Group C: 1. England, 2. Denmark, 3. Slovenia (Q), 4. Serbia

[samptime29]

Thought we played really well first third of the game. After that we were a little disappointing. Serbia were full of effort and physical. Still clean sheet and 3 points. Good important win for us.

[Cf]

5 minutes ago, samptime29 said:

Thought we played really well first third of the game. After that we were a little disappointing. Serbia were full of effort and physical. Still clean sheet and 3 points. Good important win for us.

 

See even then I'm not convinced. I think we flattered to deceive a little bit. Apart from the goal (which was a very good goal) we didn't really create much.

 

I'm all for looking for the positives, growing into the tournament, etc, but we go through this every time with Southgate.  We look underwhelming in the groups, expect better in the knockouts, and then just lose to the first sign of decent opposition. 

 

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see why this time is going to be any different. 

[STM]

The issue is that once again once a little bit of pressure comes, England retreat into their shell. 

 

From a tactical perspective, Southgate has them in such a negative mindset. When they meet resistance, there is no character.

 

When Serbia came onto England, surely that was the time to go and beat them? They opened themselves up. Instead we found ourselves hoofing the ball long or relying on Bellingham to find a way out.

 

Pickfords goal kicks went long every time. I'm sorry, can we not beat Serbias press? Two of our defenders play for City, Trippier is good on the ball and I'm sure Guehi is competent enough, never mind the rest of the side.

 

I can't for the life of me understand how Foden stayed on the pitch. He gave the ball away numerous times. He's staying on because of his reputation. He's making the same mistake every other England manager has, sticking by his favourites and not having the guts to drop players in favour of having a balanced side.

 

The game was begging for Gordon. His pace and counter attacking ability would have changed the game. There was a time when nobody on the left was willing to take players on and only Saka and Bellingham had done it all game. Too much side ways passes, which comes down to a lack of character.

 

Some players yesterday showed they had the balls: Saka, Bellingham, Rice, Guehi. Some didnt: Foden, Trent.

 

Against Denmark I'd be "resting" Foden and Trent. Bring in Gordon and Wharton and tell them to go and play FFS.

[STM]

Some positives:

 

1. Bellingham could win the tournament on his own 

 

2. We won and kept a clean sheet

 

3. Teams have won major tournaments with a backs against the wall style. Italy were famous for it, Greece etc.

 

4. There's half a chance we might find a better formula as we progress.

[Cf]

5 minutes ago, STM said:

Some positives:

 

1. Bellingham could win the tournament on his own 

 

That volley pass was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in a while. 

[Tiresias]

I am not going to overreact, it's a win, we didn't concede and plenty of good tournament teams grind them out. But there is some muddy thinking going on. I do not blame Southgate too much for Foden having a poor game, I think he would be entitled to expect Foden to be more effective than he was. But I do not understand why we are having TAA learn to be a midfielder at a tournament...Also when Gallagher comes on for him looks like he is the backup, now I do rate Gallagher but again he is a bustling risk taking player. England does not produce players who try and keep posession unfortunately. Lewis Cook from Bournemouth is the only one but he seems to have been nowhere near. 

 

Wharton may be that, but you can tell he hasn't been in the set up long enough for Southgate to trust too much. 

 

Again however, digging in and grinding out a 1-0 is very much a good quality for a tournament team. I hope Gordon gets a shout, he would be so much better on that left side than Foden was. Foden is a genius player though but coming on for a tired Saka on his preferred side at 60 minutes could be just as helpful. 

[Tiresias]

Oh and Bellingham is unbelievable. 

[The College Dropout]

51 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

Nobody has a squad full of world class players. That’s where managers and coaches show their importance. 

The balance is out of whack.  
 

I like Guehi. He’s starting for England, he wouldn’t make the French squad. We have no fit left back (sounds crazy but Hall should’ve went). We have 1 central midfielder who regularly plays there at the highest level. We have 1 natural LW and he has 3 caps and didn’t come off the bench. We have what feels like 7-8 players with barely any caps and about 1 years experience at the highest level. 
 

We have about 3 brilliant 10s though. And 4 great RW options. Harry Kane. Declan Rice. 
 

