Anthony Gordon

[Gottlob]

I agree with Yorkie and AyeDubbleYoo. Gordon is a gobshite who presents as an intellect, but thankfully the likes of Kid Icarus will be around to cut him down to size.

[Smal]

25 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

He does talk a lot does Gordon, mind. I respect the confidence and it's clearly an asset because he's fiercely determined to turn it into performances, but he's got a fair bit to prove still after one brilliant season. Dearly hope his head hasn't been too turned because he's got everything he needs at this club to improve as a player. 

he owes Howe a lot. His career would be nowt without him. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

39 minutes ago, Gottlob said:

I agree with Yorkie and AyeDubbleYoo. Gordon is a gobshite who presents as an intellect, but thankfully the likes of Kid Icarus will be around to cut him down to size.

That’s not what I said

[80]

1 hour ago, Gottlob said:

I agree with Yorkie and AyeDubbleYoo. Gordon is a gobshite who presents as an intellect, but thankfully the likes of Kid Icarus will be around to cut him down to size.

[Kid Icarus]

2 hours ago, Gottlob said:

I agree with Yorkie and AyeDubbleYoo. Gordon is a gobshite who presents as an intellect, but thankfully the likes of Kid Icarus will be around to cut him down to size.

 It was Ian W for a start, but that's also not what he said.

 

 

Edited September 8 by Kid Icarus

[Yorkie]

 Good craic. Fwiw I think incredibly highly of Gordon and want him to become a legend here; the rumours about him leaving in the summer were hideous and I didn't expect them. Just saying he's gonna look a bit daft if his performances don't match his words. 

 

One thing is for sure is that Southgate was a bloody fool for not using him in Germany. Absolutely ludicrous. We need the England manager to be pro-Gordon, tbh.

[80]

10 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

One thing is for sure is that Southgate was a bloody fool for not using him in Germany. Absolutely ludicrous. We need the England manager to be pro-Gordon, tbh.

This bit, definitely. Think we'll really benefit from this week.

[The College Dropout]

7 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Yeah, we tend to take issue with people who let everyone know that they think very highly of themselves.

 

One of the best things about Britain imo.

 

 

 

It’s a loser mentality that reinforces the status quo.  Also encourages anti-intellectualism.  In our society but 100% in football.  
 

Rafa said it about English football. Whilst at Liverpool He suggested a 10k run the day before a game and the lads immediately went off to run. He said in Spain the players wouldve pushed back because running 10k the day before a game is insane.   
 

7 hours ago, TRon said:

 

I know what you are saying, he doesn't have the tricks in the box you would get from someone like Ben Arfa or Maxi, but I think that can also be seen as a strength. He's very direct and doesn't waste time with stepovers and other showboating, probably well appreciated by team mates.

He also just doesn’t beat his man very often for a winger of his calibre.  Trick or no trick. 

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

It’s a loser mentality that reinforces the status quo.  Also encourages anti-intellectualism.  In our society but 100% in football.  
 

Rafa said it about English football. Whilst at Liverpool He suggested a 10k run the day before a game and the lads immediately went off to run. He said in Spain the players wouldve pushed back because running 10k the day before a game is insane.   
 

He also just doesn’t beat his man very often for a winger of his calibre.  Trick or no trick. 

It’s also the mentality which protects from extremism.  The ingrained ‘oh come off it’ which sits in the British psyche is often a strength, not a weakness.

 

Gordon being a bit self-aggrandising is hardly intellectualism, and creates a pressure to perform.  Great if you’re genuinely a player who can just turn it on week after week - as in truly world class - but Gordon isn’t that, and he isn’t pulling up many trees at the moment.  Not saying he isn’t a good player - he is - but actions speak much louder than words in football.  

[The College Dropout]

He’s an elite level professional athlete tbf.  
 

We still see Premier League footballers as fairly talented boys. If he was a lawyer, he’d be one of the best what 500 in the world? In his specialism he’s top 10 in the country where the level is v. high. 
 

If he was in any other professional field - this is how mid level professionals would talk as de rigueur

[Sibierski]

On 08/09/2024 at 00:18, LFEE said:

This. Did canny. Nothing great. Never feel confident when he’s 1v1.

 

It’s the one part of his game he has to increase in quality this season, better care with the finishing. Since he’s joined, his decision making with and without the ball has improved loads, picks the right options so often now, but it’s the finishing that lets him down.

