Brighton & Hove Albion 3-1 Newcastle United (02/09/23)

[Conjo]

21 minutes ago, Oregon_Geordie said:

 

 

Would you be able to dig up one or two examples from games he played pre injury last season for comparison?

[ponsaelius]

I've got to say when we signed Tonali I thought he was coming to play primarily as the #6 (allowing for flexibility/rotation he would give us). At Ibrox I was quite puzzled to see Tonali in Longstaff's position and Longstaff as the #6. It didn't matter in that game because Rangers weren't very good, and I put it down to pre-season experimentation. But it had persisted and although Tonali has looked decent in terms of his individual quality - the midfield isn't working.

 

I still don't necessarily think you need an exclusive holding midfielder, and I certainly don't think you should go out and buy an average one just for the sake of it. But you need to get the balance in there right - and it isn't right at the minute. So we're seeing a defense looking more fragile under pressure, and a more disjointed attack.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by ponsaelius

[ponsaelius]

FWIW I thought Villa's midfield also gave ours a bit of the runaround for large parts of that first game. We just flattened them once we got going, helped significantly by fatty Tielemans coming on. 

[Kanji]

5 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

I've got to say when we signed Tonali I thought he was coming to play primarily as the #6 (allowing for flexibility/rotation he would give us). At Ibrox I was quite puzzled to see Tonali in Longstaff's position and Longstaff as the #6. It didn't matter in that game because Rangers weren't very good, and I put it down to pre-season experimentation. But it had persisted and although Tonali has looked decent in terms of his individual quality - the midfield isn't working.

 

I still don't necessarily think you need an exclusive holding midfielder, and I certainly don't think you should go out and buy an average one just for the sake of it. But you need to get the balance in there right - and it isn't right at the minute. So we're seeing a defense looking more fragile under pressure, and a more disjointed attack.

 

 

 

mate do you not think part of the issue is the 3rd midfielder - Joelinton in this case has looked completely off for nearly every single match?

[ponsaelius]

Probably, yes. He doesn't look fit at all. Unfortunately Willock is also out which removes an obviously solution there to replace him.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by ponsaelius

[buzza]

To be honest, both joe and bruno have looked well below par this season. Not sure about tonali yet.

I think we miss longstaffs defemsive positioning and reading of opposition attacks.

[Sima]

3 hours ago, Billy Warthog said:

Just watched it back anyway... Faded after 20 mins into something awful. Three losses in a row is horrible. But we were great in the first game v Villa, so lots to ponder. 

 

International break coming up, will Eddie whisk them off to the desert again for some bloody hard training? 

 

Still think we will bounce back, but a repeat of a top four finish this season looks remote on this offering. I'd be happy with any European competition this time next year. 

Villa game was very much even until Mings went off.

[Pata]

As impressive as Brighton appeared and as poor as we mostly were, Brighton didn’t really create much at all and arguably we had the better chances. First goal was a montage of mistakes and just simply shouldn’t happen, second is a long shot with the inside of Ferguson’s foot that somehow Pope was nowhere near and a massive deflection for the third. If you take away that juicy rebound for the first goal we were at least even on xG which is encouraging considering the poor performance.

We were poor and sloppy in possession but thought we limited them quite well with a makeshift backline and midfield that’s still a work in progress. Not happy with three losses in a row but not at all concerned, we were probably worse at Amex last season and somehow came away with a point. Just need to get things rolling now with the easier schedule ahead.

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Pata

[KaKa]

2 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

They were absolutely fine v Villa. Might need to tweak the way they're playing to get the best out of both but aye, that's a load of shite.

 

Bruno needs more support in the deeper position, especially defensively.

 

As others have suggested a double pivot with Tonali I think would help a lot, and we need to then have Joelinton play a bit further up and closer to the striker and to not be as involved in the deeper build up moves because he is not as good as that at all.

 

I'd try more of a 4-2-3-1 setup with the same personnel as a starting point perhaps.

[Thomson Mouse]

Although Pope made a mistake, the defence were quite frankly shit but the biggest culprits for me were the midfield. They were absolutely shocking, each one of them. I don’t care who else plays but Longstaff needs to be in without a doubt. 

[NE27]

Intensity no longer our identity? 

 

Sobering thoughts going into the break with a few questions for Eddie and the team to try and find answers to.

