Brighton & Hove Albion 3-1 Newcastle United (02/09/23)

[The College Dropout]

12 hours ago, Conjo said:

 

For a keeper who plays so high up the pitch as Pope does it's kind of embarrasing how poor his first touch and passing is. Verbruggen today hit his full backs and wingers beautifully with 30m passes every time Brighton were pressured enough to have to put the ball back to him and allowed them to maintain possesion with a player who was not being pressed. Pope receives the ball and kills it dead like kids were told to do it at 5-6 years old. Then he's out of time because teams knows to press him now and he just has to hoof it (without any technique to get the ball high or with any thought about where to hoof it) in order to not screw up like he's done a few times now.

 

At his age it's probably not something he'll be able to improve a lot on but I really hope he does make an effort in training to, if nothing else, get more comfortable with being put under pressure. Having your keeper as an outlet against a high press seems to be incredibly important these days. We've already seen that first hand today, against Liverpool and Man City.

Aye with Pope - he is what he is.

 

12 hours ago, ponsaelius said:

FWIW I thought Villa's midfield also gave ours a bit of the runaround for large parts of that first game. We just flattened them once we got going, helped significantly by fatty Tielemans coming on. 

Aye.

 

5 hours ago, nufcjb said:

I do not want to see Schar and Burn at the centre of defence again. These two were the main pairing in the season we survived but in that survival run, we got beat 5-1 at Spurs and yesterday was just a repeat of how they played that day too.

Burn is such a massive drop off from Botman. Botman is so composed.

[Gavin400]

6 hours ago, Away Toon said:

Everybody keeps repeating this. How many of the players who started yesterday are not away on international duty? Pope, Burn, Targett, Gordon I think.

I was thinking Howe could take stock and think about tactics and selection.  Especially given the amount of games the time he has during the break is invaluable. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

Watched it back and still don't think Brighton were that great but always interesting to watch De Zerbi's tweaks.

 

Their press actually had a huge hole in it like ours but we refused to exploit it. We used the switch loads last season and it was on on multiple occasions yesterday usually for Joelinton/Gordon. We did it once but Joe was unlucky with the touch. Never again. Think we were caught off guard by the their aggression and potentially due to Liverpool not feeling confident.

 

They used a canny tactic from goal kicks. Gilmour would stand by the GK to create a bigger gap for forwards to take up/pull defenders for long balls and then essentially ran in a straight line past our first pressing line. Totally disrupted who we should cover and then they'd long ball it into Ferguson/JP to get on the turn. Ferguson absolutely owned Burn at this.

 

Their flexibility in build up is great. Comfortable keeper and CBs. Sometimes Veltman tucks in alongside Gilmour while Gross moves up and wider. Sometimes they go traditional box between Gilmour-Gross. Sometimes JP dropped in deeper while Gilmour played as the lone pivot. Really nice and some cool ways to see how we could make a Wilson-Isak partnership work as well as a future with more balanced FBs on both sides.

 

From our side, the midfield tracking really was chronic, possibly due to lack of clear instruction. Joelinton is the worst for this - I reckon good footballing teams have him targeted well now that simple runs behind undo him. Wonder how much Botman is the organiser for us usually on that side.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Gallowgate Toon

[Pancrate1892]

11 hours ago, Myleftboot said:

Shelvey sort of played that position when Eddie first came in.

Nee offence, but that doesn't really answer the question. A number 6 works in a 4-4-2 like a number 4 works in a 4-4-2. 

What is a number 6 in a 4-3-3? 

[maybe_next_year]

9 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

Watched it back and still don't think Brighton were that great but always interesting to watch De Zerbi's tweaks.

 

Their press actually had a huge hole in it like ours but we refused to exploit it. We used the switch loads last season and it was on on multiple occasions yesterday usually for Joelinton/Gordon. We did it once but Joe was unlucky with the touch. Never again. Think we were caught off guard by the their aggression and potentially due to Liverpool not feeling confident.

 

They used a canny tactic from goal kicks. Gilmour would stand by the GK to create a bigger gap for forwards to take up/pull defenders for long balls and then essentially ran in a straight line past our first pressing line. Totally disrupted who we should cover and then they'd long ball it into Ferguson/JP to get on the turn. Ferguson absolutely owned Burn at this.

