Other games (2024/25)

[Anderson]

Wew, great double save.

 

[Tsunami]

Wow

[Fak]

Just now, Anderson said:

Wew, great double save.

 

Apparently the best save Robbie Savage has ever seen. 

[KaKa]

Raya man. Wow!

[Pata]

Just now, Fak said:

Apparently the best save Robbie Savage has ever seen. 

 

Hard to better than that tbf.

[JB]

Just now, Fak said:

Apparently the best save Robbie Savage has ever seen. 

 

Absolute knuckle dragger

[Mike]

16 minutes ago, RodneyCisse said:

Not loving the 3 day champions league week.

 

Games gone.

[KaKa]

The young Nigerian striker Ilenikhena strikes for Monaco.

 

Really good signing for Monaco this past summer.

[Disco]

Arsenal practising their 0-0 routine for the weekend? This has been absolutely shite.

[Lush Vlad]

Just now, Disco said:

Arsenal practising their 0-0 routine for the weekend? This has been absolutely shite.

Effective, but so boring to watch. Mikel Pulis will be playing 6 centre backs soon. 

[Pilko]

Could someone ask Savage to talk about Raya's double save a bit more, he's hardly mentioned it at all.

[54]

Another issue with this format is that you have a 2/3 chance of progressing, so in early games, teams can coast without the jeopardy. 

[Pilko]

They're falling over themselves to talk about what a brilliant result this is for Arsenal aren't they? It's not a bad result by any stretch but you'd think they're plucky underdogs who fought stoutly for a desperate point the way Keown and the other thick cunts are going on.

[ponsaelius]

1 minute ago, Pilko said:

They're falling over themselves to talk about what a brilliant result this is for Arsenal aren't they? It's not a bad result by any stretch but you'd think they're plucky underdogs who fought stoutly for a desperate point the way Keown and the other thick cunts are going on.

 

You wouldn't think their wagebill was 4x Atalanta's.

[Pata]

7 minutes ago, 54 said:

Another issue with this format is that you have a 2/3 chance of progressing, so in early games, teams can coast without the jeopardy. 

 

Aye, it feels meaningless at least in the early rounds. Man City and Barcelona might struggle to win their groups after these results but now with no groups and still seven games left it's just a big meh.

[Kaizero]

30 minutes ago, 54 said:

Another issue with this format is that you have a 2/3 chance of progressing, so in early games, teams can coast without the jeopardy. 

 

This is actually a misconception. The new format adds two league games that now could actually matter for the "big clubs" who are always expected to coast through the group stages. In the previous format, those teams usually had their advancing to the next round sorted after game 4, at most after game 5 - leaving the fifth/sixth group games meaningless for them, thus allowing them to field their reserves/U21s in them, saving their best players those extra 90/180 minutes.

 

Now, however, if you don't place in the top eight - you get another extra two games to play, and these two are no longer group matches but knock-outs, meaning you can't risk fielding too many ressies/youths in your starting line-up for them. 

 

That leaves us with the much desired and obvious aim for the "top clubs" to finish in the top eight of the new CL League system, skipping those two extra matches. However, the race for top eight will be helluva lot tighter than the race for the top two spots in the old CL system where groups of four were still a thing. If one or more of the top clubs slip on a banana peel in their first 5-6 fixtures, like Barcelona did against Monaco today, suddenly the extra two games in the league end up mattering instead of being a rare exhibition match where the depth players notch a first team appearance.

 

All in all the new CL system does the exact opposite of what FIFPro and the players themselves are crying out for, which is a less congested fixture list to allow them time to recuperate completely after matches instead of playing 90+ minutes twice a week way into January, only for the "best teams" to continue playing twice a week until near the end of the season - an end of the season which will immediately be followed by the new, idiotic, FIFA Club World Cup, further exploiting the players and putting their longevity as professional footballers at risk due to fatigue related injuries and similar.

