The College Dropout Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 We need a sticky detailing the FFP rules man. Instalments have nowt to do with it. And some basic accounting principles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 5 minutes ago, toontownman said: Only reason I can see us getting Barnes is if we are shipping ASM away for a much bigger profit and using that to go for a bigger RW like Diaby. I can see Leverkusen asking for a similar fee if not higher fee than what we paid Milan for Tonali, so I don't think what we'd get for ASM would cover the fee for Diaby. It's part of the reason why I don't want ASM sold, we won't replace him with anyone better for the fee we'd get. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hhtoon Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 32 minutes ago, timeEd32 said: This comes up from time to time and yet I've never read anything on FFP that indicates the payment terms (e.g. paid up front vs. in installments) has any bearing on how it would be calculated. You can still amortize the fee over the length of the contract. The only thing I can think of here is we did not want / could not afford to have a purchase hit our 2022/23 accounting year. I've seen this a couple of times but don't understand it as I had thought FFP was purely income statement. It may be for other financial accounting reasons, or maybe there is a cash element to FFP...I don't confess to having read in detail about it. But from an amortisation point of view, if you bought an asset on the last day of a financial year, then you would normally recognise just one day of cost. Unless there is a specific accounting requirement for football clubs stating otherwise! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 A club will have a finite amount of cash to spend per transfer market. Amortisation may be a useful accountancy practice from an FFP perspective, but clubs still need to take money from the pot to pay the fee, whether that's all of it or the first of a number of installments. Szoboszlai has blown a £60 million pound hole in Liverpool's pocket, even if it appears as a £12 million a year on the balance sheet. Other clubs probably didn't want to commit to such a large up-front payment as it'd leave less cash to strengthen multiple positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 36 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: That’s not going to happen though. Barnes will cost as much as ASM Leicester are good at rinsing so probably true but press have been saying 30m to West Ham this week. Reports us say 40m. Seems cheap but he isn't a full regular England international like Maddison. If that is accurate there is a good chance we can get 10-20m more than that for ASM. Especially if Saudi is the destination. I'd still rather keep ASM and just get a RW but if the Barnes rumours are true then maybe that's the moneyball thinking 🤷 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said: It's part of the reason why I don't want ASM sold, we won't replace him with anyone better for the fee we'd get. How do you know? You obvious don’t trust Ashworth or Howe very highly, do you? As I’ve said before, there seems to be this ridiculous notion that every signing has to be £60m+ now, or in the Tonali range, otherwise they’re crap. It’s laughable. There are great players out there, at a fraction of PL prices. It’s what Brighton and other European clubs across Europe do, with effective scouting networks. Merely signing someone who doesn’t go missing for 2/3 of the season injured would already be a significant upgrade. Edited July 5, 2023 by Toon88 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Toon88 said: How do you know? You obvious don’t trust Ashworth or Howe very highly, do you? As I’ve said before, there seems to be this ridiculous notion that every signing has to be £60m+ now, or in the Tonali range, otherwise they’re crap. It’s laughable. There are great players out there, at a fraction of PL prices. It’s what Brighton and other European clubs across Europe do, with effective scouting networks. Merely signing someone who doesn’t go missing for 2/3 of the season injured would already be a significant upgrade. Some reach, that. Of course I trust Ashworth and Howe and of course does every signing not have to be £60m+ otherwise they're crap. I was talking about one specific player, Moussa Diaby, whom is likely going to have his club command a similar fee to what we paid for Tonali. There may be a gem out there in South America or somewhere that no one's ever heard of that we end up getting and ends up being class. Who knows? ASM started 31 matches in 2021/22 btw. He's just been unlucky with injuries, confidence and increased competition this season just gone. And someone as good as he is or at least possesses the factor that he does (that we've probably heard of) likely won't be available for £30m-£45m which is likely to be what we get for him. Edited July 5, 2023 by HaydnNUFC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said: I can see Leverkusen asking for a similar fee if not higher fee than what we paid Milan for Tonali, so I don't think what we'd get for ASM would cover the fee for Diaby. It's part of the reason why I don't want ASM sold, we won't replace him with anyone better for the fee we'd get. That’s not how FFP works man if it was then there is no point putting Chelsea’s new players in 8 year contracts. Say we sold Maxi for £40 million and there was still £5milluon left of his amortisation then we would immediately get £40 million on the balance sheet minus that years £5 million amortisation. When then buy a player for £60 million on a 6 year contract so £10million that year on FFP plus whatever that years wages is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Also if it wasn’t for FFP we could basically spend what the hell we like so paying more money upfront wouldn’t be a issue and I don’t see if as being a issue now unless it then causes issues where the amortisation takes you over the FFP limits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptimusSlime Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Aye FFP rules and accounting rules are completely separate. We appear to have absolutely no problem with cashflow/accounting as further shares can be issued to get cold hard cash to pay for things into the club. Payment instalments etc all come into this. Failing to have enough cash to pay bills sends you into administration. FFP is a made up set of regulations that puts additional spending restrictions in place. This is what holds back out spend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said: That’s not how FFP works man if it was then there is no point putting Chelsea’s new players in 8 year contracts. Say we sold Maxi for £40 million and there was still £5milluon left of his amortisation then we would immediately get £40 million on the balance sheet minus that years £5 million amortisation. When then buy a player for £60 million on a 6 year contract so £10million that year on FFP plus whatever that years wages is. Can't spread the deal for more than 5 years now, so £60m would be £12m a year for the 5 years. Iirc. Edited July 5, 2023 by Bimpy474 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said: Can't spread the deal for more than 5 years now, so £60m would be £12m a year for the 5 years. Iirc. True Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geogaddi Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Jacob Steinberg Wed 5 Jul 2023 19.32 BSTFollow Jacob Steinberg Newcastle are leading the race to sign Leicester’s Harvey Barnes, who is a target for Aston Villa, Tottenham and West Ham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Could only see that if we were definitely selling ASM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack27 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Geogaddi said: Jacob Steinberg Wed 5 Jul 2023 19.32 BSTFollow Jacob Steinberg Newcastle are leading the race to sign Leicester’s Harvey Barnes, who is a target for Aston Villa, Tottenham and West Ham. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/05/newcastle-lead-race-sign-50m-harvey-barnes-leicester link here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionOfGosforth Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 I like Barnes but I don't see that happening at all without sales first, primarily i'd imagine he'd be an ASM replacement, one position we have depth in. Edit - what gbandit said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonjam88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Could well be a smokescreen 👀 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Ooooh Harvey Bahhhnes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGRM Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Jack27 said: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jul/05/newcastle-lead-race-sign-50m-harvey-barnes-leicester link here £50m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Caleb70 said: £50m Lee charnley reacting to every club who’s asking price was over £14m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloGeordio Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, Caleb70 said: £50m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 "Leading the race." Can chalk that one of the list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy84 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Nothing article Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 I don't think it will happen but if we put £50m into Harvey Barnes then I'm going to assume we have no FFP problems and will be spending at least £200m this summer. It would make zero sense to me otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon88 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Anywhere around the £50m is the going rate. Not sure why anyone should be surprised at them demanding that kind of fee, especially given PL inflation. I’d probably see what else is around Europe before committing to Barnes, but he’s a certain upgrade on ASM. 13 goals last season is an impressive haul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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