 

Too often it’s tame efforts that are more often hit the target, rather than any conviction. He’s got Isak in training who’s the opposite, so you’d hope over season he works and works on that side and he improves. Because he can be 15+ wide man. 

 

 

Edited September 9 by Sibierski

[Lush Vlad]

1 hour ago, Sibierski said:

 

It’s the one part of his game he has to increase in quality this season, better care with the finishing. Since he’s joined, his decision making with and without the ball has improved loads, picks the right options so often now, but it’s the finishing that lets him down.

 

Too often it’s tame efforts that are more often hit the target, rather than any conviction. He’s got Isak in training who’s the opposite, so you’d hope over season he works and works on that side and he improves. Because he can be 15+ wide man. 

 

 

 

 

Missed the first 5-10 minutes of the Ireland game and so I only just saw Rice's goal this morning.  First thing I thought of was the above when watching the passage of play back.  Seems harsh with how many goals he got last season.  But he really could improve his 1 on 1 finishing and he'd then kick onto that elite level.  Certainly in agreement that he often goes for a 'safe' finish and just wants to hit the target.  Can't remember many goals where he's gone for height or something a bit cute like a dink or trying to round the keeper.  

 

I get he can work on it, still.  But I'm not convinced it is something you can get really good at just through training.  I think it is a mindset thing and how calm and confident you are in those situations.  

 

I saw that Suarez goal v PSG doing the rounds again the other day in Twitter.  That is just disgusting levels of self-belief.  The skill to get there and then putting it top bin for no reason whatsoever

If Gordon could get anywhere near that level of self-belief when finishing.  Then you're looking at a possible world beater. 

[TRon]

14 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

 

He also just doesn’t beat his man very often for a winger of his calibre.  Trick or no trick. 

 

He doesn't, he tends to cut inside a lot, but he does it to good effect. He is probably getting overrated slightly by Newcastle fans when you compare his skillset to the really top wide men, but in the PL he's still a very good wide man. But I do think we need to look at getting him to sign a new contract or selling him while he's at maximum value if he's reluctant to do so.

[PauloGeordio]

Why England are a better team with Anthony Gordon in than Phil Foden

 

 

Bit of a read. Summary: last line 

 

Anthony Gordon was damningly clear in his assessment of England’s Euro 2024.

“Failure — because we lost,” he told ITV. There were no hesitations to the follow-up: what were England missing?

“Expression of freedom. You could say we controlled the games, but I don’t think we were very dynamic; we weren’t relentlessly trying to score”.

 

Gordon could, justifiably, be accused of sour grapes. He started every game on the bench and Gareth Southgate only brought him off it once, as an 89th-minute substitute for Phil Foden in the final group-stage game — a 0-0 draw against Slovenia.

 

His point was analytical more than emotional. England only created six big chances in seven games, with nine countries bettering that. Spain, who created 25, beat England 2-1 in the final.

Spain won the game through dynamic, dribbling wingers who ran in-behind. For the opener, Lamine Yamal and Nico Williamscombined for the latter to score from 10 yards out. England needed a Cole Palmerfinish from outside the box.

Fast forward 55 days from the final and England are in Ireland for their first game since the Euros and Southgate’s resignation. Gordon is given only his second start and fifth cap total.

 

Foden, along with Palmer and Ollie Watkins, withdrew from the squad. There will come a time where Lee Carsley, interim head coach, has a selection headache. This time, England were dynamic and relentlessly trying to score goals — for the first half, at least.

“We’ve tried to get three or four different ways of playing,” Carsley said pre-match. “We have to play to players’ strengths. It’s not about my style or way of playing.”

 

Inside the first minute, Trent Alexander-Arnold, who had rolled into midfield from right-back, hit a long, diagonal pass to Gordon. Ireland had committed to press, with right wing-back Matt Doherty stepping up to mark No 8 Jack Grealish.

Gordon stayed high and wide, exploiting Doherty’s position. The move only broke down as he miscontrolled Alexander-Arnold’s pass and the ball hit his arm.

Those passes continued throughout the opening 45 minutes. On one occasion, again when Doherty jumped to Grealish, left centre-back Harry Maguire released Gordon — he dribbled inside then out and fired a cross which was overhit.

The end product needed work, but Alexander-Arnold collected the loose ball and found Harry Kane with a cross.

