Bally21 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, timeEd32 said: Really worries me how people will be acting if our season goes something like: 6th-8th in the league Out of Europe in December (or maybe knocked out of the Europa League in Feb.) No significant cup run That's an entirely realistic scenario and could still be plenty enjoyable. It would be disappointing after this past season, but I think it would be viewed as a sky-is-falling outcome by many. Agree with this....its going to be tougher next season, Liverpool and Chelsea will improve, villa will be a threat. Extra games in Europe may effect us. If the season pans out as described above then yes it'll be disappointing, but I Hope there isn't some sort of mass meltdown, criticism of Howe, owners, etc ...same regarding the transfer window...whatever happens its a million miles from where we were 2 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobsonsWonderland Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Plus I think we will keep our nerve if we were 6th whereas if Liverpool or Chelsea get back into the top 4 then another one of the big six clubs will be in meltdown and self destruct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Back to the targett debate, I just want us to get some pace in defence. Targett’s ok but he’s looked a bit slow since he came back from injury. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Shearergol said: Back to the targett debate, I just want us to get some pace in defence. Targett’s ok but he’s looked a bit slow since he came back from injury. The problem is, we aren't in the position where we can just add "pace". When we sign players, they must have everything to succeed. I always find it extremely dangerous when people say things like "we need a CB with pace" because it implies that the rest of their game doesn't matter. When in reality, a smart centre back/left back will always out perform a quick one. I wasn't directing that at you mind, I get what you mean and I'm sure they are looking. Ultimately I'd rather wait 6/12 months for the right player. Its absolutely no good signing someone if they aren't immediately better than Burn/Targett. Even the likes of Tierney (who I like) have been dismissed, Robinson wasn't fancied, that Leverkusen LB went elsewhere etc. We should wait for a Cancelo/ Hernandez level LB or a youngster who could become that (Hall is a good shout) but we shouldn't drop our standards because of our fans are cry-arsing about Burn and Targett. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 If it were possible to sell Targett as a way to upgrade at LB it would be the biggest no-brainer of all. His wages are far too high for a squad player for where we are. The injuries to him and Krafth have given us two out-of-form fullbacks making over £8m/yr (plus remaining amortization). Really hurts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viana Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 11 minutes ago, Shearergol said: Back to the targett debate, I just want us to get some pace in defence. Targett’s ok but he’s looked a bit slow since he came back from injury. Regardless of whether we're discussing selling him or not, Targett's issue is that he's not quick enough to be a threat in behind but he's also not quite technical enough to operate as a quarter back like Trippier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 3 minutes ago, timeEd32 said: If it were possible to sell Targett as a way to upgrade at LB it would be the biggest no-brainer of all. His wages are far too high for a squad player for where we are. The injuries to him and Krafth have given us two out-of-form fullbacks making over £8m/yr (plus remaining amortization). Really hurts. The issue is that it all has to come together. For example, what are we going to get for Targett 15m? If we are lucky. So straight off the bat you are likely looking to add 20m to that, to get close to a quality left back. What does 35m get you these days? Tierney maybe? Loads have said he's not worth that due to his injury record. The LBs just aren't out there. Not at sensible prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infatuation Junkie Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 I just hope the owner doesn’t expect the same this season and makes Eddie fall on the sword if we don’t get CL or a trophy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 I also hope a thing which has no danger of happening continues to not happen. Minimum 3 more players in or we riot, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, STM said: The issue is that it all has to come together. For example, what are we going to get for Targett 15m? If we are lucky. So straight off the bat you are likely looking to add 20m to that, to get close to a quality left back. What does 35m get you these days? Tierney maybe? Loads have said he's not worth that due to his injury record. The LBs just aren't out there. Not at sensible prices. Hence you go for Lewis Hall now as an opportunistic buy - then next season upgrade Targett with the knowledge that you’ve essentially upgraded both Targett and Burn for the long term in the space of 12 months Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptimusSlime Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 hour ago, midds said: Think it's worth reminding each other that we're only halfway through the 4th transfer window since the takeover. Comparing the squad as it looks today to how it looked in Oct '21 shows how far we've come and how much has been invested. Turning that squad into one with good cover in every position that can cope in 4 competitions and withstand injury crises isn't going to happen in 4 windows. This is a long term thing and expecting every hole in the squad to be plugged with the quality we all want will take another 4 or 5 years realistically. I can sense a growing amount of entitlement and impatience amongst the fan base on socials etc. Bit shit tbh, just enjoy it and be patient, it'll happen *directed at no-one in particular* 100% agree and I’d take it further by saying the I want everything and I want it now attitude of a growing number of our fans is becoming embarrassing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Viana said: Ones I'd be content shipping out provided we have the time to replace them; Targett, Murphy, Dummett, Burn I have no idea what Burn has done to be on a list next to Paul Dummett. Even