Borussia Dortmund 2-0 Newcastle United (07/11/23)

[Jonas]

Were ahead of schedule, fucking bereft with injuries and fatigue and were in the hardest possible group. We all knew the squad was going to be stretched this season before the injury criis.

Was possible to get out of the group but we were the underdogs and we've held our own.

Expecting to beat these away with half a team out!?

Only disappointment is not getting to give it our best crack due to injury crisis - an annyoning we'll never know.

 

 

[Groundhog63]

See the usual suspects are on here writing us off and some players in particular. Turns out Sean Longstaff can't cut the mustard at this level etc etc blah fucking blah. 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again some of our fans need to fuck off and support Man city.

 

[Interpolic]

Just now, BlueStar said:

A Dortmund fan just sang "You're shit, but your birds are fit" at me so I guess that's something 

 

[STM]

Just now, Groundhog63 said:

See the usual suspects are on here writing us off and some players in particular. Turns out Sean Longstaff can't cut the mustard at this level etc etc blah fucking blah. 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again some of our fans need to fuck off and support Man city.

 

 

I've hardly seen much criticism at all to be fair.

 

Actually it's been one of the more reasoned post match loss threads.

[54]

One thing I'm finding more and more recently, is that I'm not actually that downtrodden when we lose, I'm naturally disappointed, but I'm not anyway as effected as I once was. Mainly as I know that we have the players, manager and staff that will make sure they do everything they can to make it right next game.

 

It's a slightly odd feeling

[madras]

Just now, Displayname said:

The schedule is already stuffed with PL and domestic cup games until then. 

Its not just that we have a limited squad, its also that our playstyle recuires alot of energy each game. Suspensions and long term injuries fucks us further.

And those players will come back. Kind FA Cup draws could help further.

[midds]

Not going to be too harsh on the lads tonight, it just wasn't our night, plenty of effort but lacking in quality and knowhow. Dortmund bossed that tonight imo, they controlled the tempo, killed attack after attack and defended really well and in numbers. That's unsurprising when you compare the levels of European experience the 2 teams had. 

 

We're just not there yet as a club and a squad. we've been catapulted from the bottom of the PL to the CL group of death in 2 years and on nights like this it shows. We've done everything we possibly can to develop and strengthen the squad but we're still susceptible to a bad run of injuries, the squad can't cope with the intensity and quality of the teams we've played since August, it's been relentless. It's no-one's fault but we need another few years before we can really land some punches in the CL. I'm just enjoying the ride safe in the knowledge that we'll only get stronger and stronger as each season passes. We're very much on the right road, chin up gentlemen 

[Interpolic]

Gutted at that like

 

Some good spells but just came up short, unfortunately. A few less injuries and the last 2 CL fixtures might have been different. Really need some players back soon before it derails our season completely. 

[jonny1403]

6 minutes ago, Stifler said:

I never said we did, I said a draw in the home game would have been fair. If Joelinton had scored that chance and we got a draw, you would say we deserved one tonight as well.

 

Aye, I mean not a chance Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, Brighton, a fully fit Brentford, us fully fit doesn’t beat them?

Brentford do not beat Borussia Dortmund mate no  Brighton are third in their Europa league group behind AEK Athens right now. I think you're doing a big disservice to Dortmund/vastly overrating English teams at the same time here.

[KaKa]

10 minutes ago, Ikon said:

Bruno is our only midfielder who is proper top CL quality imo. At least for a group like the one we are in. The others lack either technical ability or intelligence or a little bit of both. 

 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

However, even then, with a striker like Isak dropping in deep it allows the midfield to function far better even at this level.

 

Once he got injured we were in big trouble. Wilson is just not a connector in the same way. Can get away with it in the Prem but not in this competition.

 

Even in the second half, once Gordon went upfront we improved so much because he was dropping into midfield and the channels more, which improved our play.

