TheDarkKnight Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 2 hours ago, sushimonster85 said: Without wanting to get into the pros and cons (for the record I don't think he'd be a great signing but I also don't think we will sign him) of Scott McTominay, it's totally normal for the opposition forward to block off the passing lane to the deeper CM to prevent a team transitioning through the centre. If you look in that video you can see the attacker glance over his shoulder at times to check where McTominay is. This happens to Bruno constantly. Watch when the ball is with Botman or Schar. Bruno is either totally cut off, or has a guy right on his arse anticipating the ball coming into him. Should McTominay's movement be better to try and make himself available to receive the ball? Yep, but I'm pretty sure that's more down to him being a bit shit rather than him actually 'hiding'. Exactly. I said that earlier. It's a counter-pressing technique. It prevents the player with the ball being closed down. But what do professional footballers and trained coaches know about the nuances of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greydos Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 26/03/2023 at 17:01, STM said: Don't be this guy. McTominay wouldnt have been someone I would have targeted but we have real football people at the top of our club now. I'd imagine if I was sitting in a room with Ashworth and Howe and asked them why we wanted McTominay, they would have a 20 minute presentation prepared, which would go into good detail the reasons why they think he's a good signing. It's not entirely obvious the reasons why we are looking at him but it's probably something to do with: Nationality Pedigree Price Age Physical ability Experience Versatility Personality And while one might argue that 20/30m is too much for McTominay. Its high time we realised that 20/30m is no longer big money for a top 8 midfielder, who could serve the club for 7/8 years and if we did decide to move him on, might get 50% of that back. Also, I'm 100% convinced we go big this summer. If McTominay is followed by a Maddison etc, it might look decent business. That’s the same list of criterion I’d use to decide the top Labrador at Crufts! McDomino is a dog of a player to be fair! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Bloody hell, that twitter post saying “don’t trust Howe and Tindall”. Makes you wonder why the fuck some people follow football Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoneys Tache Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Joel was the worst striker for us since rivière. Now look. I suspect there may be a plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: If a player hides from the ball it would surely reflect on their average touches per match. McTominay got just as touches of the ball as Fred, last season. That in itself debunks the "hides from the ball" rhetoric. Fred? The player who is regularly derided by both pundits and fans nearly every single week? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Just now, Manxst said: Fred? The player who is regularly derided by both pundits and fans nearly every single week? Whilst playing for Manchester United and Brazil… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, SteV said: Whilst playing for Manchester United and Brazil… And? Every player must be amazing and world class? Nearly every fan on here doesn’t want McTominay. I’d also take Bruno (who isn’t playing for Brazil at the moment) over Fred any day of the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, gbandit said: Bloody hell, that twitter post saying “don’t trust Howe and Tindall”. Makes you wonder why the fuck some people follow football Can you just imagine being Howe and taking over the club in the bottom three, and within a year having them in the best position to finish top 4 , and having got into a cup final, and you stumble on that abomination of a tweet. Imagine transforming Joelinton and Almiron to the extent he has within a year and seeing that post by some brain dead fan that thinks he knows better about what player Howe should buy for his own team. Don't know why fans like that don't just go and support Man City or Chelsea, all they long for are the kind of spending sprees those clubs go on. It's funny because Chelsea in January brought in Mudryk, Enzo, Madueke and Badiashile ... a good number of Football Manager favourites and are still complete shite. Mudryk and Madueke can't even get into the team. Most football 'fans' are the absolute worst. