Kieron Dyer

[Baggio]

I'll be happier when we start throwing our financial weight around and beating smaller clubs to the top players

 

What financial weight is that?

 

Do you mean Mike Ashley throwing his own money around or do you want the club to go further into debt to buy players?

 

the financial weight gained from having one of the biggest crowds and fanbases in the country, what do you think ?

 

I think you should answer the whole post Baggio mate, it is quite clear that Tron is advocating Ashley uses either his money or the clubs' to keep a player on the payroll that wants to leave.

 

 

 

Do you even look at our financial results?

 

We may have a big crowd and fanbase but we've been operating at a loss for a few years now, which means any players we want to buy has to be borrowed on top of the debt we already have to pay back.

 

Would you be happy if we spent £20 million on players even if it pushed the clubs debts up to the £100 million mark?

 

Ashley is driving a hard bargain for a player for whatever reason, about time I say as we've been a soft touch in the transfer market for far too long.

 

I posted this a few days to you, you either haven't seen it or haven't responded.

 

Ashley has bought the club and must have known it would cost around 200m quid to buy it and cover the "manageable" debts.

Meaning he has cleared the slate, and can set about running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

If not, then he has decided to run with the manageable debt and run the club in the way he sees fit. [which doesn't make sense at all if he has plenty of money to clear it rather than pay the colossal interest]

 

Or - he was not aware of it, which means he isn't as smart as people make out. Everybody knows football clubs have debt, every investor knows football clubs have debts and will cost you money, he could have found this information anywhere.

 

Agree ?

 

I was chatting about this last night with a mate of mine who is a financial guy, and he says it is understandable that Ashley wants to conduct a review of the finances, but it is a complete no-go that he would not have knew more or less what the results would be, and decided to go with it all regarless, unless he's an idiot. And he more than likely isn't an idiot !!

 

Now. Nobody expects him to spend his own money in the long run, but getting back into europe asap benefits him, and everybody, agreed ?

 

Once established, the clubs fanbase - since 1992 anyway - put us among the top clubs able to beat the smaller clubs to top players, agreed ?

 

The sooner the better. Agreed ?

 

You have said yourself, that we will need a step up from these signings this summer to achieve these top positions, haven't you ?

 

It's a bit of a shame you are jumping down at me for presuming that I say Ashley should spend his own money, when plenty of people are clearly stating exactly that.

 

I want rid of Dyer, but if we keep him on, and don't play him - and lets face it his days are over - it is costing the club, or Ashley, money. Do you agree ?

 

 

Mort has said the clubs review has shown the debt to be higher than expected and something else (can't remember the exact term off the top of my head) to not be as strong as they expected, he also said the debt would have no impact on the clubs spending and that money has been put aside for the manager to buy players, however they won't be overpaying or that they won't panic buy.

 

So it seems Ashley is prepared to put his own money into buying players, this looks like being backed up by the possible signings of Dragutinovic from Sevilla and the Spanish under 21 leftback Jose Enrique, on top of that Allardyce is still talking about signing someone else.

 

If anything him standing up to West Ham shows that we're not dependent on the sale of Dyer to purchase Smith and that money is available.

[NE5]

I reckon that Dyer and his agent have engineered this move, all of these stories about family problems and eggs were probably placed in the press by Dyer's people to help along the move without actually asking for the transfer.

 

If he is now asking for £2m loyalty bonus because he didnt ask to be transferred, Mort has probably said, fine you can have it but your price is now £8m. Get out of that one without moving, as me dad used to say.

 

He either waves the loyaly fee or doesnt get the move. Classic 

 

Serve him right. Best thing for all is if he drops this claim and buggers off

 

 

[Toon Amy]

oopss, sorry Toon Army.... sorry Toon Amy.

 

BTW, I'm right. I always am. 

 

I'll forgive you this once!

 

 

[Guest Phil K]

f*** off and break a leg you c***.

We said, sir.

And may I add the tw*t doesn't need to break anything to take time off spending money on the sick ?

