Lewis Hall

[Upthemags]

Just now, Gawalls said:

Just out and out bizarre to me as well.

Has to be some performance metric Howe and co. don't want to trigger to buy in the summer

[SUPERTOON]

 

[gbandit]

Think it’s just down to Howe’s management style on bringing players through, especially young ones. Unless they come in and perform unbelievably like Tino has or Botman then I think he’s super cautious. We saw that it took Gordon the off season to get up to speed physically I imagine that Hall’s just not showing the fitness numbers in training that Howe’s looking for. I do think we’ll see a lot more of Hall from now on. If we don’t see him play a lot more from January - May then the situation definitely does become odd

[Upthemags]

13 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

https://x.com/DomScurr/status/1733929691268981173?s=20

Am I the only one who finds this tone strange from Eddie? He's so relentlessly positive on players even (and especially) when they play terribly.

 

If there really isn't some sort of games-requirement in the contract, and Eddie is being genuine, I find the whole thing quite strange

[80]

1 hour ago, Upthemags said:

Am I the only one who finds this tone strange from Eddie? He's so relentlessly positive on players even (and especially) when they play terribly.

 

If there really isn't some sort of games-requirement in the contract, and Eddie is being genuine, I find the whole thing quite strange

Been saying this for ages. There's definitely something there.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, gbandit said:

Think it’s just down to Howe’s management style on bringing players through, especially young ones. Unless they come in and perform unbelievably like Tino has or Botman then I think he’s super cautious. We saw that it took Gordon the off season to get up to speed physically I imagine that Hall’s just not showing the fitness numbers in training that Howe’s looking for. I do think we’ll see a lot more of Hall from now on. If we don’t see him play a lot more from January - May then the situation definitely does become odd

Gordon played consistently last season, also Howe wasn’t making un-Howe-like comments in pressers about him.  He’s also playing 17 YO Lewis Miley regularly in MF, despite Hall also being capable of playing there.

 

It does feel like there’s a rabbit off of this one at the moment.  You’re right to take the longer-term view, though. 

[The Prophet]

Sounds like a regular Howe-ism.

[LFEE]

Trippier being suspended for Fulham might give a clearer indication of where he currently is in the pecking order.

[Beth]

It's clear as day we don't fancy him and the lack of game time is to avoid triggering a permanent deal.

[The Prophet]

22 minutes ago, Beth said:

It's clear as day we don't fancy him and the lack of game time is to avoid triggering a permanent deal.

 

If that was the case, I doubt he'd have been coming on today.

[The College Dropout]

Hall started 2 games at LB and then was substituted due to poor performance am I right? Not trusted. Tino came in and balled out. Trusted. 
 

I don’t find it strange at all. 
 

50/50 on Hall starting Fulham.  If he plays well, like properly well - he’ll get a lot more minutes. If he’s not good.. he’ll sit on the bench a lot and play in the FA Cup.  
 

Everyrhing I’ve read about the obligation is that it is a formality and no indication that it’s based on appearances. 

In short it’s Howe being Howe.  

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by The College Dropout

[TheBrownBottle]

29 minutes ago, Beth said:

It's clear as day we don't fancy him and the lack of game time is to avoid triggering a permanent deal.

Bringing him off the bench is still an appearance - and from memory, it was something like one match to trigger the permanent move.  It was an FFP fiddle, not a genuine option.  

[The Prophet]

The conditional obligation usually has to be about three games for it to go on next year's books.

[Dokko]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Hall started 2 games at LB and then was substituted due to poor performance am I right? Not trusted. Tino came in and balled out. Trusted. 
 

I don’t find it strange at all. 
 

50/50 on Hall starting Fulham.  If he plays well, like properly well - he’ll get a lot more minutes. If he’s not good.. he’ll sit on the bench a lot and play in the FA Cup.  
 

Everyrhing I’ve read about the obligation is that it is a formality and no indication that it’s based on appearances. 

In short it’s Howe being Howe.  

