Newcastle United 2-3 Manchester City (13/01/23)

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

Two of their goals didn't come from this problem though and they don't play with a dedicated AM much, they're exceptionally fluid positionally and basically have multiple AMs at any one time. Case in point, KdB is in a completely different position for the winner.

 

I actually thought one of our CBs could've done better for the second, they both chose to track the run instead of one making the decision to close space. 

Man City always have a player in the AM position though. Might not be the same player but they often look to exploit that position. 
 

It’s poor to see a structural problem in our team exploited on a consistent basis.  

[Isaksbigrightfoot]

9 minutes ago, Aiston said:

 

I'd be surprised. He's an excellent box to box player.

 

Remember Howe saying how he wanted a fluid 3 in midfield, no out and out DM.

He did say that. Which means that the problem will persist. Every top team has one.

[Isaksbigrightfoot]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Man City always have a player in the AM position though. Might not be the same player but they often look to exploit that position. 
 

It’s poor to see a structural problem in our team exploited on a consistent basis.  

For me it’s the big problem. Not having that cover.

 

Our midfield is far to rigid with Bruno Longstaff and Mikey all standing more or less next to each other.

 

That hole was exploited many times yesterday and we didn’t do anything to address it.

[Jackie Broon]

25 minutes ago, Aiston said:

 

I'd be surprised. He's an excellent box to box player.

 

Remember Howe saying how he wanted a fluid 3 in midfield, no out and out DM.

 

Which is fine if we keep our shape in a fluid way, with one or both of the more of the forward two dropping back into the hole that Bruno leaves when he pushes forward. But that's just not happening consistently and it's consistently being exploited by other teams.

[janpawel]

28 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Man City always have a player in the AM position though. Might not be the same player but they often look to exploit that position. 
 

It’s poor to see a structural problem in our team exploited on a consistent basis.  

Man City are the kings of exploiting the half spaces

 

Thinking of us, are best example of it is the Longstaff runs between the CB/LB where he sometimes gets a shot away 

 

Regardless of how this season goes, I hope next season I hope we have more technical ability in the final third and can do this more in possession, as all top teams do

[RobsonsWonderland]

Are we just going to ignore the fact that whilst the 3 CMS might be fluid, none of them have the natural speed and agility to play the game some of you are suggesting.

 

Then add the fact they are running on empty, the out balls are limited because the winners are also goosed then I think it's harsh to ultra critical that they are not performing at their peak at the moment.

[Isaksbigrightfoot]

1 minute ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

Are we just going to ignore the fact that whilst the 3 CMS might be fluid, none of them have the natural speed and agility to play the game some of you are suggesting.

 

Then add the fact they are running on empty, the out balls are limited because the winners are also goosed then I think it's harsh to ultra critical that they are not performing at their peak at the moment.

Even more so they are all similar type players. Box to box. Which is fine if you have a holding midfield player to sweep stuff up.

 

Bruno and Longstaff work well. But we lack that Tiote (RIP) player to break things up properly.

[Smal]

I think we win the game if Joelinton isn’t injured btw . 
 

Miley is fantastic with the ball in the final third but he can’t play as a box to box CM yet at all. Swap him out for an athletic player who is strong in duels and we don’t concede De Bruyne’s goal.

[Whitley mag]

20 minutes ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said:

He did say that. Which means that the problem will persist. Every top team has one.

I agree it’ll persist and for the precise reason that other teams have spotted the weakness, including teams in the bottom half.

 

It’s all well and good folk saying Howe doesn’t play with a 6 and it wasn’t a problem last season, the fact is teams have recognised the weakness and the only other way of addressing it is for the back 4 to play an even higher line, which we also can’t do because we have no pace at the back.

 

 

[Maineblue]

All depends how EH wants to play, if he wants possession based football like City a DM is extremely important.

 

At the moment it seems EH is playing transitional football, turnover and on the break, so a specialist DM isn’t so important, I might be wrong but that’s how I see it.

[Stottie]

I doubt other Prem teams would fail to notice a glaring hole in our midfield until someone else discovered it. I therefore reject the idea that we have been "found out". The coaches at PL level teams set their teams up better than that.

 

I just think we had a more energetic team last season, due to fewer injuries and less fatigue.

[Kanji]

I’d rather throw pelters at the absurdity of not having a DM at our club versus trying to shoe horn a kid or any of the fit players as one who is capable of tracking Kevin de Bruyne. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 hour ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said:

For me it’s the big problem. Not having that cover.

 

Our midfield is far to rigid with Bruno Longstaff and Mikey all standing more or less next to each other.

 

That hole was exploited many times yesterday and we didn’t do anything to address it.

That’s not true though, we clearly moved the 3 CMs narrower in the second half. 
 

I think people sometimes forget that pretty much every goal is scored because of a space somewhere. 

 

 

Edited January 14 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Coffee_Johnny]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Man City always have a player in the AM position though. Might not be the same player but they often look to exploit that position. 
 

It’s poor to see a structural problem in our team exploited on a consistent basis.  

To be fair like, City are great at finding that space. I think it was Foden last time they beat us who kept popping up unmarked and they do it against others too. 

[Lush Vlad]

It is a problem that gap and has been in plenty of games this season. Botman and Schar used to be more aggressive stepping into midfield. Botman and Joelinton have missed so many games that I feel we have lost that.
 

There are so many factors at play here. I don’t think it is as easy to just say we gave KDB the freedom of the pitch. Like it was some pre-meditated decision  
 

They move the ball so well that they create space, drawing players in before finding that line splitting pass. Their players are all so comfortable on the ball and with interchanging positions. It must be horrendous to defend against and stay switched on for 90 minutes. 
 