I hope to God he IS off.

I hope he ends up being booted out from club to club - always downwards.

No surp[rise to me that the Roast Ham fans weren't too happy about getting this overpaid parasite on their books.

[OzzieMandias]

I remember when we played Spurs in an earlier round of the cup at St James, and we slaughtered Spurs, I think Ginola might have scored and was eventually taken off, the booing was incredible, I can't really remember anybody getting that much stick.

 

On a side note to that one, I think I remember Dyer coming on as sub and playing a blinder.

 

I remember that game, and I never heard anyone get so much stick either. It was like some brilliant, insane pantomime. I jeered myself hoarse. I think we won 6-1, and Ginola got their goal, which made it even better somehow.

 

The best bit was just before half time, when he went down on his arse, and the ref waved play on. Ginola stayed on his arse, and the referee eventually came over and told him to get the fuck up and stop moaning. A few minutes later the half-time whistle went, and everyone trooped off except for Ginola, who went over to remonstrate further with the officials. He then had to walk from the centre circle back to the tunnel all by himself, with the entire crowd booing and jeering their heads off. Brilliant.

[Dokko]

"Stay out of my way... or you'll pay. Listen to what I say"

 

"Or how about I just go lay by the bay and make things out of clay. I just may. Whadd'ya say?"

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgH4ECnSRKI

 

a 10min recap of the funny bits

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfAC3vwuXWQ

 

mackems.gif

[Guest newcastle4life]

Looks like it might not happen then at least we aint being taken for mugs by Dyer or West Ham.

[NE5]

I'll be happier when we start throwing our financial weight around and beating smaller clubs to the top players

 

What financial weight is that?

 

Do you mean Mike Ashley throwing his own money around or do you want the club to go further into debt to buy players?

 

the financial weight gained from having one of the biggest crowds and fanbases in the country, what do you think ?

 

I think you should answer the whole post Baggio mate, it is quite clear that Tron is advocating Ashley uses either his money or the clubs' to keep a player on the payroll that wants to leave.

 

 

 

Do you even look at our financial results?

 

We may have a big crowd and fanbase but we've been operating at a loss for a few years now, which means any players we want to buy has to be borrowed on top of the debt we already have to pay back.

 

Would you be happy if we spent £20 million on players even if it pushed the clubs debts up to the £100 million mark?

 

Ashley is driving a hard bargain for a player for whatever reason, about time I say as we've been a soft touch in the transfer market for far too long.

 

I posted this a few days to you, you either haven't seen it or haven't responded.

 

Ashley has bought the club and must have known it would cost around 200m quid to buy it and cover the "manageable" debts.

Meaning he has cleared the slate, and can set about running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

If not, then he has decided to run with the manageable debt and run the club in the way he sees fit. [which doesn't make sense at all if he has plenty of money to clear it rather than pay the colossal interest]

 

Or - he was not aware of it, which means he isn't as smart as people make out. Everybody knows football clubs have debt, every investor knows football clubs have debts and will cost you money, he could have found this information anywhere.

 

Agree ?

 

I was chatting about this last night with a mate of mine who is a financial guy, and he says it is understandable that Ashley wants to conduct a review of the finances, but it is a complete no-go that he would not have knew more or less what the results would be, and decided to go with it all regarless, unless he's an idiot. And he more than likely isn't an idiot !!

 

Now. Nobody expects him to spend his own money in the long run, but getting back into europe asap benefits him, and everybody, agreed ?

 

Once established, the clubs fanbase - since 1992 anyway - put us among the top clubs able to beat the smaller clubs to top players, agreed ?

 

The sooner the better. Agreed ?

 

You have said yourself, that we will need a step up from these signings this summer to achieve these top positions, haven't you ?

 

It's a bit of a shame you are jumping down at me for presuming that I say Ashley should spend his own money, when plenty of people are clearly stating exactly that.

