Víctor Muñoz: Signs For Liverpool

[Mattoon]

56 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Not for me, it was a humiliation ritual. In order to threaten them which basically translate to taking or threatening to take the position from them we'd have to be equal footing. 

 

They wouldn't be able to absolutely ruin us with minimal effort. 

 

Maybe I should have added existential threat instead 

 

Do you see a guy running up behind you who may not be as big as you but he has his hood up a threat as he closes down on you or is he only a threat if he's a similar size as you and already thrown a punch?

[Mills and Boon]

7 minutes ago, Rosenrot said:

That was ages ago

 

But it means there's at least two baskets our eggs were in? 

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

 

Do you see a guy running up behind you who may not be as big as you but he has his hood up a threat as he closes down on you or is he only a threat if he's a similar size as you and already thrown a punch?

If I have twice what he has then no. And this is what we are talking about here. 

[STM]

13 minutes ago, gbandit said:

What do you think are realistic tools we could use to avoid this happening though?

 

We can’t control an agent or a player to the degree that they don’t look at other options. An agent will always leak things if they think there are other clubs that may be a better option for their player / more financially rewarding. We can try to move as quickly as possible and try play hardball on signing by certain dates but does anyone know how effective that is as a negotiation strategy with agents? We can offer more favourable terms if we know a player is at risk of going elsewhere but are we in a position to offer better terms than the cartel? No.

 

So then you are left with seeking out players who are riskier, earlier on in development, have had injuries etc

 

I’d be interested to hear people’s thoughts on this subject. I think @Minhosa talked about it earlier

 

I think someone had a planet of the apes theory knocking around but im not sure or was it survival of the fittest. Perhaps we could dig up Darwin to be our DOF.

[Sidg]

These agents must be excellent, sociopath-level liars. It might be easier to spot the tells in person, even over the phone, but all this shit gets done over WhatsApp these days apparently. Much easier to get away with an obvious ruse over text. Maybe hiring a linguistics expert is the next big recruitment revolution. Only half-joking. 

[KennyUtd]

Definitely time to close the thread. He's gone boys. 

[RS]

Must be great having the FFP tool to use so effectively.  We are a feeder club for the cartel. As is everyone outside masters 6. We’ll just have refocus and look to buy potentially talent and then sell at a profit as a model for a long while yet. 

[Jackie Broon]

6 minutes ago, gbandit said:

What do you think are realistic tools we could use to avoid this happening though?

 

We can’t control an agent or a player to the degree that they don’t look at other options. An agent will always leak things if they think there are other clubs that may be a better option for their player / more financially rewarding. We can try to move as quickly as possible and try play hardball on signing by certain dates but does anyone know how effective that is as a negotiation strategy with agents? We can offer more favourable terms if we know a player is at risk of going elsewhere but are we in a position to offer better terms than the cartel? No.

 

So then you are left with seeking out players who are riskier, earlier on in development, have had injuries etc

 

I’d be interested to hear people’s thoughts on this subject. I think @Minhosa talked about it earlier

 

The speed we operate seems to possibly have been an issue in a few cases, not being decisive enough with offers, haggling over a few million rather than just getting the deal done as quickly as possible, alerting other clubs to availability and giving them enough time to hijack the deal.

 

Agents are obviously very influential and it seems that we don't really have them on side, maybe there is stuff going on behind the scenes that means that we don't really have them on side and they have no worries about screwing us over.

 

Or maybe we have been a bit naive and unimaginative with targets and need to focus on finding players that have slipped under the sky six's radar. 

 

I don't know, I might be completely wrong, but reacting with bemusement and carrying on, if that's the case, is worrying.

 

 

[Miggys First Goal]

I will piss and shit on the grave of that pasta nonce. Fucking cunt. 

[Nucasol]

Just now, Miggys First Goal said:

I will piss and shit on the grave of that pasta nonce. Fucking cunt. 

Here for this energy 🔋 

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, KennyUtd said:

Definitely time to close the thread. He's gone boys. 

 

Bring on the hate watch ...

 

[geordiesteve710]

Very first thing is we tell that agent we're not dealing with him or his clients for the foreseeable. Don't care who the player is, how big a bargain, how much talent/potential, how much the manager wants him etc. Then this gets leaked through the clubs usual journalists.

 

Cutting our nose off to spite our face? Possibly, but the biggest problem we currently have is that we're clearly being played and used to flush out other buyers. This agent has took the piss, saying one thing at 6 knowing something else was set to be agreed imminently. Sends out a clear message that we won't put up with that again. Will also put that agent's nose out of joint because any young players he wants on his books will now be very aware that he's blacklisted by "ThE rIcHeSt ClUb In ThE WoRlD."

 

Just accepting it sends out the message that any agent can use us to flush out other potential buyers, get a better contract for their client etc and we'll just take it and say thank you. If nothing else it will save us a shitload of time dealing with tyrekickers in future and we can concentrate on players who actually want to sign.

[Shearergol]

Can't say I've missed the "player only wanted liverpool" tweets

[bobbydazzla]

 

1 minute ago, geordiesteve710 said:

Very first thing is we tell that agent we're not dealing with him or his clients for the foreseeable. Don't care who the player is, how big a bargain, how much talent/potential, how much the manager wants him etc. Then this gets leaked through the clubs usual journalists.

 

Cutting our nose off to spite our face? Possibly, but the biggest problem we currently have is that we're clearly being played and used to flush out other buyers. This agent has took the piss, saying one thing at 6 knowing something else was set to be agreed imminently. Sends out a clear message that we won't put up with that again. Will also put that agent's nose out of joint because any young players he wants on his books will now be very aware that he's blacklisted by "ThE rIcHeSt ClUb In ThE WoRlD."

