Match Atmosphere

[PCW1983]

There’s no system that will satisfy all groups of supporters. 
 

Scrap the lot and put all the tickets in a proportioned ballot for season ticket holders and members. 
 

People are going to pass tickets on regardless. 
 

The “loyalty point” system is broken, it’s been abused for many years now and to some degree became a closed shop for a large proportion of tickets with many handing over use of their tickets to individuals and bus runners for years, imagine some of the friends and family setups people have online. 

[LFEE]

18 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

Fair enough but this is the perception of many at the minute in the first reply.

 

 

 

What can I say to comments like that ?

 

 

[SteV]

13 minutes ago, PCW1983 said:

There’s no system that will satisfy all groups of supporters. 
 

Scrap the lot and put all the tickets in a proportioned ballot for season ticket holders and members. 
 

People are going to pass tickets on regardless. 
 

The “loyalty point” system is broken, it’s been abused for many years now and to some degree became a closed shop for a large proportion of tickets with many handing over use of their tickets to individuals and bus runners for years, imagine some of the friends and family setups people have online. 

You would tell someone that’s been going to every away for 10, 20, 30 years - “sorry mate, I’m afraid it’s luck of the draw whether you get to go now, as more people want to go now we’re good” ?

[PCW1983]

7 minutes ago, SteV said:

You would tell someone that’s been going to every away for 10, 20, 30 years - “sorry mate, I’m afraid it’s luck of the draw whether you get to go now, as more people want to go now we’re good” ?

Yeah, I would. 
 

But you’re angling the question how you wish to be viewed. 
 

it’s not a case of “we’re good”. 
 

 

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by PCW1983

[Guest]

If they've just been getting in because of who they know, definitely. 

[SteV]

7 minutes ago, PCW1983 said:

Yeah, I would. 
 

But you’re angling the question how you wish to be viewed. 
 

it’s not a case of “we’re good”. 
 

 

 

 

 

It is too a large extent though. 
 

More people (not every single person that never went before) want to go now because we’re more like to win, and it’s usually a lot more fun when you win.

 

This isn’t unique to us by the way. It would be exactly the same at every other club.

[SteV]

10 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

If they've just been getting in because of who they know, definitely. 

OK, but you don’t need to resort to the original suggestion to prevent that.

[PCW1983]

5 minutes ago, SteV said:

It is too a large extent though. 
 

More people (not every single person that never went before) want to go now because we’re more like to win, and it’s usually a lot more fun when you win.

 

This isn’t unique to us by the way. It would be exactly the same at every other club.

I think there are multiple scenarios of why the demand has increased, not just about the winning but I agree that’s definitely a reason. 
 

I’ve been to around 80 away games both in Europe and domestic and my experience is that the handing off of tickets is absolutely rife and not just in the innocent twitter post that’s doing the rounds. 
Theres a protectionism amongst fans that want to hold the option to get a ticket despite going to 1-5 select games a season therefore they’ve sold tickets on at face value or below for years just to get the point. 
For as many “new” fans who want to attend there’ll also “the new old” fans who have points from years gone by or gathered by selling on that have decided to start attending for themselves (ask any of the normal travel groups). 
 

 

 

[GeordieT]

One suspects we are only a couple of years at most from digital tickets at all Premier League grounds - which will only serve to exacerbate many of the issues being described.

 

The system and checks that have been implemented I think are fair, but could perhaps be amended to include the ability to [for one or two games a year maximum] forward a ticket, as with season tickets. But capped at that level to prevent abuse.

[Wallsendmag]

2 hours ago, Lush Vlad said:

I might be wrong. But wasn’t it NUST/the TF lot that were moaning about the away tickets and it not being ‘fair’? 

 

Yeah I think it was them who argued for a change in ticket distribution. Certainly thats the general consensus. It's gone down like a lead balloon tbh but I'm sure it suits some of them which is what they'll view as important.

[Keegans Export]

41 minutes ago, SteV said:

You would tell someone that’s been going to every away for 10, 20, 30 years - “sorry mate, I’m afraid it’s luck of the draw whether you get to go now, as more people want to go now we’re good” ?

Unfortunately I'd say that there are two people in that scenario that have been working the system for a number of years - the original ticket holder who has been artificially increasing their own "loyalty" points tally, and the new ticket holder who has managed to go to every away game despite not having any themselves - and as is often the case, the crows are coming home to roost.

 

It sounds harsh, in fact it probably is harsh, but I'm struggling to find another way around this issue of people hording "loyalty" points and the fact that away games were/are essentially a lock-out under the previous system.

[SteV]

19 minutes ago, PCW1983 said:

I think there are multiple scenarios of why the demand has increased, not just about the winning but I agree that’s definitely a reason. 
 

I’ve been to around 80 away games both in Europe and domestic and my experience is that the handing off of tickets is absolutely rife and not just in the innocent twitter post that’s doing the rounds. 
Theres a protectionism amongst fans that want to hold the option to get a ticket despite going to 1-5 select games a season therefore they’ve sold tickets on at face value or below for years just to get the point. 
For as many “new” fans who want to attend there’ll also “the new old” fans who have points from years gone by or gathered by selling on that have decided to start attending for themselves (ask any of the normal travel groups). 
 

 

 

Yeah, I’m not disputing those scenarios exist, the reduction in the points requirement for the Man City and Brighton, is evidence enough of that.

 

But surely the answer to that isn’t taking away from some people something which is an absolute pivotal part of their life?

[SteV]

12 minutes ago, Keegans Export said:

Unfortunately I'd say that there are two people in that scenario that have been working the system for a number of years - the original ticket holder who has been artificially increasing their own "loyalty" points tally, and the new ticket holder who has managed to go to every away game despite not having any themselves - and as is often the case, the crows are coming home to roost.