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Manxst said: And? Every player must be amazing and world class? Nearly every fan on here doesn’t want McTominay. I’d also take Bruno (who isn’t playing for Brazil at the moment) over Fred any day of the week. And - it’s more a point about how the view that Fred (and more pertinently McTominay) are viewed as some kind of joke players, ‘Championship standard’, or whatever people want to trot out to support the argument. It’s a perfectly acceptable opinion to hold that McTominay isn’t worth the investment at the rumoured prices, that he isn’t much/any better than what we have already. But let’s not be silly, he can’t have got to where he’s got in his career if he was useless. Edited March 27, 2023 by SteV Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxst Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, SteV said: And - it’s more a point about how the view that Fred (and more pertinently McTominay) are viewed as some kind of joke players, ‘Championship standard’, or whatever people want to trot out to support there argument. It’s a perfectly acceptable opinion to hold that McTominay isn’t worth the investment at the rumoured prices, that he isn’t much/any better than what we have already. But let’s not be silly, he can’t have got to where he’s got in his career if he was useless. Agreed. But I think the general consensus is that our club should be looking at signing players to take us to the ‘next level’ rather than a ‘squad filler’ like McTominay seems to be. Especially for the price he’d undoubtedly cost from a current rival. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, Manxst said: Agreed. But I think the general consensus is that our club should be looking at signing players to take us to the ‘next level’ rather than a ‘squad filler’ like McTominay seems to be. Especially for the price he’d undoubtedly cost from a current rival. Most fans have no idea of what player it takes to get to the 'next level', but my God the way they go on about it man. Howe has already taken us up several levels with a squad that has no depth and has made use of a number of players that most were ridiculing and wanted shipped out. At this point it's just embarrassing honestly. Yet again folks will just be made to look daft once next season rolls around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteV Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 25 minutes ago, Manxst said: Agreed. But I think the general consensus is that our club should be looking at signing players to take us to the ‘next level’ rather than a ‘squad filler’ like McTominay seems to be. Especially for the price he’d undoubtedly cost from a current rival. There’s definitely a question mark in relation to the potential price, albeit we don’t actually know what that is/would be. But putting that to one side, we do have to refresh the entire squad to a degree with the likelihood of Europe next year. We’re not going to replace the likes of Dummett and Fraser with the quality of Bruno and Botman, so there will be a need for a signing or two below that level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkKnight Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Manxst said: Fred? The player who is regularly derided by both pundits and fans nearly every single week? I remember a certain Almirón being derided and mocked, even by Jack Grealish. Almirón has been superb this season. As it's been said, unfashionable players can contribute more than big name stars. Fred and McTominay may be unfashionable, etc, but they both give their heart for the badge. Unlike Workd Cup winner and World class midfielder Paul Pogba who gave nothing and contributed zero. No one would claim that Jordan Henderson was world class, but without him, Liverpool would not have won the trophies they have won under Klopp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said: I remember a certain Almirón being derided and mocked, even by Jack Grealish. Almirón has been superb this season. As it's been said, unfashionable players can contribute more than big name stars. Fred and McTominay may be unfashionable, etc, but they both give their heart for the badge. Unlike Workd Cup winner and World class midfielder Paul Pogba who gave nothing and contributed zero. No one would claim that Jordan Henderson was world class, but without him, Liverpool would not have won the trophies they have won under Klopp. It's all relative to the style of football being played by the manager too, which is what most can't seem to understand. ten Hag leans towards more of the Pep style of more intricate possession heavy football, and so the likes of McTominay and even Fred aren't going to be as good a fit longer term. Howe seems to lean towards more of the Klopp approach with very intense pressing and dynamic transition play, and so players like McTominay and Fred are a better fit, the same way Henderson was for Klopp. Henderson would never have been the type of midfielder Pep would have gone for. Like you said though, he has ended up captaining that Liverpool side to both a Prem title and Champions League title under Klopp. It's almost as though there are different ways to play the game, which make use of different types of players. But no ... ten Hag doesn't want him so he must be a shit cast off that is League 1 standard. Cringeworthy stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkKnight Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, KaKa said: It's all relative to the style of football being played by the manager too, which is what most can't seem to understand. ten Hag leans towards more of the Pep style of more intricate possession heavy football, and so the likes of McTominay and even Fred aren't going to be as good a fit longer term. Howe seems to lean towards more of the Klopp approach with very intense pressing and dynamic transition play, and so players like McTominay and Fred are a better fit, the same way Henderson was for Klopp. Henderson would never have been the type of midfielder Pep would have gone for. Like you said