 

Just accepting it sends out the message that any agent can use us to flush out other potential buyers, get a better contract for their client etc and we'll just take it and say thank you. If nothing else it will save us a shitload of time dealing with tyrekickers in future and we can concentrate on players who actually want to sign.

Whilst I agree in principle, I don’t think there’s an agent in the business who puts morals over money.

 

Like dealing with a pimp. He just wants his ho’s making him as much money are possible for as little effort as possible.

 

No fucking way on gods green earth is an agent putting NUFC and their mid table transfer fees and wages ahead of Liverpool. 

[Conjo]

45 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Actually a really good article. Albeit a painful one to read.

 

Some real scumbaggery from Munoz and his team 

 

 

Everything was agreed: the fee with his club Osasuna, personal terms and agent fees. The player, his representatives and his family had all told Newcastle he wanted to sign for them and was going to do so.

 

Even as late as 6pm on Wednesday, his representatives were reassuring senior figures at Newcastle that Muñoz was heading to Tyneside. Four hours later he had agreed to sign for Liverpool.

 

It is embarrassing and frustrating in equal measure. There is, Telegraph Sport has been told, a sense of bewilderment at St James’ Park, as well as feelings of betrayal.

 

Nobody seems to fully understand what happened and why. Newcastle had been working on the deal for weeks. They knew there was competition for him and that Liverpool were one of the clubs interested, but they had been told he wanted Newcastle. They were lied to. It is difficult to escape the view that they have, once again, been used to get a player a move elsewhere.

 

Are people genuinely seeing this as embarassing for NUFC?

 

Only embarassing thing about it is how Munoz' camp has handled it. If true, obv.

[r0cafella]

3 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

Are people genuinely seeing this as embarassing for NUFC?

 

Only embarassing thing about it is how Munoz' camp has handled it. If true, obv.

Another transfer we've not got over the line is definitely embarrassing for us iyam. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

Most curious thing about this whole ordeal is how Liverpool were able to go about things almost completely silently. No leaks to the press and the agent obviously respected them enough not to push it that way either. 

[TRon]

15 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

 

The speed we operate seems to possibly have been an issue in a few cases, not being decisive enough with offers, haggling over a few million rather than just getting the deal done as quickly as possible, alerting other clubs to availability and giving them enough time to hijack the deal.

 

Agents are obviously very influential and it seems that we don't really have them on side, maybe there is stuff going on behind the scenes that means that we don't really have them on side and they have no worries about screwing us over.

 

Or maybe we have been a bit naive and unimaginative with targets and need to focus on finding players that have slipped under the sky six's radar. 

 

I don't know, I might be completely wrong, but reacting with bemusement and carrying on, if that's the case, is worrying.

 

 

 

 

I could have believed that last summer, but we have a specialist DOF in place now. I just find it hard to believe that he wouldn't be prepared for this. 

[OoOGazOoO]

2 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

Most curious thing about this whole ordeal is how Liverpool were able to go about things almost completely silently. No leaks to the press and the agent obviously respected them enough not to push it that way either. 

 

Aye, especially when one source mentioned they were 'always at the table'.

[The Prophet]

"Embarrassing" is one of the most overused words in football discourse mind.

 

Shitting your pants is embarrassing. Your club attempting and failing to sign a player is not.

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

Most curious thing about this whole ordeal is how Liverpool were able to go about things almost completely silently. No leaks to the press and the agent obviously respected them enough not to push it that way either. 

It's easy for them right? He obviously would prefer to there and they just paid the clause. 

 

The could literally trigger the clause without even bothering to speak to the agent should they have chosen too. 

 

In all likelihood Liverpool registered an interest in the lad and the agent kept them updated. 

[Conjo]

Just now, r0cafella said:

Another transfer we've not got over the line is definitely embarrassing for us iyam. 

 

I don't get it. Must be awful living in a world where you are embarassed over this. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, The Prophet said:

"Embarrassing" is one of the most overused words in football discourse mind.

 

Shitting your pants is embarrassing. Your club attempting and failing to sign a player is not.

I would agree but at the rate we do it I think it is embarrassing and reflects poorly on us. Just my 2c

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, Conjo said:

 

Are people genuinely seeing this as embarassing for NUFC?

 

Only embarassing thing about it is how Munoz' camp has handled it. If true, obv.

 

Maybe just slightly so, in that they don't seem to have the right idea of who they can realistically attract for what role.

 

We can't be after this Munoz kid to come in initially behind Barnes, when the likes of Liverpool are also pitching to him to come in as a squad player to develop too. We'd have had to be offering him a first team place or much more first team opportunities in order to sway him.

 

That's essentially what Brighton would have done with the Zadok Yohanna kid.  While we would have been pitching to him that he would start off as a squad player to develop further and push for a first team place. Brighton likely told him he'd be in the first team for meaningful games right away.

 

We need to re-evaluate who we are looking at and for what sort of role in the team.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

1 minute ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

Most curious thing about this whole ordeal is how Liverpool were able to go about things almost completely silently. No leaks to the press and the agent obviously respected them enough not to push it that way either. 

I don't see the need for all the updates our "journos" were given. Unless of course that was leaked to inform everyone else of the progress and invite others, which I suspect it was. It'll also not have been in real time and rather selective of what was actually happening from the player side. From the sounds of things it wasn't even us that delayed it.