From the little I’ve seen Wharton is the best partner for Rice. Positionally conservative, combative enough and a 1-2 touch passer to better players. He probably won’t get a minute. Better yet if both Rice and Bellingham are happy to play conservatively have them as a solid athletic double pivot.  My only issue with them both is they both progress the ball through carrying. I’ve not seen Jude control a game through passing. At international level Pogba was able to be positinally disciplined and progress his team with passing. I don’t know if Jude can do that. 
 

If Kane wants to come deep, drop Foden - Bellingham and Gordon are better in behind. 

[South-Cheshire-Toon]

19 minutes ago, Cf said:

 

See even then I'm not convinced. I think we flattered to deceive a little bit. Apart from the goal (which was a very good goal) we didn't really create much.

 

I'm all for looking for the positives, growing into the tournament, etc, but we go through this every time with Southgate.  We look underwhelming in the groups, expect better in the knockouts, and then just lose to the first sign of decent opposition. 

 

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see why this time is going to be any different. 

 

Substitute any previous manager's name, also include any future managers name.

 

Same old / same old - 4-4-2 - so long as the 'FA' have grips on the manager nothing will change - no dynamism - too pedestrian, teams able to adapt - and then put us under pressure.

 

As an example - Italy's game - if you looked at both you'd say they were the same game play - but Italy adapted, and hit the middle often - I don't think the ball came down the middle once in the first half.

 

Well as they sing 'Things can only get better' - Let's hope they do.  

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

I am not going to overreact, it's a win, we didn't concede and plenty of good tournament teams grind them out. But there is some muddy thinking going on. I do not blame Southgate too much for Foden having a poor game, I think he would be entitled to expect Foden to be more effective than he was. But I do not understand why we are having TAA learn to be a midfielder at a tournament...Also when Gallagher comes on for him looks like he is the backup, now I do rate Gallagher but again he is a bustling risk taking player. England does not produce players who try and keep posession unfortunately. Lewis Cook from Bournemouth is the only one but he seems to have been nowhere near. 

 

Wharton may be that, but you can tell he hasn't been in the set up long enough for Southgate to trust too much. 

 

Again however, digging in and grinding out a 1-0 is very much a good quality for a tournament team. I hope Gordon gets a shout, he would be so much better on that left side than Foden was. Foden is a genius player though but coming on for a tired Saka on his preferred side at 60 minutes could be just as helpful. 

Agreed. We don’t produce Bruno’s and Paqueta’s.  

 

THATS why TAA is in the team I think to be that midfield distributor. But I keep screaming it, he’s not a CM because he’s not good enough a footballer. TAA can hit every pass Toni Kroos can.  But Toni Kroos can control a football under pressure, Toni Kroos can play with his back to goal. TAA can’t. It will be so interesting to see him play under a different club manager. I think Slot likes 5 at the back which will work great for TAA. He’s a liability at RB and not good enough yet as a player to play CM. 

[Abacus]

It's clear they haven't yet found a balance for a lot of the talented players England have, so that may come.

 

The one thing is that, re second half in particular, we've seen this before at several tournaments. Even in the first half it was clear we had little coming down the left wing - not addressed in the second. When Serbia came on a bit stronger there was no real reaction and not much improvement, and that's on the manager.

 

You can hope Southgate improves in this aspect, but we hope for that every time and it never seems to happen. For all the great things he's done and needs huge credit for, it's this which means you always fear that England will end up falling short when it matters. 

 

Maybe too pessimistic a take from one game and after an opening win, it just feels a bit familiar so far.

[huss9]

34 minutes ago, STM said:

Some positives:

 

1. Bellingham could win the tournament on his own 

 

2. We won and kept a clean sheet

 

3. Teams have won major tournaments with a backs against the wall style. Italy were famous for it, Greece etc.

 

4. There's half a chance we might find a better formula as we progress.

hope so . but

3. they'd been drilled to play that way. second nature to them.

4. its taken him 6 years and we are using the same formula.

[Coffee_Johnny]

57 minutes ago, Cf said:

 

That volley pass was one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in a while. 

It was a thing of beauty. 

[St1pe]

I’d stop short of saying I feel sorry for him but TAA’s career trajectory is potentially so disappointing. He was one of the most dangerous right backs in the league a couple of years ago despite his defensive short comings and this angle was being pushed he could be some sort of De Bruyne playing in midfield and he’s just not that guy. He’s good on the ball but his positional sense and work rate is way way below where it needs to be to play centre midfield. Gallagher coming on and actually pressing the ball looked noticeable compared to what he was offering. 