 

Their flexibility in build up is great. Comfortable keeper and CBs. Sometimes Veltman tucks in alongside Gilmour while Gross moves up and wider. Sometimes they go traditional box between Gilmour-Gross. Sometimes JP dropped in deeper while Gilmour played as the lone pivot. Really nice and some cool ways to see how we could make a Wilson-Isak partnership work as well as a future with more balanced FBs on both sides.

 

From our side, the midfield tracking really was chronic, possibly due to lack of clear instruction. Joelinton is the worst for this - I reckon good footballing teams have him targeted well now that simple runs behind undo him. Wonder how much Botman is the organiser for us usually on that side.

 

 

 

 

 

Bloody hell, why would you do that to yourself. Once was bad enough  

[Pancrate1892]

Fact is that we've heard so far

Drop pope

Drop burn

Drop schar

Drop trippier

Drop Bruno

Drop isak

Drop almiron

 

And you wonder how we ever finished 4th??? 

 

Fact is that that we have changed from last year.

Gordon, tonali are in. Joelinton into midfield and miggy is recalled. 

 

Wilson, Murphy, longstaff, willock and st max are not playing.

Stats CONFIRMS the latter yields better results 

 

 

[Dr Jinx]

Trying not to overreact, we sound like ungrateful shits to complain about a few L’s.. am mindful of that.

 

Bit like you all I spend a lot of time thinking about what am seeing going wrong, more time thinking about why.

 

I’ll be honest, I think we were lucky to get top 4.. you have 3 teams who massively underperformed (Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs), so much so in fact that we didn’t need to be amazing to get over the line with it.

 

So if those mentioned clubs have sorted their shit out and we’re still treading water, then we’re going backwards before we start.

 

I think we can all agree we didn’t have a transfer window that was for the here and now.

 

So where are we at?

 

I think a sort of rot started setting in once we got to league cup final. Yes we had some great wins in this time but overall form was patchy.

 

We’ve carried that into new year. Teams have figured us out to a degree. Villa looked good against us until Mings got injured. Result could have been different hypothetically.

My point I guess is that there’s a case to be made that it’s not a knee jerk reaction but more of an overall realisation that we’ve run out of steam a bit and tactically we’re exposed.

 

Can Howe turn it around? Yes, but he needs to dig deep..

 

If I was a club owner I’d have 2 managers who rotate every season. Slightly different attributes etc.. and let each one take time out from the game to up-skill after every second season. Howe would benefit massively from this. And would keep things fresh.

 

My alternative to Howe would be maybe someone like Potter.. a coach who seems more comfortable training them to keep the ball.

 

Or you could have the other manager coach the reserve team every second year. Imagine the young players getting that sort of education.

[Rod]

10 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

Trying not to overreact, we sound like ungrateful shits to complain about a few L’s.. am mindful of that.

 

Bit like you all I spend a lot of time thinking about what am seeing going wrong, more time thinking about why.

 

I’ll be honest, I think we were lucky to get top 4.. you have 3 teams who massively underperformed (Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs), so much so in fact that we didn’t need to be amazing to get over the line with it.

 

So if those mentioned clubs have sorted their shit out and we’re still treading water, then we’re going backwards before we start.

 

I think we can all agree we didn’t have a transfer window that was for the here and now.

 

So where are we at?

 

I think a sort of rot started setting in once we got to league cup final. Yes we had some great wins in this time but overall form was patchy.

 

We’ve carried that into new year. Teams have figured us out to a degree. Villa looked good against us until Mings got injured. Result could have been different hypothetically.

My point I guess is that there’s a case to be made that it’s not a knee jerk reaction but more of an overall realisation that we’ve run out of steam a bit and tactically we’re exposed.

 

Can Howe turn it around? Yes, but he needs to dig deep..

 

If I was a club owner I’d have 2 managers who rotate every season. Slightly different attributes etc.. and let each one take time out from the game to up-skill after every second season. Howe would benefit massively from this. And would keep things fresh.

 

My alternative to Howe would be maybe someone like Potter.. a coach who seems more comfortable training them to keep the ball.

 

Or you could have the other manager coach the reserve team every second year. Imagine the young players getting that sort of education.

Christ on a bike!  Thank god you are not our club owner.  Never read so much negative drivel.

[madras]

3 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

Trying not to overreact, we sound like ungrateful shits to complain about a few L’s.. am mindful of that.

 

Bit like you all I spend a lot of time thinking about what am seeing going wrong, more time thinking about why.

 

I’ll be honest, I think we were lucky to get top 4.. you have 3 teams who massively underperformed (Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs), so much so in fact that we didn’t need to be amazing to get over the line with it.