 

It sounds harsh, in fact it probably is harsh, but I'm struggling to find another way around this issue of people hording "loyalty" points and the fact that away games were/are essentially a lock-out under the previous system.

Indeed, and for all the rights or wrongs of the ‘new’ initiative that was implemented last night, it is largely going to put a stop to that.

[huss9]

the people that piss me off are the ones that never travel but rake in money selling their away tickets and accumulate loyalty points.

so any cup finals etc, they're at the front of the queue.

[SteV]

20 minutes ago, GeordieT said:

One suspects we are only a couple of years at most from digital tickets at all Premier League grounds - which will only serve to exacerbate many of the issues being described.

 

The system and checks that have been implemented I think are fair, but could perhaps be amended to include the ability to [for one or two games a year maximum] forward a ticket, as with season tickets. But capped at that level to prevent abuse.

Absolutely.
 

This feels like the middle ground to me. And hopefully when fully digital ticketing gets implemented across all clubs at some point in the future, we’ll find it.

[PCW1983]

5 minutes ago, SteV said:

Yeah, I’m not disputing those scenarios exist, the reduction in the points requirement for the Man City and Brighton, is evidence enough of that.

 

But surely the answer to that isn’t taking away from some people something which is an absolute pivotal part of their life?

No, personally I wouldn’t want to affect that group of people…I can’t give an answer to that question. 
 

I think some clubs remove a proportion of loyalty points each season?  Do that along with the current checks and it could protect the genuine regular attendees? 
 

 

[SteV]

4 minutes ago, PCW1983 said:

No, personally I wouldn’t want to affect that group of people…I can’t give an answer to that question. 
 

I think some clubs remove a proportion of loyalty points each season?  Do that along with the current checks and it could protect the genuine regular attendees? 
 

 

Yeah, some clubs have ‘rolling’ 3/5 year totals, where a year just keeps dropping off. Think the mackems might actually do it?

 

There’s pros and cons to that as well like.

 

But we all know there isn’t really ‘correct’ solution, almost a case of trying to pick the best worst one.

[Whitley mag]

33 minutes ago, GeordieT said:

One suspects we are only a couple of years at most from digital tickets at all Premier League grounds - which will only serve to exacerbate many of the issues being described.

 

The system and checks that have been implemented I think are fair, but could perhaps be amended to include the ability to [for one or two games a year maximum] forward a ticket, as with season tickets. But capped at that level to prevent abuse.

There should absolutely be some forwarding allowed for aways, nothing worse than someone unable to make it last minute and the seat goes empty.

 

I agree a limit would stop any continual abuse but protect genuine cases.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Whitley mag

[Vedder]

5 minutes ago, SteV said:

Yeah, some clubs have ‘rolling’ 3/5 year totals, where a year just keeps dropping off. Think the mackems might actually do it?

 

There’s pros and cons to that as well like.

 

But we all know there isn’t really ‘correct’ solution, almost a case of trying to pick the best worst one.

Honest question, what would be the cons to this system, say over a rolling 7 year period? 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Whitley mag said:

There should absolutely be some forwarding allowed for aways, nothing worse than someone unable to make it last minute and the seat goes empty.

 

I agree a limit would stop any continual abuse but protect genuine cases.

 

 

 

 

Would a resale through the official site not work? Pretty sure you'd still get it snapped up with late notice, particularly now it's digital. 

[Bellis80]

13 minutes ago, huss9 said:

the people that piss me off are the ones that never travel but rake in money selling their away tickets and accumulate loyalty points.

so any cup finals etc, they're at the front of the queue.

I’ve never heard of anyone paying over the top for an away ticket and once you get past about 130 points it makes no difference having any more. So why would anyone continue to accumulate points beyond that? We’ve been to one cup final in 20 odd years and only needed 25 loyalty points. I doubt that’s why anyone would have done what you’re saying.

 

I don’t know how much they charge for the buses, so they could make money like that, but could barely give away a ticket for some games in the last 15 years so can’t imagine it’s a major factor.

[Danh1]

20 minutes ago, huss9 said:

the people that piss me off are the ones that never travel but rake in money selling their away tickets and accumulate loyalty points.

so any cup finals etc, they're at the front of the queue.

This is always noticeable at away derbies. Always the same crowd.

[SteV]

2 minutes ago, Vedder said:

Honest question, what would be the cons to this system, say over a rolling 7 year period? 

The complaints you would get would be from someone who lets say, went to every game from 2010-2016, amassed ~150 points.

 

They’ve been going since, but at a much reduced rate (and not selling on or anything). They go from having ~170 points to having <20 points.

 

They’ll feel pissed off, and claim that the club don’t care about ‘legacy’ supporters. 
 

Others will say it’s fine, and those that go here and now should be at the top of priority list.

[El Prontonise]

You need loyalty points to expire at some point, what that threshold should be will be open to much debate.

[Heron]

For me the loyalty points should be a weighted system whereby both members and season ticket holders were on the same scheme.

 

Season Ticket: 5

Away Ticket: 3

Cup Ticket: 2

Friendlies: 1

 

A season ticket is the largest financial contribution to the club and it includes attending the most matches. Away games the most expensive for the individual and the most time consuming.

 

Means folk with high loyalty points now maintain their 'status' and aren't 'out of pocket' but also means folk who attend the friendlies and don't have season tickets can ultimately apply for and get to away games. You could even argue that members with more loyalty points should be higher up the queue should they wish to obtain a season ticket too.

 

All makes absolute sense to me and don't really see any drawbacks other than it not being too dissimilar to the previous set up.