 

This all brings us to the inevitable conclusion; that the new CL format makes games mean much less for the supporters/viewers as their club has a 2 in 3 chance of advancing anyway - yet at the same time making the games mean much more for the clubs at the expense of the players  

 

 

Edited September 19 by Kaizero

[Kaizero]

11 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

This is actually a misconception. The new format adds two league games that now could actually matter for the "big clubs" who are always expected to coast through the group stages. In the previous format, those teams usually had their advancing to the next round sorted after game 4, at most after game 5 - leaving the fifth/sixth group games meaningless for them, thus allowing them to field their reserves/U21s in them, saving their best players those extra 90/180 minutes.

 

Now, however, if you don't place in the top eight - you get another extra two games to play, and these two are no longer group matches but knock-outs, meaning you can't risk fielding too many ressies/youths in your starting line-up for them. 

 

That leaves us with the much desired and obvious aim for the "top clubs" to finish in the top eight of the new CL League system, skipping those two extra matches. However, the race for top eight will be helluva lot tighter than the race for the top two spots in the old CL system where groups of four were still a thing. If one or more of the top clubs slip on a banana peel in their first 5-6 fixtures, like Barcelona did against Monaco today, suddenly the extra two games in the league end up mattering instead of being a rare exhibition match where the depth players notch a first team appearance.

 

All in all the new CL system does the exact opposite of what FIFPro and the players themselves are crying out for, which is a less congested fixture list to allow them time to recuperate completely after matches instead of playing 90+ minutes twice a week way into January, only for the "best teams" to continue playing twice a week until near the end of the season - an end of the season which will immediately be followed by the new, idiotic, FIFA Club World Cup, further exploiting the players and putting their longevity as professional footballers at risk due to fatigue related injuries and similar.

 

This all brings us to the inevitable conclusion; that the new CL format makes games mean much less for the supporters/viewers as their club has a 2 in 3 chance of advancing anyway - yet at the same time making the games mean much more for the clubs at the expense of the players  

 

This is how Man City lined up for their sixth group stage fixture against Crvena Zvezda in the 23/24 CL, having already secured their advancement to the knock-outs:

 

 

Now, however, if we get to the eight league stage fixture and Man City needs to win to escape having to play two extra matches due to not finishing in the top eight - does anyone believe they'd put out a side like that and not their first choice eleven? At the same time, for casual viewers or their fans, that final fixture will have absolutely no meaning. Man City, by either finishing just inside top eight or just outside, will already have secured their advancement in the CL before kick-off in their final group match 

 

 

Edited September 19 by Kaizero

[Nobody]

1 hour ago, RodneyCisse said:

Not loving the 3 day champions league week.

I genuinely couldn't care less about any of the CL games this week, why would anyone? Even when there was a decent upset tonight with Barcelona losing, does anyone think there's a chance that Barca won't make it through to the next round? This whole league stage is starting to feel like a bunch of glorified summer friendlies without any stakes.

I hope I'm wrong, and that come the last couple of game weeks there's some excitement, but I just don't see it happening.

But IMO, the top 8 battle isn't going to be that exciting, as the teams finishing 9-16 know they are still going through and most likely beat whoever they face in their stupid play off. Sure, they might not want that extra game, but Man City aren't risking a league game to not have an extra round of CL.

Then the fight for the last places to get to the play off will be between a bunch of teams UEFA wants me to not care about anyway, so where the hell is the excitement supposed to come from?

[Erikse]

Feel like it's made for the best teams to get second chances if they slip.. Like last year Manchester United slipped, and since the sample size was low (6 games), they couldn't make up for it. Not only do you have more games to make up for surprise losses, only 1/3 actually go out out from this stage, not 1/2 like before. Besides, just looking at that table makes me dizzy..