though, he has ended up captaining that Liverpool side to both a Prem title and Champions League title under Klopp. It's almost as though there are different ways to play the game, which make use of different types of players. But no ... ten Hag doesn't want him so he must be a shit cast off that is League 1 standard. Cringeworthy stuff. Totally. And also, ten Hag doesn't want to sell McTominay. That adds another nuance to the detractors. Norwich fans have said that Billy Gilmour is a League 2 player, just because he didn't come in and play like peak Zidane. Forgetting for a second that he was 20 years old and never had a season of regular football under his belt. (They said the same about a certain Harry Kane. Wonder what happened to him...) (Also, from a neutral who watched a lot of Norwich matches last season, he was their best midfielder) Howe has proven himself. He deserves trust from the Newcastle fans. Edited March 28, 2023 by TheDarkKnight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiseman Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 McTominay was never going to be anyone's first choice signing for us, but if that's who the club wants, there has to be a reason behind it, and after the last 18months, they've want enough goodwill that we should trust their reason. End of the day, our squad is so thin at the moment, even if he ends up being a bench player, he's better then other options we have to bring on at the moment so the increase in quality of the depth of our squad is still a positive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 13 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said: I remember a certain Almirón being derided and mocked, even by Jack Grealish. Almirón has been superb this season. As it's been said, unfashionable players can contribute more than big name stars. Fred and McTominay may be unfashionable, etc, but they both give their heart for the badge. Unlike Workd Cup winner and World class midfielder Paul Pogba who gave nothing and contributed zero. No one would claim that Jordan Henderson was world class, but without him, Liverpool would not have won the trophies they have won under Klopp. So you'd be very unhappy with McTominay leaving? Being such a quality player and all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 14 hours ago, KaKa said: Most fans have no idea of what player it takes to get to the 'next level', but my God the way they go on about it man. Howe has already taken us up several levels with a squad that has no depth and has made use of a number of players that most were ridiculing and wanted shipped out. At this point it's just embarrassing honestly. Yet again folks will just be made to look daft once next season rolls around. Something that is equally embarrassing is the way you go hyperbole about next to nothing kind of things. Relentless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 More legs around Bruno in midfield to unlock his talents the better. McTominay has the fitness levels this team under Howe demands. Also, the player would be coming into an environment where everyone is on the same page - not the toxic one he's leaving that Ten Hag has patchworked together slightly this season where Maguire/Fred/McTominay himself are scapegoats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 13 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said: Totally. And also, ten Hag doesn't want to sell McTominay. That adds another nuance to the detractors. Norwich fans have said that Billy Gilmour is a League 2 player, just because he didn't come in and play like peak Zidane. Forgetting for a second that he was 20 years old and never had a season of regular football under his belt. (They said the same about a certain Harry Kane. Wonder what happened to him...) (Also, from a neutral who watched a lot of Norwich matches last season, he was their best midfielder) Howe has proven himself. He deserves trust from the Newcastle fans. Why are we even talking about him then? Move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0cafella Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 They will be looking to upgrade average players like him in the summer. on the quiet though, they don’t want to tank the value of a young British player of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, JP said: Also, the player would be coming into an environment where everyone is on the same page - not the toxic one he's leaving that Ten Hag has patchworked together slightly this season where Maguire/Fred/McTominay himself are scapegoats. Maguire aside, this is laughably wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 8 hours ago, Ikon said: Something that is equally embarrassing is the way you go hyperbole about next to nothing kind of things. Relentless. You should see the posts I'm responding to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 I have seen them and have mostly just ignored them/some in general. Like most posters on here without going on relentlessly about them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 will be relieved when we find out McT was just a smokescreen of epic proportions and all of our socks are collectively blown off by the real signing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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