 

Still behind the lads 100% but today looked as bad as any EH performance I've witnessed sadly.

[ohmelads]

We took 4 pts from these 4 fixtures last season, with similar overall performances. I think the 3-1 scoreline flatters them in much the same way 5-1 flattered us against Villa. The table will change soon as the likes of Spurs and West Ham play the kinds of opponents we've been facing in the coming weeks, and vice versa.

[Stottie]

Quote

As impressive as Brighton appeared and as poor as we mostly were, Brighton didn’t really create much at all and arguably we had the better chances.

 

Yes, their goals were very much created by us, albeit in a backdrop of them controlling the ball. Isak should have worked the keeper when through 1x1 or off the Tonali cutback.

 

The Guardian usually winds me up but their match report this time is written by Jonathan Wilson and talks more about us than them. This often happens when the established big clubs are involved, but I don't think that is such a factor here. He heaps praise on Ferguson, but admits the second was unchallenged in a laughable amount of space.

 

Like the Villa 0-3 last season, it's only one game and what matters is how we react and adjust.

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Stottie said:

 

Yes, their goals were very much created by us, albeit in a backdrop of them controlling the ball. Isak should have worked the keeper when through 1x1 or off the Tonali cutback.

 

The Guardian usually winds me up but their match report this time is written by Jonathan Wilson and talks more about us than them. This often happens when the established big clubs are involved, but I don't think that is such a factor here. He heaps praise on Ferguson, but admits the second was unchallenged in a laughable amount of space.

 

Like the Villa 0-3 last season, it's only one game and what matters is how we react and adjust.

We got absolutely punished for not having a proper 6 yesterday, Ferguson and Pedro having an absolute field day. Eddie’s going for some form of ultra fluid midfield but such a system is really hard to pull off consistently. 

[Oregon_Geordie]

3 hours ago, KaKa said:

 

Bruno needs more support in the deeper position, especially defensively.

 

As others have suggested a double pivot with Tonali I think would help a lot, and we need to then have Joelinton play a bit further up and closer to the striker and to not be as involved in the deeper build up moves because he is not as good as that at all.

 

I'd try more of a 4-2-3-1 setup with the same personnel as a starting point perhaps.

 

Starting to think Joelinton is better on the left tbh, but. much of that was how he linked with Willock and covers Burn. And we have about 4 potential left-wingers right now in Isak, Barnes, Gordon, Anderson, and Big Joe.

 

To the point raised, maybe a double pivot with Tonali and Bruno and then Gordon or Isak in the 10 role behind Wilson?. Barnes/Joelinton left. I trust Eddie will sort it out, 

Anyone wanting him out needs a word.

 

 

 

 

[r0cafella]

10 minutes ago, Oregon_Geordie said:

 

Starting to think Joelinton is better on the left tbh, but. much of that was how he linked with Willock and covers Burn. And we have about 4 potential left-wingers right now in Isak, Barnes, Gordon, Anderson, and Big Joe.

 

To the point raised, maybe a double pivot with Tonali and Bruno and then Gordon or Isak in the 10 role behind Wilson?. Barnes/Joelinton left. I trust Eddie will sort it out, 

Anyone wanting him out needs a word.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, and this highlights another potential issue with our recruitment this summer, I think Barnes is going to be really good for us but I’m not sure he was needed given we have Gordon, Bog Joe and Isak to fill that role. 
 

Maybe the recruitment we did this summer would have been better in a FFP free world, given our starting 11 still has some significant weakness. 

[Oregon_Geordie]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

Yeah, and this highlights another potential issue with our recruitment this summer, I think Barnes is going to be really good for us but I’m not sure he was needed given we have Gordon, Bog Joe and Isak to fill that role. 
 

Maybe the recruitment we did this summer would have been better in a FFP free world, given our starting 11 still has some significant weakness. 

 

Totally agree, it never felt like we needed another left winger tbh. Right yes, but anyway we have what we have and hopefully we'll turn the corner against Brentford and gain some confidence.

 

[r0cafella]

Just now, Oregon_Geordie said:

 

Totally agree, it never felt like we needed another left winger tbh. Right yes, but anyway we have what we have and hopefully we'll turn the corner against Brentford and gain some confidence.