Alexander-Arnold to Gordon was the key pass in England’s opener. Another long, raking ball from a central position was hit in-behind the Irish defence. Gordon arced his run inside Doherty and took a smart, heavy first touch to run through to goal and take the line of Nathan Collins as he recovered.

 

Left with just the goalkeeper to beat, Gordon should have scored, but his finish was low and central, allowing Caoimhin Kelleher to keep it out with his feet. Gordon picked up the loose ball and found Kane with a cutback. When his shot was blocked, Declan Rice followed up to fire in.

With Levi Colwill, left-back on paper but tucking in to play as a third centre-back and give cover, Gordon had full licence to switch positions with Grealish and run in-behind.

England had the left-sided balance that they dreamed of in Germany, when Kieran Trippier (right-footed) was a makeshift left-back and Foden played more as a second No 10 than left-winger.

Foden might be one of the finest English technical players ever, especially in what Pep Guardiola calls the “pockets”, and he has matched or improved his Premier League goals plus assists tally in each of the past four seasons.

 

In 2023-24, he scored 19 Premier League goals and assisted eight, winning the Premier League Player of the Year award. Cole Palmer was the only Englishman involved in more goals. And yet, England are a better team with Gordon in than Foden.

In fact, Foden has only scored four times in 41 caps, and just once since the 2022 World Cup. He is the best of the profile that England have in abundance: a ball-to-feet No 10 who can receive and dribble under pressure, and shoot from distance.

 

Against compact opposition blocks, and back-fives especially, solutions have to come from out wide. England had 76 per cent possession against Ireland.

Games like that offer limited space for a Foden profile, especially when England have a team built around Jude Bellingham and Harry Kane, a No 9 who has built his game on dropping in.

Gordon told ITV that his liking to run in-behind when Kane drops in means teams have to “pick their poison (as to) what way they want to defend. We created a lot of chances from it.”

Even though Carsley gave considerate positional freedom, Gordon said “we’re always trying to score, so we don’t want everyone coming to the ball. That’s my role and Bukayo’s (Saka) role — to stretch them and cause danger in-behind”.

 

Foden’s touches at the Euros primarily came out wide and in deeper positions. Trippier, wanting to cut back on to his right foot, was of limited threat on the overlap, so teams marked Foden more tightly when he moved centrally.

Gordon is a completely different profile. Of England’s starters against Ireland, only Kane (27) had fewer touches than Gordon (41). The Newcastle winger didn’t attempt a dribble.

He benefited from Doherty’s positioning and the chance to run at Seamus Coleman, which was a mismatch for pace, but Coleman spent years training against Gordon when they were at Everton together. Few players will have defended against him as much.

Yet neither Coleman nor Ireland could stop him. There was a four-v-two counter-attack, from an Ireland direct free kick, where Gordon found Kane with a cutback, but his shot was saved.

 

There was one moment that captured Gordon’s tactical maturation perfectly. He pressed Coleman into a rushed pass, which hit Kane, and England won the ball in their own half. Gordon made an early, arced run inside Coleman in the hope that Saka would play a through ball.

When that pass did not come, he stayed central and England built their way up the pitch, eventually finding Gordon through Kane, though his shot was blocked.

 

If the counter-argument is Ireland’s 58th-place FIFA ranking, then that falls apart based on the quality of England’s Euros opposition.

They beat Serbia (32nd) 1-0 on matchday one, drew 0-0 versus Slovenia (52nd) on matchday three and needed extra time to beat Slovakia (44th) in the round of 16. England had six big chances in Dublin, as many as Euro 2024 entirely.

There are myriad reasons to justify Gordon’s inclusion as a starter, even if he can be impactful from the bench.

Marcus Rashford and Raheem Sterling, England’s main left-side individualistic wingers under Southgate, have struggled for fitness and form and did not make the Euros squad. It is a profile England have never had many of.

He did not hit Foden-level numbers, but 2023-24 was a breakout season for Gordon, who join Newcastle from Everton in January 2023. Gordon scored 11 Premier League goals and set up 10 more — one of only five players with double digits in goals and assists.

Finally, there is the importance of the coach-player relationship. Gordon was player of the tournament last summer when England Under-21s, managed by Carsley, won the Euros. Gordon played as a false nine and scored three times.

England need more of Gordon.