[BShearer]

i guess a long drawn out EL run and  matches every Thursday would not help us much to fight for top4-top5 in PL while some rivals have none of those games like Spurs, United, Chelsea.

also can give us multiple injuries and less time to relax. dont forget not having much of a fixture nightmare last season helped us a lot to finish 4th.

 

on the other side a great EL would be fun, dont underestimate teams there, they often fight for their life, and Thursday-Sunday tempo is quite hard when you play late on Thursday then a big game on Sunday.

but we could be favourites in most of those games unlike vs quality CL opponents in group of death.

 

also EL trophy guarantees CL qualification albeit that is far from easy to clinch.

 

I think teams that drop down from CL do have one extra round of EL games, like Barca failing in group stage last year had to play United while teams like Arsenal had a free round in EL and did not play only from next round.

 

The way I see it City, Arsenal, Pool are more certain to get top3 places.

Us and United, Chelsea, Spurs will fight it out for 4-5th places. 2 of these clubs will not be in CL.

(5th only worth CL is English clubs do well this season on coefficient country list, top2 we England need to hit I think, usually thats doable eg if City goes very far in CL and Pool goes very far in EL  while the rest also do decent...)

 

I cannot see us getting much in Paris, we beat them fairly at home, but that looks like a one off, as the 3 three performances were not great. Albeit where I think we mostly played as an underdog was the Milan away one but got a good result.

Can see Milan getting something vs Dortmund, so chances are we either need to beat Milan at home for 3rd or dont lose to them.

having said that I hope before the game our lawyers grill them over the Tonali mess haha.

[wyn davies]

4 minutes ago, BlueStar said:

A Dortmund fan just sang "You're shit, but your birds are fit" at me so I guess that's something 

Boxhead birds are canny as well , but are out numbered by the number of dogs they have.

[timeEd32]

Just now, 54 said:

One thing I'm finding more and more recently, is that I'm not actually that downtrodden when we lose, I'm naturally disappointed, but I'm not anyway as effected as I once was. Mainly as I know that we have the players, manager and staff that will make sure they do everything they can to make it right next game.

 

It's a slightly odd feeling

 

League games we're supposed to win still make me tilt a bit because I really want us to qualify for the CL again, but otherwise I am also very calm about everything and just enjoy watching us. It's a far cry from either not caring at all or only caring because I didn't want to see the club disappear into the Football League.

[buzza]

With the injuries and amount of games we are having we can forgive the team an off night.

We didnt get any rub of the green and our passing and game know-how was well off our usual standard.

We will get better though...

 

[The Bonk]

Just now, 54 said:

One thing I'm finding more and more recently, is that I'm not actually that downtrodden when we lose, I'm naturally disappointed, but I'm not anyway as effected as I once was. Mainly as I know that we have the players, manager and staff that will make sure they do everything they can to make it right next game.

 

It's a slightly odd feeling

 

Couldn't agree more and I hope most on here realize that with a full squad, we obviously give Dortmund a better game than what happened home and away. The intensity we showed against Arsenal wasn't there tonight and how could it be as these lads have barely had enough time to recover from Saturday. 

Dortmund took their chances well and looked 10x fresher than our lads did. The lads on the field gave their all, just wasn't meant to be at this stage. 

[TheGuv]

3 minutes ago, 54 said:

One thing I'm finding more and more recently, is that I'm not actually that downtrodden when we lose, I'm naturally disappointed, but I'm not anyway as effected as I once was. Mainly as I know that we have the players, manager and staff that will make sure they do everything they can to make it right next game.

 

It's a slightly odd feeling

Same. I think it’s having hope? 

 

I remember watching us lose 5-2 (I think?) to Fulham under Pardew and I went on a rampage around the house I was so annoyed 

[Vaj]

19 minutes ago, reefatoon said:

 you’re talking out your vaj.

Seems like I got the Bruno bit wrong judging by the comments, fair enough! Just felt he didn’t have his usual influence on the game personally. 