 

I want rid of Dyer, but if we keep him on, and don't play him - and lets face it his days are over - it is costing the club, or Ashley, money. Do you agree ?

 

 

Mort has said the clubs review has shown the debt to be higher than expected and something else (can't remember the exact term off the top of my head) to not be as strong as they expected, he also said the debt would have no impact on the clubs spending and that money has been put aside for the manager to buy players, however they won't be overpaying or that they won't panic buy.

 

So it seems Ashley is prepared to put his own money into buying players, this looks like being backed up by the possible signings of Dragutinovic from Sevilla and the Spanish under 21 leftback Jose Enrique, on top of that Allardyce is still talking about signing someone else.

 

If anything him standing up to West Ham shows that we're not dependent on the sale of Dyer to purchase Smith and that money is available.

 

Whats your problem.

 

I've said all along we should behave like a top club, which we have, and should continue doing so. How much do you estimate the debt is "extra" to what was estimated ? 2, 3 4m quid, more than that. Get it into context, he shouldn't allow figures such as this - when put against the total cost of the whole deal - to infringe much on whatever policy or strategy the club is adopting. Its the future of the club we are talking about here, and its important.

 

I am pleased we are standing up to West Ham, but my point remains, I am not particularly happy that we are going to possibly waste money and resources on keeping a player on massive wages to rot in the reserves, are you ? My guess - and hope - is that Dyer will realise he is better off forgetting it. But I do think that we should call his bluff if need be. That makes me advocate wasting money in this instance, that is correct, along with almost everyone else in this thread, including yourself I would guess. I agree with your last line, although I see it more as being prepared to write a small amount of money off having backed his manager to buy Smith in the expectation of Dyer going, but there is nowt wrong with that, its pretty good actually.

 

So far we have - presuming Dyer goes - spent what we have received, give or take a million quid either way, so far. All I want to see is ambition for the club. I'm not presuming anything until I see it, and I don't see what your problem is with this, if you want to presume that is up to you. As for giving them time, we don't have any choice, but blokes like me have been patient for sodding decades man !!!!

 

 

[Baggio]

I'll be happier when we start throwing our financial weight around and beating smaller clubs to the top players

 

What financial weight is that?

 

Do you mean Mike Ashley throwing his own money around or do you want the club to go further into debt to buy players?

 

the financial weight gained from having one of the biggest crowds and fanbases in the country, what do you think ?

 

I think you should answer the whole post Baggio mate, it is quite clear that Tron is advocating Ashley uses either his money or the clubs' to keep a player on the payroll that wants to leave.

 

 

 

Do you even look at our financial results?

 

We may have a big crowd and fanbase but we've been operating at a loss for a few years now, which means any players we want to buy has to be borrowed on top of the debt we already have to pay back.

 

Would you be happy if we spent £20 million on players even if it pushed the clubs debts up to the £100 million mark?

 

Ashley is driving a hard bargain for a player for whatever reason, about time I say as we've been a soft touch in the transfer market for far too long.

 

I posted this a few days to you, you either haven't seen it or haven't responded.

 

Ashley has bought the club and must have known it would cost around 200m quid to buy it and cover the "manageable" debts.

Meaning he has cleared the slate, and can set about running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

If not, then he has decided to run with the manageable debt and run the club in the way he sees fit. [which doesn't make sense at all if he has plenty of money to clear it rather than pay the colossal interest]

 

Or - he was not aware of it, which means he isn't as smart as people make out. Everybody knows football clubs have debt, every investor knows football clubs have debts and will cost you money, he could have found this information anywhere.

 

Agree ?

 

I was chatting about this last night with a mate of mine who is a financial guy, and he says it is understandable that Ashley wants to conduct a review of the finances, but it is a complete no-go that he would not have knew more or less what the results would be, and decided to go with it all regarless, unless he's an idiot. And he more than likely isn't an idiot !!

 

Now. Nobody expects him to spend his own money in the long run, but getting back into europe asap benefits him, and everybody, agreed ?