 

Yeah, definitely but at the same time I can totally understand why we did it, it’s like for like, Barnes will end up with more goal contributions than ASM and it looks great on paper. 
 

Upon further inspection the flaws do emerge though ASM also gives intangible benefits such as forcing the whole defence onto his side creating space for miggy and Trips and obviously the funds could have been deployed on a centre half, a DM or a RW to arguably better effect. 

[Oregon_Geordie]

6 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Yeah, definitely but at the same time I can totally understand why we did it, it’s like for like, Barnes will end up with more goal contributions than ASM and it looks great on paper. 
 

Upon further inspection the flaws do emerge though ASM also gives intangible benefits such as forcing the whole defence onto his side creating space for miggy and Trips and obviously the funds could have been deployed on a centre half, a DM or a RW to arguably better effect. 

 

I agree vs Maxi, I actually think Barnes is the better wide forward in regards to goals and finishing. But Gordon seems the better fit in terms of covering back for Burn.

Hopefully, we can find the right balance and get a few wins, once the fixture list is a little kinder.

 

What are your thoughts on Hall starting? Personally, I'd be starting him asap. It's an exciting thought, him and Gordon combining. What I remember of him at Chelsea, he had a tremendous cross on him.

 

 

[r0cafella]

15 minutes ago, Oregon_Geordie said:

 

I agree vs Maxi, I actually think Barnes is the better wide forward in regards to goals and finishing. But Gordon seems the better fit in terms of covering back for Burn.

Hopefully, we can find the right balance and get a few wins, once the fixture list is a little kinder.

 

What are your thoughts on Hall starting? Personally, I'd be starting him asap. It's an exciting thought, him and Gordon combining. What I remember of him at Chelsea, he had a tremendous cross on him.

 

 

Re hall, I don’t think it’s as simple as that, here’s a couple of reasons why. 
 

1. According to Eddie, hall had barely any pre season ( I’m not quite sure this adds up but we can only take Eddie’s word for it) so with that factored in Eddie might find it’s too soon for him. 
    
2. The system we play isn’t really conducive to playing with two attacking full backs at once given our lack of defensive midfielder, it’s why we have always seen Dan Burn just sitting and making a lopsided 3. 

overall I’m desperate to see more of Tino and Hall but I’m not quite sure where they fit into the system given how we play. 
 

Never forget the quote from Rafa about never having enough blanket to cover both your head and toes. 

[Optimistic Nut]

2 hours ago, Thomson Mouse said:

Although Pope made a mistake, the defence were quite frankly shit but the biggest culprits for me were the midfield. They were absolutely shocking, each one of them. I don’t care who else plays but Longstaff needs to be in without a doubt. 

 

We were just as bad when he came on. It's not like it was a 10-15 minute cameo, he played about 40 mins today Inc stoppage time.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Optimistic Nut

[Optimistic Nut]

Watching those goals again. Pope and Tonali for goal 1, Burn backing off Ferguson and giving him the freedom of the pitch for the second, then Burn's pass out of defence being easily cut out and Schar's "block" for 3. 

 

Obviously as a unit something has been lacking but all 3 goals were avoidable from an individual perspective. 

[Geordie_once_removed]

Just to add an extra little kick in the nuts from yesterday. I benched Ferguson for Isak in my fantasy team. Feck.

[madras]

2 hours ago, r0cafella said:

Re hall, I don’t think it’s as simple as that, here’s a couple of reasons why. 
 

1. According to Eddie, hall had barely any pre season ( I’m not quite sure this adds up but we can only take Eddie’s word for it) so with that factored in Eddie might find it’s too soon for him. 
    
2. The system we play isn’t really conducive to playing with two attacking full backs at once given our lack of defensive midfielder, it’s why we have always seen Dan Burn just sitting and making a lopsided 3. 

overall I’m desperate to see more of Tino and Hall but I’m not quite sure where they fit into the system given how we play. 
 

Never forget the quote from Rafa about never having enough blanket to cover both your head and toes. 

The plan may be to change the way we play.

 

Thinking of the players we bought it seems more likely they were bought to evolve the way we play rather than fit into how we played last season.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2023 by madras

[nufcjb]

I do not want to see Schar and Burn at the centre of defence again. These two were the main pairing in the season we survived but in that survival run, we got beat 5-1 at Spurs and yesterday was just a repeat of how they played that day too.