[Nobody]

1 hour ago, Kaizero said:

 

This is how Man City lined up for their sixth group stage fixture against Crvena Zvezda in the 23/24 CL, having already secured their advancement to the knock-outs:

 

 

Now, however, if we get to the eight league stage fixture and Man City needs to win to escape having to play two extra matches due to not finishing in the top eight - does anyone believe they'd put out a side like that and not their first choice eleven? At the same time, for casual viewers or their fans, that final fixture will have absolutely no meaning. Man City, by either finishing just inside top eight or just outside, will already have secured their advancement in the CL before kick-off in their final group match 

 

 

 

Depends so much on who they play in that last CL game and the PL games surrounding it, as well as who their rivals to finish top 8 play. If City are 10th in the CL, and play Liverpool in the next league game, the side they put out isn't much better than the one you posted IMO. 

[Kaizero]

Just now, Nobody said:

Depends so much on who they play in that last CL game and the PL games surrounding it, as well as who their rivals to finish top 8 play. If City are 10th in the CL, and play Liverpool in the next league game, the side they put out isn't much better than the one you posted IMO. 

 

Respectfully disagree. The alternative for them not going all out to finish in the top eight will be having to play an additional 180 minutes of football, somehow smashed/crammed into an already insanely stacked fixture list. Not to mention those extra 180 minutes also mean the club has to jump over an additional hurdle where they could fall over, ending their CL ambitions before we've even gotten to March.

 

Also, the matches on each side of the last group match for Man City (I know it'll likely not to be an issue for them to place in the top eight, they're just the example being used now ) would be Chelsea four days before the last group match and Arsenal three days after. If they don't advance directly to the Round of 16 by placing in the top eight, they'd also end up with a fixture congestion in February looking like this:

 

11/12th Feb - 1st Knockout

15th Feb - Newcastle United 

18/19th Feb - 2nd Knockout
22nd Feb - Liverpool

25th Feb - Tottenham
4/5th Mar - Round of 16
8th Mar - Forest
11/12 Mar - Round of 16
15th Mar - Brighton

All in all, finishing outside the top eight means that Man City would play 9 matches across 32 days, so one match essentially every third day. If they field a full strength team in the last group stage to push for a top eight finish and succeed, that changes to 7 matches across 28 days - which is still abhorrent and too many when taking the wellbeing of the players into consideration - but now its down to one match every fourth day instead, which could make all the difference against the teams currently lined up in their fixture list.

 

All that said, after actually looking through their fixtures this season... Man City finishing outside the top 8 and being required to play two extra CL games would undeniably be absolutely great news for everyone of us that doesn't want Man City winning the PL for the 5th time in a row/7nd time in eight years - not to mention great news for us given our match against them would be smack dab in the middle of their 1st Round Knockout matches  

[Abacus]

Haven't watched the CL games much if at all really this year.

 

Group stages even under the previous format weren't all that exciting, as they were always weighted towards the bigger teams from the bigger leagues.

 

Should always be a knock out where every team has a chance to go out and the minnows have a chance to go through. That's what cup football is all about, though I suppose it's not really a cup any more, hence champions league.

 

Never really was a true champions league after they expanded and expanded the number of teams that 'qualified' instead of being the actual champions.  And somehow fourth place (or now sometimes fifth if you're from a big league) became as good as a trophy.

 

Not only that, but player fatigue and therefore poorer tournaments and viewer apathy with the sheer number of games are becoming more obvious.

 

And on that note, I'll take my old fashioned opinions away.

[Nobody]

2 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Respectfully disagree. The alternative for them not going all out to finish in the top eight will be having to play an additional 180 minutes of football, somehow smashed/crammed into an already insanely stacked fixture list. Not to mention those extra 180 minutes also mean the club has to jump over an additional hurdle where they could fall over, ending their CL ambitions before we've even gotten to March.