 

Once established, the clubs fanbase - since 1992 anyway - put us among the top clubs able to beat the smaller clubs to top players, agreed ?

 

The sooner the better. Agreed ?

 

You have said yourself, that we will need a step up from these signings this summer to achieve these top positions, haven't you ?

 

It's a bit of a shame you are jumping down at me for presuming that I say Ashley should spend his own money, when plenty of people are clearly stating exactly that.

 

I want rid of Dyer, but if we keep him on, and don't play him - and lets face it his days are over - it is costing the club, or Ashley, money. Do you agree ?

 

 

Mort has said the clubs review has shown the debt to be higher than expected and something else (can't remember the exact term off the top of my head) to not be as strong as they expected, he also said the debt would have no impact on the clubs spending and that money has been put aside for the manager to buy players, however they won't be overpaying or that they won't panic buy.

 

So it seems Ashley is prepared to put his own money into buying players, this looks like being backed up by the possible signings of Dragutinovic from Sevilla and the Spanish under 21 leftback Jose Enrique, on top of that Allardyce is still talking about signing someone else.

 

If anything him standing up to West Ham shows that we're not dependent on the sale of Dyer to purchase Smith and that money is available.

 

Whats your problem.

 

I've said all along we should behave like a top club, which we have, and should continue doing so. How much do you estimate the debt is "extra" to what was estimated ? 2, 3 4m quid, more than that. Get it into context, he shouldn't allow figures such as this - when put against the total cost of the whole deal - to infringe much on whatever policy or strategy the club is adopting. Its the future of the club we are talking about here, and its important.

 

I am pleased we are standing up to West Ham, but my point remains, I am not particularly happy that we are going to possibly waste money and resources on keeping a player on massive wages to rot in the reserves, are you ? My guess - and hope - is that Dyer will realise he is better off forgetting it. But I do think that we should call his bluff if need be. That makes me advocate wasting money in this instance, that is correct, along with almost everyone else in this thread, including yourself I would guess. I agree with your last line, although I see it more as being prepared to write a small amount of money off having backed his manager to buy Smith in the expectation of Dyer going, but there is nowt wrong with that, its pretty good actually.

 

So far we have - presuming Dyer goes - spent what we have received, give or take a million quid either way, so far. All I want to see is ambition for the club. I'm not presuming anything until I see it, and I don't see what your problem is with this, if you want to presume that is up to you. As for giving them time, we don't have any choice, but blokes like me have been patient for sodding decades man !!!!

 

 

 

So how much should we be spending net this summer?

 

What figure would make you happy?

[NE5]

I'll be happier when we start throwing our financial weight around and beating smaller clubs to the top players

 

What financial weight is that?

 

Do you mean Mike Ashley throwing his own money around or do you want the club to go further into debt to buy players?

 

the financial weight gained from having one of the biggest crowds and fanbases in the country, what do you think ?

 

I think you should answer the whole post Baggio mate, it is quite clear that Tron is advocating Ashley uses either his money or the clubs' to keep a player on the payroll that wants to leave.

 

 

 

Do you even look at our financial results?

 

We may have a big crowd and fanbase but we've been operating at a loss for a few years now, which means any players we want to buy has to be borrowed on top of the debt we already have to pay back.

 

Would you be happy if we spent £20 million on players even if it pushed the clubs debts up to the £100 million mark?

 

Ashley is driving a hard bargain for a player for whatever reason, about time I say as we've been a soft touch in the transfer market for far too long.

 

I posted this a few days to you, you either haven't seen it or haven't responded.

 

Ashley has bought the club and must have known it would cost around 200m quid to buy it and cover the "manageable" debts.

Meaning he has cleared the slate, and can set about running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

If not, then he has decided to run with the manageable debt and run the club in the way he sees fit. [which doesn't make sense at all if he has plenty of money to clear it rather than pay the colossal interest]

 

Or - he was not aware of it, which means he isn't as smart as people make out. Everybody knows football clubs have debt, every investor knows football clubs have debts and will cost you money, he could have found this information anywhere.