 

So if those mentioned clubs have sorted their shit out and we’re still treading water, then we’re going backwards before we start.

 

I think we can all agree we didn’t have a transfer window that was for the here and now.

 

So where are we at?

 

I think a sort of rot started setting in once we got to league cup final. Yes we had some great wins in this time but overall form was patchy.

 

We’ve carried that into new year. Teams have figured us out to a degree. Villa looked good against us until Mings got injured. Result could have been different hypothetically.

My point I guess is that there’s a case to be made that it’s not a knee jerk reaction but more of an overall realisation that we’ve run out of steam a bit and tactically we’re exposed.

 

Can Howe turn it around? Yes, but he needs to dig deep..

 

If I was a club owner I’d have 2 managers who rotate every season. Slightly different attributes etc.. and let each one take time out from the game to up-skill after every second season. Howe would benefit massively from this. And would keep things fresh.

 

My alternative to Howe would be maybe someone like Potter.. a coach who seems more comfortable training them to keep the ball.

 

Or you could have the other manager coach the reserve team every second year. Imagine the young players getting that sort of education.

Can't find the gif of Bill Hicks screwing his face up and going "huh ?"

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The shark has been well and truly jumped. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

In the immortal words of Kevin Bacon, what the shit?

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Vinny Green Balls

[Superior Acuña]

[Vinny Green Balls]

4 minutes ago, Superior Acuña said:

That was a wacky time in Liverpool's history. Confounding as hell when it was announced.

[Superior Acuña]

6 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

That was a wacky time in Liverpool's history. Confounding as hell when it was announced.

I was pretty young but old enough to remember. When I was older I had to check back that it actually happened. Seemed mad. 

[Kanji]

Rotating managers  wowza 

[HaydnNUFC]

Out of curiosity I looked at the .com match reports from 2002-03; we only took 4 points from the first 5 games then after the season we first finished 4th under SBR. The report from Chelsea away, the 5th game, quite a few parallels.

Quote

 

Sir Bobby said:

"We have still got players who aren't anywhere near where they were last year. We need some players to recover and reach that form. Craig Bellamy will get better and the others will. We will get better, there's no doubting that.

"Bellamy did OK, I took him off because we are trying to save him for Wednesday's trip to the Ukraine. I know he can get better, this was his first game and he lasted longer than I thought.

"Laurent Robert will get better, he's been out for two months. Andy O'Brien's been out for two weeks. But we need a show from everyone else.

"We are already eight points behind Chelsea and we're playing catch-up with the clubs at the top of the table. The third goal absolutely killed us. It was a comic goal and I cannot say worse than that. That was always going to be an important goal, we knew that.

"To be fair we played quite well second-half. We weren't encamped in their half, but we were having plenty of possession.

"But the third goal puts a blot on the whole thing and 3-0 looks like a battering which we have had.

"We play so miserably in London and we have done it again."

 

In a nutshell we were vulnerable to pace and in particular the assured first touch, accurate passing and good movement of the home side. 

Our ponderous attacks failed to hit Chelsea on the break - the one time Dyer burst forward he lost his way to goal and the chance disappeared. Had LuaLua been considered he may have shaken things up a bit, but you'll have to ask Bobby about that one.....

Too many players meandered around in midfield, with Speed manfully trying to keep things together on his own in that area - Acuna or Jenas would perhaps have helped him bail out the sinking ship for longer.

Midfield shortcomings allowed the home side to gallop forward and stretch our backline, and a better side than Chelsea could have got a hatful - that's the frustrating thing, Ranieri's team are good but not great.

At the back our well-documented and currently fashionable defensive shortcomings were evident to a certain extent, but no amount of organising or coaching could have avoided the human error of goals two and three. 

Quite simply we didn't have the quality to score a goal - therefore once Chelsea went ahead we were a beaten side. Unfair in those circumstances to blame Titus, Nicos or whoever in isolation. Or the referee.

We could probably have done without a trip to Kiev this week in the run up to the mackem visit, but regardless of what country our preparation is done in, three points are essential against Peytar & Co.

Putting alongside local concerns, to miss out on another three points would be to allow other teams to pull still further away from us at this early stage in proceedings. There will be a revival at some stage and the newspapers will have to switch their attentions to thought-provoking articles about some other poor saps, but we cannot afford to slouch around until the clocks go back.