 

If he’d have just knuckled down and worked on his defensive duties rather than buying into the hype we could have had one of the best full backs in the world playing for us. 
 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Trent is a bit of a victim of his own hype as well though, it's not his fault that Southgate is dense enough to think the guy is ready to play CM at a major tournament.

 

Like you said, improving his defence would have made him one of the best right backs eve, why mess about with being a midfielder. 

[WilliamPS]

Serbias manager correctly saw England’s only outlet was down the right through Saka, they got aggressive and shut that down. Their LB had a great second half. What is then up to englands manager is to adapt England to provide either a different threat on the right or to fix the left side. I think starting Foden at LW was fair enough, it was worth trying, but it didn’t work. That needs to be looked at for the next game.

 

TAA is a good player but he isn’t a midfielder, he isn’t good at receiving the ball facing toward his own goal and turning, or finding space between the lines to receive it, or pressing in midfield, which aren’t  requirements for a full back. Gallagher is a better solution when there’s little space in midfield. TAA would be fine in a game against a team sitting deep, or in an open game but not when England are getting pressed high up.

 

Fixing the two issues and England look like contenders. As it’s Southgate I think he probably fixes none or one, my prediction is Gallagher in vs Denmark and that will move England up a gear. If Gordon gets on the pitch the case for him at LW will be blatant 

[Sibierski]

Bit of a meh game, job done though whilst being unspectacular. Only can take game by game, but would hope overall performance is better come QFs when we face a good side. 
 

Would’ve liked to seen Gordon for Foden for final 20. Game just felt suited to him, and could’ve been the environment to show everyone what he’s capable of outside of us Newcastle fans. Bit shit that Bowen was preferred, who’s average for what he brings IMO. Understand Saka wasn’t fully fit, but move Foden there and Gordon LW. My only bias opinion from last night.

[Kimbo]

England just seem to turn into a Steve Bruce side when pressed. Retreat to our own third and one man presses whoever has the ball. On the ball I think we just had a bit of an off night, but off the ball we look a badly coached team.

[Shearergol]

Genuinely think of Gordon comes on after 50 minutes England then end up comfortable. I might be biased as he’s one of ours, but Serbia had absolutely nothing to worry about on our left. He would have stretched them which would have given our midfielders and Kane more space.

[Yorkie]

Tbf Bowen came on and almost immediately delivered an assist; it was only a genuinely brilliant save which prevented that, and the game is then killed stone dead. That's not to say there wasn't room for Gordon too, but the Bowen sub wasn't ineffective. 

[buzza]

Bellingham in middle with Rice (TAA out), foden at 10 and gordon on the wing. Rest the same as before

[Shearergol]

2 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Tbf Bowen came on and almost immediately delivered an assist; it was only a genuinely brilliant save which prevented that, and the game is then killed stone dead. That's not to say there wasn't room for Gordon too, but the Bowen sub wasn't ineffective. 

Yep, no issue with that sub either. Saka was blowing hard.

[The College Dropout]

Saka was great first-half mind. Lad always turns up. Unlike TAA & Foden, he's earned his England start through his performances for England.

 

Gallagher - Rice is a bad midfield combo. Neither can get the ball in attacking positions well.

[Abacus]

Thought Bowen did well enough so no problems with that sub, though it was essentially a similar plan to what had worked in the first half but wasn't by then.

 

Still think not only would Gordon have balanced out the side in normal play, but would have been a speedy counter-attacking outlet when the Serbs later came on to us, stopping them from risking pressing us quite as aggressively. Ah well, club bias and all.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Abacus said:

Thought Bowen did well enough so no problems with that sub, though it was essentially a similar plan to what had worked in the first half but wasn't by then.

 

Still think not only would Gordon have balanced out the side in normal play, but would have been a speedy counter-attacking outlet when the Serbs later came on to us, stopping them from risking pressing us quite as aggressively. Ah well, club bias and all.

Agreed. It was a good sub.

 

I would've preferred Palmer to help control the game/ball more.

 

Southgate does that thing Eddie does which frustrates me. 95% of his subs are pre-planned, including the minute of the introduction. No matter what's happening on the pitch.