No fresh legs to bring on when it’s clear our lads are physically and mentally fucked.
 

No Joelinton to play 2 positions at once.

 

Are the defence dropping a bit deeper, either consciously or sub-consciously because Pope isn’t there to sweep up? 

 

If we decided to sacrifice one of our players to man mark De Bruyne. Then they have 4-5 other players who will get even more space and still hurt us. 
 

It was more of a concern against Forest IMO. Last night it wasn’t even as bad as people are making out against such world class opponents.
 

It was something that was highlighted before the game. I don’t think this midfield physically can play this system. But it is Howe’s system and it must be difficult to just change mid-season and they’re the only fit midfielders we have.

 

Not sure why it seems to have come to a surprise to so many.  

[HaydnNUFC]

Staying off here last night looks to have been a good call given the state of the Howe thread. Just caught up.

 

Thought first half was quite an entertaining match, good football from both. All 5 goals were really good tbh, and underpins why getting the best out of Isak needs to be what we aim to do going forward. The guy is unreal.

 

Second half we looked tired from the first whistle, seemed to sit off Man City from the off. Obviously they're really good and can pin teams in but we didn't replicate any of the good things we did in the first half in the second. Tiredness comes into it, but thought we looked leggy as soon as the second half kicked off. We barely got into their third from what I remember.

 

The gap between the back 4 and the midfield 3 has been killing us all season. It was pre-injuries and still is now and it needs rectifying ASAP otherwise we're going to keep conceding goals. Pritchard wasn't good enough to capitalise on it for the mackems last week, De Bruyne is/was. Needs sorting.

[Sempiternal]

1 hour ago, Smal said:

I think we win the game if Joelinton isn’t injured btw . 
 

Miley is fantastic with the ball in the final third but he can’t play as a box to box CM yet at all. Swap him out for an athletic player who is strong in duels and we don’t concede De Bruyne’s goal.

Big fan of Miley but for sure the weakest part of his game is defensively. He’s young so he will learn, but it compounds problems at the minute. Not his fault, just not his natural game. If we had the players wouldn’t mind seeing him as a 10. Has great vision .

[Groundhog63]

On a lighter note, if it hasn't been mentioned yet, anyone feel they were overselling the FormulaE coverage coming later, after the game ???

"Smorgasbord" iirc and a link to Jenas walking along an empty pit lane ?

Would've been hilarious if he got run over by a silent E car 

[Geordie_once_removed]

49 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

It is a problem that gap and has been in plenty of games this season. Botman and Schar used to be more aggressive stepping into midfield. Botman and Joelinton have missed so many games that I feel we have lost that.
 

There are so many factors at play here. I don’t think it is as easy to just say we gave KDB the freedom of the pitch. Like it was some pre-meditated decision  
 

They move the ball so well that they create space, drawing players in before finding that line splitting pass. Their players are all so comfortable on the ball and with interchanging positions. It must be horrendous to defend against and stay switched on for 90 minutes. 
 

No fresh legs to bring on when it’s clear our lads are physically and mentally fucked.
 

No Joelinton to play 2 positions at once.

 

Are the defence dropping a bit deeper, either consciously or sub-consciously because Pope isn’t there to sweep up? 

 

If we decided to sacrifice one of our players to man mark De Bruyne. Then they have 4-5 other players who will get even more space and still hurt us. 
 

It was more of a concern against Forest IMO. Last night it wasn’t even as bad as people are making out against such world class opponents.
 

It was something that was highlighted before the game. I don’t think this midfield physically can play this system. But it is Howe’s system and it must be difficult to just change mid-season and they’re the only fit midfielders we have.

 

Not sure why it seems to have come to a surprise to so many.  

I think the not stepping up is in part down to the injury to Pope.  He was signed partly because of his strengths as a sweeper keeper. This allowed the CBs to push up more.

 

Dubravka has been ok since he has come in but his command of the box and sweeping are way worse that Pope's. This changes how the back 4 play and the impact of this is rippling up through the team and helping cause this gap that is being exploited.

[Smal]

14 minutes ago, Sempiternal said:

Big fan of Miley but for sure the weakest part of his game is defensively. He’s young so he will learn, but it compounds problems at the minute. Not his fault, just not his natural game. If we had the players wouldn’t mind seeing him as a 10. Has great vision .

yeah, don’t mean it as criticism of Miley, he’s pretty much a square peg in a round hole. His profile suggests he’s a 10 to me too.

[Bintang]

3 hours ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said:

Hard one to take yesterday but they showed us the way to win games. That’s to have world class players to bring on.

 

We can’t do that atm because of the injuries.

 

We need some players back. The injuries are killing us.

 

Even without injuries we can't do that yet. They have spent ten years building up to being as good as they are and brought on one of the best players in the world. 

[Sempiternal]

4 minutes ago, Smal said:

yeah, don’t mean it as criticism of Miley, he’s pretty much a square peg in a round hole. His profile suggests he’s a 10 to me too.

Agree, get him into those pockets of space and let him cook. Played a lovely ball to Isak yesterday.

[samptime29]

Free pass for me. We haven't had any subs on bench for fucking ages. It's just too hard. Hopefully after Villa we have players back and go on a run. I would be happy with 7th and a good cup run. 

[Conjo]

7 minutes ago, Bintang said:

 

Even without injuries we can't do that yet. They have spent ten years building up to being as good as they are and brought on one of the best players in the world. 

 

While we can't do that right now, I do think we'd have won yesterday if we could put on just two of Wilson, Barnes, Murhpy, Joelinton, Willock, Tonali or Livramento while we were still at 2-1.

[huss9]

if Isak makes it 3-1 we have a 2 goal lead to defend in the second half.

money would still have been on city to at least get a draw