If this day can be summed up it's that both team and fans allowed themselves to be sidetracked too easily. Quite literally we took our eye off the ball and were made to pay. Mistakes were made, lessons have to be learned and without further delay. 

 

 

[Thomson Mouse]

11 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

Trying not to overreact, we sound like ungrateful shits to complain about a few L’s.. am mindful of that.

 

Bit like you all I spend a lot of time thinking about what am seeing going wrong, more time thinking about why.

 

I’ll be honest, I think we were lucky to get top 4.. you have 3 teams who massively underperformed (Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs), so much so in fact that we didn’t need to be amazing to get over the line with it.

 

So if those mentioned clubs have sorted their shit out and we’re still treading water, then we’re going backwards before we start.

 

I think we can all agree we didn’t have a transfer window that was for the here and now.

 

So where are we at?

 

I think a sort of rot started setting in once we got to league cup final. Yes we had some great wins in this time but overall form was patchy.

 

We’ve carried that into new year. Teams have figured us out to a degree. Villa looked good against us until Mings got injured. Result could have been different hypothetically.

My point I guess is that there’s a case to be made that it’s not a knee jerk reaction but more of an overall realisation that we’ve run out of steam a bit and tactically we’re exposed.

 

Can Howe turn it around? Yes, but he needs to dig deep..

 

If I was a club owner I’d have 2 managers who rotate every season. Slightly different attributes etc.. and let each one take time out from the game to up-skill after every second season. Howe would benefit massively from this. And would keep things fresh.

 

My alternative to Howe would be maybe someone like Potter.. a coach who seems more comfortable training them to keep the ball.

 

Or you could have the other manager coach the reserve team every second year. Imagine the young players getting that sort of education.

 

It's this sort of drivel that'll get us a reputation like Man City.

 

It's been pointed out several times that we had one more point from the same fixtures last season several times.

 

The manager has tried to tweak things and it's up to him to make it work but even considering replacing him is the most ludicrous thing I've heard for a long time. 

[The Prophet]

It's natural to be a disappointed with a poor performance and start, it was far more alarming than the City or Liverpool games. 

 

The great thing is knowing we have a coach and a club who'll leave no stone unturned trying to find solutions. If that level of performance continues, it'll rightfully raise eyebrows, but the bumping of the Howe, Ashworth and transfer window threads seems a bit on the premature side.

[TRon]

12 hours ago, maybe_next_year said:

 

 

Bloody hell, why would you do that to yourself. Once was bad enough  

 

Been thinking about watching it back myself tbh, just to pinpoint why our press was so ineffective and also why we kept blundering straight into theirs.

[TRon]

10 hours ago, Superior Acuña said:

I was pretty young but old enough to remember. When I was older I had to check back that it actually happened. Seemed mad. 

 

Seems mad yet someone's actually suggesting we do that here.

[Kid Icarus]

Not to ram it home or owt, but I would definitely make a point of watching Brighton in the match just as much as you watch us. We weren't bad just because we were bad, we were bad largely because they were brilliant. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Kid Icarus

[Magpie]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

Not to ram it home or owt, but I would definitely make a point of watching Brighton in the match just as much as you watch us. We weren't bad just because we were bad, we were bad because they were brilliant. 

This is what I've been saying since the final whistle. And losing my rag most times!!

 

Yes, we weren't at our best, nowhere fucking near, but they were unreal at times. Too many people massively underestimating them. 

[The Prophet]

It was similar to Villa away last season in that they were very good, but we were far from our best.

[Dr Jinx]

11 hours ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

That was a wacky time in Liverpool's history. Confounding as hell when it was announced.

They shared the job at the same time. My suggestion is slightly different, you just have a different coach to come in and keep things fresh.

 

I’ll explain my line of thinking. When keeping much of the same squad, take Leeds back in the early 00’s as an example. George Graham was in there and had a well drilled defence but with a side with little flair. O’Leary came in and added that, yet the side didn’t lose the defensive fundamentals.

 

It takes about a season and a half for a squad to forget what a previous manager had implemented. Yet can pick up new idea fairly quickly.

 

It’s nothing new, Man Utd did this for years. SAF wasn’t a coach and didn’t do any coaching. He was a shop steward.. he ran everything aside from the playing bit. He gave more responsibility to coaches and took the credit for their work.

 

He also knew exactly when a refresh was needed. You have to give him that.

[The Prophet]

We're four games into the season man. 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by The Prophet