[TheBrownBottle]

It’s a pisser, but it’s hard not to imagine that Tonali, Isak and Botman wouldn’t have made a hell of a difference in these last two games.  The other players missing too, but those three being missing is a massive hole. 

[BonesJones]

36 minutes ago, Decky said:

We need Milan to lose to PSG tonight anyway to at least take the Europa League spot to SJP against them next month. And this notion about it being better to go out altogether, fuck that man, Europa League is not the Champions League, we'll do a lot better there and can go on a run. I'd much rather be in that than nothing like. 

 

 

 

WTF people exist that want us out of European competition? Madness, we need ever bit of experience in these competitions we can get, these CL games will have been huge for us.

[Ronaldo]

5 minutes ago, midds said:

Not going to be too harsh on the lads tonight, it just wasn't our night, plenty of effort but lacking in quality and knowhow. Dortmund bossed that tonight imo, they controlled the tempo, killed attack after attack and defended really well and in numbers. That's unsurprising when you compare the levels of European experience the 2 teams had. 

 

We're just not there yet as a club and a squad. we've been catapulted from the bottom of the PL to the CL group of death in 2 years and on nights like this it shows. We've done everything we possibly can to develop and strengthen the squad but we're still susceptible to a bad run of injuries, the squad can't cope with the intensity and quality of the teams we've played since August, it's been relentless. It's no-one's fault but we need another few years before we can really land some punches in the CL. I'm just enjoying the ride safe in the knowledge that we'll only get stronger and stronger as each season passes. We're very much on the right road, chin up gentlemen 

Bang on, as per.

[Kid Icarus]

A mixture of pride and frustration.

 

Pride because it doesn't matter how well equipped you are, Dortmund away is still always going to be difficult, let alone when you're not equipped because of an unprecedented injury list and a steep learning curve. For us to compete and have been a Joelinton sitter away from changing the tide of the game is nothing to shake a stick at.

 

Frustration because both games against them have been frustrating in themselves and you feel that with better finishing and a little more nous, everything changes.

 

They have a knack for looking vulnerable in certain situations out of possession but then pulling off high risk clean tackles in the back line,  bumbling on the ball but somehow having the ball go through a pinball machine of tackles, misplaced passes, deflections and it land straight at their feet, and being canny when broken on (aided by a ref who I wouldn't really mind not giving yellows if he hadn't inexplicably cautioned Hall and affected his game)

 

I thought Brandt fucking up his step over, falling over, only to get up and for the ball be exactly where it needed to be for him to get it again kind of summed a lot of their attacking play, and obviously very much the first goal too.

 

I don't particularly like or really admire the way they play, they didn't beat us like Man City, Brighton, or Villa did, but ultimately you have to accept that they're good at what they do, even if they flew very close to the wind - with us missing a litany of chances across both ties - which you can only look inward on, even if I do feel like a lot of it falls into the unlucky category.

 

Lots to work on but you can't ignore the context of the match, Trippier and Wilson are tired and you can't really blame them for the consequences of that, or Howe's hand being forced in playing them. We knew the squad would be stretched, but we're really being run through the mill. Our resilience is admirable and fills me with pride, but it's no less punishing and I imagine will get more punishing.

 

Pope: 7

Trippier: 5.5

Lascelles: 6.5

Schär: 7

Hall: 6

Bruno: 7

Joelinton: 7

Longstaff: 7

Livramento: 8

Wilson: 5

Willock: 6.5

Gordon: 5.5

Almiron: 7

 

 

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, 54 said:

One thing I'm finding more and more recently, is that I'm not actually that downtrodden when we lose, I'm naturally disappointed, but I'm not anyway as effected as I once was. Mainly as I know that we have the players, manager and staff that will make sure they do everything they can to make it right next game.

 

It's a slightly odd feeling

 

Plus we are way ahead of schedule too!

 

It's so impossibly early in this process, and as you've said, with the people we have in place it's just going to get better from here as they will continue to build.