if he would not be starting he’s really handy cover to two positions and very liked local lad in the squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Gawalls said: To be fair, much to my embarrassment - I was one also saying he was finished. We all did Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, RobsonsWonderland said: Plus I think we will keep our nerve if we were 6th whereas if Liverpool or Chelsea get back into the top 4 then another one of the big six clubs will be in meltdown and self destruct That's absolutely the key for anybody prone to freaking out about it. Its not like finishing 5th under Sir Bobby which meant terminal decline with one CL place available due to Chelsea's takeover. Were not going away this time, we'll continue to get stronger. Edited July 24, 2023 by Wolfcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viana Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, Pata said: I have no idea what Burn has done to be on a list next to Paul Dummett. Even if he would not be starting he’s really handy cover to two positions and very liked local lad in the squad. More just unfortunate. Burn is significantly better than Dummett in every way. It's more a reflection of our weakness at left back, and the fact he's 31. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack j Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) Whats the guarantee of getting stronger though? Ffp is being a huge pain in the cunt already to us and that's with us being champions league If we come say 7th next season how will we be in a position of being able to get stronger? Edited July 24, 2023 by jack j Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 21 minutes ago, Mikky said: Hence you go for Lewis Hall now as an opportunistic buy - then next season upgrade Targett with the knowledge that you’ve essentially upgraded both Targett and Burn for the long term in the space of 12 months You make it sound so easy to buy one of Chelsea’s most promising youngsters just like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, jack j said: Whats the guarantee of getting stronger though? Ffp is being a huge pain in the cunt already to us and that's with us being champions league If we come say 7th next season how will we be in a position of being able to get stronger? Commercial revenue init Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 41 minutes ago, STM said: I always find it extremely dangerous when people say things like "we need a CB with pace" because it implies that the rest of their game doesn't matter. When in reality, a smart centre back/left back will always out perform a quick one. That's a weird simplification, when someone says that I never assume pace is the only thing they are looking for in a new CB. CB can also be both smart and quick and will obviously outperform a smart but slow CB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 hour ago, AJ9 said: Honestly man, what is the matter with people this summer? Some of the things people are spouting are completely skewed. We’ve not had two years since the takeover. I got a 7 day ban for calling 2 posters "dumb cunts" Funnily enough that was over Targett and the suggestion 'Howe shouldn't have bought him because he clearly thinks he's shit' type drivel. Lost count of the number of times I've deleted "dumb cunt" from my posts lately ???? I'm a better person for it tho ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfcastle Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, jack j said: Whats the guarantee of getting stronger though? Ffp is being a huge pain in the cunt already to us and that's with us being champions league If we come say 7th next season how will we be in a position of being able to get stronger? In the same way it didn't stop Man City from growing and hasn't stopped us so far. The CL money isn't as vital to maintaining our standard as it was or as it likely is Spurs and others. We'll have a stronger side this time next year than we do now with less Ashley players and more non-Ashley ones. Edited July 24, 2023 by Wolfcastle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 42 minutes ago, STM said: The issue is that it all has to come together. For example, what are we going to get for Targett 15m? If we are lucky. So straight off the bat you are likely looking to add 20m to that, to get close to a quality left back. What does 35m get you these days? Tierney maybe? Loads have said he's not worth that due to his injury record. The LBs just aren't out there. Not at sensible prices. There definitely seems to be a lack of difference-making LBs. It could possibly work for someone like Hall though who is not on big wages right now. It's Targett's wages, not his fee, that could unlock a purchase. Hypothetical exercise Sell Targett for ~£12m - break even on remaining fee Remove £5.2m in wages Buy Hall for £40m* (+ some add ons maybe) - £8m per year FFP £60k/wk (huge pay rise) = £3.1m Net: £5.9m in new money or roughly the equivalent of a £22m player on £40k/wk * I have no idea what Chelsea would want ----------------------------- Honestly I think it's more likely we're banking on a return to form for Targett as he gets further removed from injury and gets his fitness up. But if he doesn't become a much more significant contributor this season his wages are probably the single worst thing on our books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyboy Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Why do people keep criticising Targett and saying he hasn't enough pace. Well, Trippier is no speed merchant either but he is one hell of a player. His lack of pace is very much helped by the pace of Almiron. We haven't had an equivalent on the left side to compliment our LB and give the team balance. Hopefully Barnes will fill that gap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezertron Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 There’s hardly owt to hate about targett. I don’t get it. People going on like he’s Nicky Butt level of shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnes23 Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 No reason to hate Targett or Dan Burn for that matter, both are good players who most of us will be happy enough to see stay. LB is the most obvious area of our first XI which could be upgraded though, I would say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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