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah we buy him regardless. I think what Howe is saying is that he hasn't shown him why to start him ahead of trippier or livra, but that's not really what we need right now. We need to have others in even if the performance might not merit it fully. 

 

Fulham are in high spirits, won't be an easy game, and I can't see us keeping a clean sheet unless we get longstaff back. 

[Beth]

20 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

If that was the case, I doubt he'd have been coming on today.

 

14 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Bringing him off the bench is still an appearance - and from memory, it was something like one match to trigger the permanent move.  It was an FFP fiddle, not a genuine option.  

We'll find out soon enough.

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, Dokko said:

 

Yeah we buy him regardless. I think what Howe is saying is that he hasn't shown him why to start him ahead of trippier or livra, but that's not really what we need right now. We need to have others in even if the performance might not merit it fully. 

 

Fulham are in high spirits, won't be an easy game, and I can't see us keeping a clean sheet unless we get longstaff back. 

Thats never been Howe’s style though.  Players have to earn minutes under him.  This might make him change style but I doubt it. We’ll just buy more players he’s willing to use and more players have earned his trust already this season.  
 

Last season when we had slumps in form or players looked tired or has multiple bad games. Unless there was a trusted player deputising, the players kept their place.  Eg Dan Burn multiple poor performances or poor 60 minutes. Dude was never getting subbed. I stopped expecting or hoping for it. 

[madras]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Thats never been Howe’s style though.  Players have to earn minutes under him.  This might make him change style but I doubt it. We’ll just buy more players he’s willing to use and more players have earned his trust already this season.  
 

Last season when we had slumps in form or players looked tired or has multiple bad games. Unless there was a trusted player deputising, the players kept their place.  Eg Dan Burn multiple poor performances or poor 60 minutes. Dude was never getting subbed. I stopped expecting or hoping for it. 

I wouldn't say they have to earn minutes but they do have to be ready, physically and mindset, that goes for Bruno, Botman et al. Tonali only started the started due to Longstaff and Willock being out. Isak because Wilson was out.

 

Halls a talented kid but's still just getting to terms with what we want/need.

[Dokko]

9 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Thats never been Howe’s style though.  Players have to earn minutes under him.  This might make him change style but I doubt it. We’ll just buy more players he’s willing to use and more players have earned his trust already this season.  
 

Last season when we had slumps in form or players looked tired or has multiple bad games. Unless there was a trusted player deputising, the players kept their place.  Eg Dan Burn multiple poor performances or poor 60 minutes. Dude was never getting subbed. I stopped expecting or hoping for it. 

 

Said after everton this problem exists more now, as he doesn't have the experience of European football and the toll it brings (he may need to trade off that earn every min and be 100% ready, especially atm) but next season and from there on he'll have better players to choose from. Plus, all tge young lads like hall are a year further on and could be a different beast entirely.

 

Shame we can't spin on a couple of seasons. 100% set too high a bar getting CL at tge 1st attempt, then getting a group like that, plus other nails cup draws. Some softer games and we could have rotated more. 

[lovejoy]

49 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Hall started 2 games at LB and then was substituted due to poor performance am I right? Not trusted. Tino came in and balled out. Trusted. 
 

I don’t find it strange at all. 
 

50/50 on Hall starting Fulham.  If he plays well, like properly well - he’ll get a lot more minutes. If he’s not good.. he’ll sit on the bench a lot and play in the FA Cup.  
 

Everyrhing I’ve read about the obligation is that it is a formality and no indication that it’s based on appearances. 

In short it’s Howe being Howe.  

 

 

 

 

pretty sure it stated ‘based on appearances’ or similar when we signed him.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, lovejoy said:

pretty sure it stated ‘based on appearances’ or similar when we signed him.

Where have you seen that?

 

if that was the case and we have major doubts he wouldn’t have got on today imo. 

[Kid Icarus]

Think he's just another player going through his own process with us and, just like with other players who've come in and not hit the ground running, the same questions will be asked. 