[1892er]

16 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Not even that annoyed. We have competed with a decent CL regular across two tight games and just a bit of naivety and their experience and quality, has beaten us. 
 

I’m still not having that either game was some tactical masterclass from them. We just weren’t clinical or effective in the final third across 180 minutes and they were. Fine margins and we are still trying to become a CL regular like they are. 
 

Would have been nice to have played them with Isak and not half our team missing.
 

Livramento was class, as was Pope and I thought both Joes were and all, bar the miss, of course. Not sure what’s happened to Trippier. But may as well get him off set pieces now. 
 

Ah well. Focus on getting 3rd now. 

 

 

 

 

100% agree.  Disappointed but definitely nothing to be too angry at. 

 

Arsenal was a slog of a game, we have 8 players injured and Dortmund are no mugs. Add that together and it's no surprise really. 

 

Let's just enjoy the CL ride as long as we can 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by 1892er

[Doctor Zaius]

Disappointing like. So frustrating. Thought we were better tonight in parts than the home leg. That Joelinton chance was a sitter, you have to, have to take chances like that at this level. The second goal was absolutely criminal at any level too. 

 

Thought aside from the PSG game, we've not looked good in any of our CL games. I think we're struggling with the slower tempo of CL football. Its more technical and less frantic than the PL. I think some players havent adapted yet and it hasnt suited them. Joelinton, Willock and Longstaff have been brilliant in the frantic pace of the PL, but have looked technically off it in the CL. Tonali may have been better suited in these games, certainly looked better against Milan and PSG than he has in the PL.

 

I think we really miss Isak too, he's a focal point and holds the ball up well. Wilson in both legs barely layed a glove on their centre halves, Isak would have caused more problems. 

 

Anyway, the most important thing is that Howe and the lads learn from this. I think qualifying is gone now, but Europa league isnt out of sight. 

 

 

 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

A mixture of pride and frustration.

 

Pride because it doesn't matter how well equipped you are, Dortmund away is still always going to be difficult, let alone when you're not equipped because of an unprecedented injury list and a steep learning curve. For us to compete and have been a Joelinton sitter away from changing the tide of the game is nothing to shake a stick at.

 

Frustration because both games against them have been frustrating in themselves and you feel that with better finishing and a little more nous, everything changes.

 

They have a knack for looking vulnerable in certain situations out of possession but then pulling off high risk clean tackles in the back line,  bumbling on the ball but somehow having the ball go through a pinball machine of tackles, misplaced passes, deflections and it land straight at their feet, and being canny when broken on (aided by a ref who I wouldn't really mind not giving yellows if he hadn't inexplicably cautioned Hall and affected his game)

 

I thought Brandt fucking up his step over, falling over, only to get up and for the ball be exactly where it needed to be for him to get it again kind of summed a lot of their attacking play, and obviously very much the first goal too.

 

I don't particularly like or really admire the way they play, they didn't beat us like Man City, Brighton, or Villa did, but ultimately you have to accept that they're good at what they do, even if they flew very close to the wind - with us missing a litany of chances across both ties - which you can only look inward on, even if I do feel like a lot of it falls into the unlucky category.

 

Lots to work on but you can't ignore the context of the match, Trippier and Wilson are tired and you can't really blame them for the consequences of that, or Howe's hand being forced in playing them. We knew the squad would be stretched, but we're really being run through the mill. Our resilience is admirable and fills me with pride, but it's no less punishing and I imagine will get more punishing.

 

Pope: 7

Trippier: 5.5

Lascelles: 6.5

Schär: 7

Hall: 6

Bruno: 7

Joelinton: 7

Longstaff: 7

Livramento: 8

Wilson: 5

Willock: 6.5

Gordon: 5.5

Almiron: 7

 

 

I wouldn’t have Hall above anyone in terms of ratings tbf.  Bruno head and shoulders above the rest of the MF for me, too.