 

Also, the matches on each side of the last group match for Man City (I know it'll likely not to be an issue for them to place in the top eight, they're just the example being used now ) would be Chelsea four days before the last group match and Arsenal three days after. If they don't advance directly to the Round of 16 by placing in the top eight, they'd also end up with a fixture congestion in February looking like this:

 

11/12th Feb - 1st Knockout

15th Feb - Newcastle United 

18/19th Feb - 2nd Knockout
22nd Feb - Liverpool

25th Feb - Tottenham
4/5th Mar - Round of 16
8th Mar - Forest
11/12 Mar - Round of 16
15th Mar - Brighton

All in all, finishing outside the top eight means that Man City would play 9 matches across 32 days, so one match essentially every third day. If they field a full strength team in the last group stage to push for a top eight finish and succeed, that changes to 7 matches across 28 days - which is still abhorrent and too many when taking the wellbeing of the players into consideration - but now its down to one match every fourth day instead, which could make all the difference against the teams currently lined up in their fixture list.

 

All that said, after actually looking through their fixtures this season... Man City finishing outside the top 8 and being required to play two extra CL games would undeniably be absolutely great news for everyone of us that doesn't want Man City winning the PL for the 5th time in a row/7nd time in eight years - not to mention great news for us given our match against them would be smack dab in the middle of their 1st Round Knockout matches  

Well, it looks like Man City this year might be a bad example then considering the fixtures. But still, they would be playing someone like Crverna Zvezda, so would massively fancy their chances. And that's before we even get to who their rivals for 8th are playing that GW, it could be a pretty much given that they will win, so whatever Man City does in this fictional scenario won't even matter (another reason why everyone playing different sides is a joke). 

And like your point previously, the problem isn't really what Man City might do, it's why the fuck should I care whether they go all out or not to win a game that ultimately will just matter whether they play another couple of games or not; the stakes there just aren't there.

[Kaizero]

Just now, Nobody said:

Well, it looks like Man City this year might be a bad example then considering the fixtures. But still, they would be playing someone like Crverna Zvezda, so would massively fancy their chances. And that's before we even get to who their rivals for 8th are playing that GW, it could be a pretty much given that they will win, so whatever Man City does in this fictional scenario won't even matter (another reason why everyone playing different sides is a joke). 

And like your point previously, the problem isn't really what Man City might do, it's why the fuck should I care whether they go all out or not to win a game that ultimately will just matter whether they play another couple of games or not; the stakes there just aren't there.

 

I actually think we're in agreement about the important parts here. The new format has completely removed any tension for most fans/casual viewers of teams that qualified for the CL proper. The "lowly" teams are happy to be there and getting to play major teams, as are their fans, they don't expect to go through and even finishing in the bottom eight sees them get to enter the Europa League, which is a tournament that's likely to be more on their level. All in all, this means the CL league stage will include no form of tension/hope for fans of those teams, they'll just be waiting to find out who they'll play in the EL knock-outs where there'll likely be some tension returning to the matchgoing/viewing experience.

 

Then you have the mid-range teams, they'll either be a surprise stand-out finishing top eight or they'll advance by finishing in the middle of the "league". They'll go through regardless, so no tension for fans/casual match viewers through the CL league stage for those clubs either.

 

Then there's the "elite" teams. They'll breeze through this idiotic format and finish top eight, be that all of them or one or two of them slipping up and having to play those two extra matches. No tension for anyone watching them either.

 

The entire CL League format is devoid of tension, passion, excitement and maybe worst of all - it's blatantly set up the way it is to make it almost impossible to witness an underdog story where one of the worst teams (on paper) that have qualified for the tournament proper manages to put together a streak of wins that sees them qualify for the knockout stage. Those two extra "league" fixtures are there solely for the reason of being the death knell of all underdogs hope of reaching the knockouts ever again.

 

The group stage format after the revamps UEFA did a few seasons ago where the group stage draw essentially got rigged by overly relying on the seeding system to ensure each group would consist of two major clubs and two mediocre/shit (by CL standards) clubs had already fucked up the CL grotesquely. I swear, football as we know it is getting closer and closer to getting completely ruined for the fans.

[cubaricho]