 

Really don't have any concerns tbh. It would be ideal to have a ready made left back worth £70m plus, but because we can't do that, getting one in who's widely tipped to be that in a year or two is the next best thing.

[toonfanman]

He’s clearly got talent whilst on the ball, but he seems to be lacking off it.

He has been caught being too tight and getting done by one-twos around him. He was also suspect in one on ones and doesn’t seem that positionally disciplined, which I suspect he doesn’t have the licence to be.

I think for that reason Howe doesn’t fully trust him yet, but he probably expects to be able to coach that side of his game

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

19 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Think he's just another player going through his own process with us and, just like with other players who've come in and not hit the ground running, the same questions will be asked. 

 

Really don't have any concerns tbh. It would be ideal to have a ready made left back worth £70m plus, but because we can't do that, getting one in who's widely tipped to be that in a year or two is the next best thing.

This isn't nearly dramatic enough.

[The College Dropout]

10 hours ago, madras said:

I wouldn't say they have to earn minutes but they do have to be ready, physically and mindset, that goes for Bruno, Botman et al. Tonali only started the started due to Longstaff and Willock being out. Isak because Wilson was out.

 

Halls a talented kid but's still just getting to terms with what we want/need.

Those lads are all experienced pro's signed for big money. And even some of those started on the bench. Hall is 19 - there's no rush.

 

Livramento is older, more experienced, excellent during every appearance, much more of a Prem proven player.. and he still spent a lot of time on the bench. Too much time IMO - I was upset when he didn't get on at Wolves. I was annoyed at Howe because i felt he had no faith in the young lads. It's taken an injury crisis to give Livramento/Hall a chance.

 

When given the opportunity, Hall hasn't really taken it. Which is why Livramento has overtaken him at LB. While I would like Howe to be more proactive in rotation and resting players - all the evidence I've seen from him suggests that's not the case just yet. So Hall being on the bench and barely playing is just typical Howe. I've seen the same thing with Matt Targett. Targett had a poorish 70 minutes against Brighton and didn't play again in the league until Burn's injury.

 

So I'm not worried about Hall. He's 19. He'll get his opportunity again, probably next weekend and if he plays well, he'll play much more going forward.

 

I just hope regardless - when player's are fit. Howe rotates the players more just to keep them fit and fresh. 

[Upthemags]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Those lads are all experienced pro's signed for big money. And even some of those started on the bench. Hall is 19 - there's no rush.

 

Livramento is older, more experienced, excellent during every appearance, much more of a Prem proven player.. and he still spent a lot of time on the bench. Too much time IMO - I was upset when he didn't get on at Wolves. I was annoyed at Howe because i felt he had no faith in the young lads. It's taken an injury crisis to give Livramento/Hall a chance.

 

When given the opportunity, Hall hasn't really taken it. Which is why Livramento has overtaken him at LB. While I would like Howe to be more proactive in rotation and resting players - all the evidence I've seen from him suggests that's not the case just yet. So Hall being on the bench and barely playing is just typical Howe. I've seen the same thing with Matt Targett. Targett had a poorish 70 minutes against Brighton and didn't play again in the league until Burn's injury.

 

So I'm not worried about Hall. He's 19. He'll get his opportunity again, probably next weekend and if he plays well, he'll play much more going forward.

 

I just hope regardless - when player's are fit. Howe rotates the players more just to keep them fit and fresh. 

Can we really say Hall's been "given an opportunity"? Smashed an incredible volley in what was almost a debut appearance for us, held his own against the fastest winger in germany in the Champions League even with a bogus yellow card in his pocket.

 

I just don't really buy this. Hall, at the very least, has played no worse than the rest of the squad's dreadful form at the moment, most obviously Trippier's. Even Ritchie seems to be higher up the totem pole than Hall. Fact is Eddie could've played hall on the left and slotted Tino to his natural RB, and I'm very confident we would've been more competitive yesterday. I love Eddie, but I think the trusting culture he's developed with his favorites has hurt him at times - if Burn doesn't go down, do we even see Tino start a game this season?