dressing room culture of a bunch nice no dickheads give a fuck if we went out and showed our hand that we are protecting our world class CM? You really think Willock is going to sulk? Or would you not think the players are saying - hey this club means it, we're not going to sell at first chance or let the press speculate?

There’s a lot to be said for that as well. I have complete trust in Ashworth, Howe and all to do what’s right for the club. In your example it would make a big difference if Bruno was demanding an increase to stay or if the club was being proactive and offered Bruno a better deal with an extension on its own accord. In the latter case as you suggest the other players could see is as a player being rewarded for performing excellently instead of for throwing a huff.

[Kanji]

1 minute ago, Unbelievable said:

There’s a lot to be said for that as well. I have complete trust in Ashworth, Howe and all to do what’s right for the club. In your example it would make a big difference if Bruno was demanding an increase to stay or if the club was being proactive and offered Bruno a better deal with an extension on its own accord. In the latter case as you suggest the other players could see is as a player being rewarded for performing excellently instead of for throwing a huff.

 

yes mate, and it seems very clear that the club are being proactive and rewarding Bruno with a bumper deal to 1) ward off the top 2-3 clubs 2) increase contract value and most importantly 3) reward him for being the talisman  ---- again, this is if the recent press about us planning to do this is true. 

[LFEE]

45 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

Personally I'd rather not be doing quick increases but if there are clubs sniffing around and you want to protect your asset in today's environment you do what it takes to protect your interests. 

They have 4-5yrs on their contract. The club IS protected.

[80]

2 hours ago, Kanji said:

Again, and I'll say this one last time to not belabor the point - Eddie Howe and Ashworth have talked about wage structure and team unity - particularly Howe, so if you see it happening you can bet your life that he approved it and everyone is swimming in the right direction. We're not a club with some random executive who's a maverick or bad egg. I think people forget we've paid peanuts in wages for far too long and the entire football world has moved on -- the issue has always been wages to turnover ratio and ours is fucking shite because we have a 4 man commercial team and below market legacy commercial deals from the MA era. It appears to me, good squad players are getting rewarded with better wages (sometimes a year or two tacked on) and now our top top player in Bruno is getting made sure we protect his long term value. 

Totally right. Our squad has been a lower end premiership team working on a championship budget for a long time. There are bound to be distortions due to the major positive changes. I'm confident - and happy - that the Schars and Longstaffs will be getting bumps too to spread the joy.

 

But when you have a player like Bruno Guimaraes, who is a 3d contributor - on the pitch, in the dressing room and in marketing value - you have to recognise that it's people like him who are the tide raising all the ships. And unlike a hypothetical Johnny come lately, he turned up and did the spade work without blinking when we were at a very low ebb last January.

[80]

2 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I would be very surprised if Bruno is actually agitating for more money already. Doesn't seem very likely to me. 

I largely agree. I think this would be more about the club being sensibly proactive. It's easier to keep a plate in the air when it's already spinning fast.

[80]

2 hours ago, Unbelievable said:

I’d rather protect the dressing room culture than pander to the wishes of a player who would have only been here a year. If any player feels they’ve outgrown us and want to leave for some other club they’re a liability anyway, so sell them for a massive profit and replace with the next prospect from your “shadow team” you have carefully scouted. This is the way Brighton operate for example, and no doubt what Ashworth is planning to implement here, but on a bigger scale. This buying and selling well will also help massively with FFP. This club and its plans for the short to mid term future is bigger than any player, so if they don’t want to be here they’re free to leave, on the club’s terms.

 

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I think - with regards our current players like Bruno -  you're thinking in a way that's too oppositional. Where possible we should be looking for mutual growth and players that feel the same way.

 

I think, and hope, the aim of the game is to be more than just a larger Brighton. Not to say that we won't do it that way sometimes, but it shouldn't be the default assumption with all players.

[Whitley mag]

Think this lad has been scouted by the club in recent months. Could be a dark horse as the extra midfield option we're after, certainly the right age and type of player Howe likes working with.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Whitley mag

[Dokko]

1 hour ago, Whitley mag said:

Think this lad has been scouted by the club in recent months. Could be a dark horse as the extra midfield option we're after, certainly the right age and type of player Howe likes working with.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We were after him 4 years ago when he was at Fulham. 

[Manxst]

22 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

We were after him 4 years ago when he was at Fulham. 

Presume we didn’t follow up any interest if he went to MK Dons from Fulham? 

[SteV]

Just to add to the wages discussion… might be a bit of guesswork involved in these numbers, and we’ll already have increased quite a bit given our signings in the last two windows, but shows how far away we were from CL-level teams. 
 

It’s a bit of a chicken and egg situation mind as do you pay CL-level wages to get into the CL, or vice-versa.

[beardsleymagic]

Funny how Liverpool's "ceiling" is nearly 3 times as high at the minute than ours, yet Klopp conveniently doesn't mention this when referencing us in press conferences