 

[Menace]

I could've told you that without writing 3000 words. Foden is shite for England, simple really.

[buzza]

It seems clear to all the pundits that we need width and pace on the left and a left footed left back to complement the winger, it is now Gordon´s to lose but who will get in as left back?

Also, the Foden and Bellingham conundrum; who do they displace when they come back? bellingham as a partner for rice as a double pivot? foden for grealish or bellingham for grealish?

These are the bid picks Carsley will have to remedy.

 

I would rather bellingham next to Rice in more of an eight or double pivot role, each knowing when to hold or when to push up. Foden would come on for grealish as a Nº10 as I liked how grealish played and switched with the wingers well...

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 hour ago, Menace said:

I could've told you that without writing 3000 words. Foden is shite for England, simple really.

 

Yeah, but we all know (except Gareth) that Foden isn't his best on the left, especially alongside a forward like Kane who likes to drop deep. And a player like Bellingham also being told to occupy the same space. 

[Upthemags]

16 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

He’s an elite level professional athlete tbf.  
 

We still see Premier League footballers as fairly talented boys. If he was a lawyer, he’d be one of the best what 500 in the world? In his specialism he’s top 10 in the country where the level is v. high. 
 

If he was in any other professional field - this is how mid level professionals would talk as de rigueur

Yea I have no problems with Gordon fashioning his self-confidence in the style of, say, an elite American athlete. I can see it bristling against British modesty, but I don't think modesty is top of the list for Newcastle or our owners post PIF takeover.

 

If anything, Gordon is emblematic of who we are, and who we want to be - brash, the best, disruptors. Remember Mandy's crack? We'll be number one in the world?

 

Hardly modest, hardly polite. Personally, I like the bully / shithousing attitude that characterized our 22/23 season. We had an attitude about us that we'd do well to recapture, and that Gordon does well to encapsulate. (See my profile picture.)

[SUPERTOON]

Starts again tonight according to the media, excellent news for us as well. He’s going to be back to his best on Sunday.

[Dr. TC]

9 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Starts again tonight according to the media, excellent news for us as well. He’s going to be back to his best on Sunday.

But somehow Tonali will be too tired to start

[Ikon]

2 hours ago, Dr. TC said:

But somehow Tonali will be too tired to start

Aye, Tonali will be fresh and should start. No two ways about it. 

[Lush Vlad]

23 hours ago, Upthemags said:

Remember Mandy's crack? 

[Holmesy]

On 09/09/2024 at 11:55, Menace said:

I could've told you that without writing 3000 words. Foden is shite for England, simple really.

I think that's a bit too simplistic. Foden has been played on the right wing and the left wing by a shite England manager. He has to adapt his game more when he plays for England because every manager is going to be a step down from Pep but he's hardly been given a fair crack of the whip. Southgate didn't have a fucking clue what to do with him or half our other attacking players for that matter. 

[Kanj]

On 09/09/2024 at 09:08, Upthemags said:

Yea I have no problems with Gordon fashioning his self-confidence in the style of, say, an elite American athlete. I can see it bristling against British modesty, but I don't think modesty is top of the list for Newcastle or our owners post PIF takeover.

 

If anything, Gordon is emblematic of who we are, and who we want to be - brash, the best, disruptors. Remember Mandy's crack? We'll be number one in the world?

 

Hardly modest, hardly polite. Personally, I like the bully / shithousing attitude that characterized our 22/23 season. We had an attitude about us that we'd do well to recapture, and that Gordon does well to encapsulate. (See my profile picture.)

Gordon’s demeanor, and how he speaks is very akin to an elite American athlete. It’s no surprise he follows a ton of American sport (watch or read his interviews). It’s a self belief and hunger. He may not have had the James Milner media training, or the carefree Cole Palmer style; he’s indeed a different human being. Rather then pigeon hole every young British athlete just celebrate the individuality. You don’t want humans not being themselves, particularly one who is literally only cutting down the former manager who slighted him and benched him after the entire European press / British press wondered why he wasn’t starting and asked about it every single week. 

[Kanj]

^tl;dr it isn’t that serious. I get the sense the entire huff and puff with AG was him being so fucking angry he didn’t get a chance to show himself at the euros and having genuine depression over it and he looks more himself in the England appearance than he did for us so far this season. I suspect we’ll see our AG we love this Sunday.