 

Agree ?

 

I was chatting about this last night with a mate of mine who is a financial guy, and he says it is understandable that Ashley wants to conduct a review of the finances, but it is a complete no-go that he would not have knew more or less what the results would be, and decided to go with it all regarless, unless he's an idiot. And he more than likely isn't an idiot !!

 

Now. Nobody expects him to spend his own money in the long run, but getting back into europe asap benefits him, and everybody, agreed ?

 

Once established, the clubs fanbase - since 1992 anyway - put us among the top clubs able to beat the smaller clubs to top players, agreed ?

 

The sooner the better. Agreed ?

 

You have said yourself, that we will need a step up from these signings this summer to achieve these top positions, haven't you ?

 

It's a bit of a shame you are jumping down at me for presuming that I say Ashley should spend his own money, when plenty of people are clearly stating exactly that.

 

I want rid of Dyer, but if we keep him on, and don't play him - and lets face it his days are over - it is costing the club, or Ashley, money. Do you agree ?

 

 

Mort has said the clubs review has shown the debt to be higher than expected and something else (can't remember the exact term off the top of my head) to not be as strong as they expected, he also said the debt would have no impact on the clubs spending and that money has been put aside for the manager to buy players, however they won't be overpaying or that they won't panic buy.

 

So it seems Ashley is prepared to put his own money into buying players, this looks like being backed up by the possible signings of Dragutinovic from Sevilla and the Spanish under 21 leftback Jose Enrique, on top of that Allardyce is still talking about signing someone else.

 

If anything him standing up to West Ham shows that we're not dependent on the sale of Dyer to purchase Smith and that money is available.

 

Whats your problem.

 

I've said all along we should behave like a top club, which we have, and should continue doing so. How much do you estimate the debt is "extra" to what was estimated ? 2, 3 4m quid, more than that. Get it into context, he shouldn't allow figures such as this - when put against the total cost of the whole deal - to infringe much on whatever policy or strategy the club is adopting. Its the future of the club we are talking about here, and its important.

 

I am pleased we are standing up to West Ham, but my point remains, I am not particularly happy that we are going to possibly waste money and resources on keeping a player on massive wages to rot in the reserves, are you ? My guess - and hope - is that Dyer will realise he is better off forgetting it. But I do think that we should call his bluff if need be. That makes me advocate wasting money in this instance, that is correct, along with almost everyone else in this thread, including yourself I would guess. I agree with your last line, although I see it more as being prepared to write a small amount of money off having backed his manager to buy Smith in the expectation of Dyer going, but there is nowt wrong with that, its pretty good actually.

 

So far we have - presuming Dyer goes - spent what we have received, give or take a million quid either way, so far. All I want to see is ambition for the club. I'm not presuming anything until I see it, and I don't see what your problem is with this, if you want to presume that is up to you. As for giving them time, we don't have any choice, but blokes like me have been patient for sodding decades man !!!!

 

 

 

So how much should we be spending net this summer?

 

What figure would make you happy?

 

It would appear that the comment that Allardyce made last week about them not understanding enough and they would be foolish not to back him, has had an effect. So that will do me for now, and hope he doesn't have to say it again.

 

How much ? Only Allardyce can answer that, as only he knows who he wants to buy and what he has asked for. If they realise now that we have missed out on one or two targets that he wanted through their lack of understanding [Allardyces own words], and taken it on board, then that is fine.

 

I take it you generally agree with the rest of my post, but I'm curious to know which of those 3 options you think is the correct one  ?

 

 

[Mick]

 

Whats your problem.

 

I've said all along we should behave like a top club, which we have, and should continue doing so. How much do you estimate the debt is "extra" to what was estimated ? 2, 3 4m quid, more than that. Get it into context, he shouldn't allow figures such as this - when put against the total cost of the whole deal - to infringe much on whatever policy or strategy the club is adopting. Its the future of the club we are talking about here, and its important.

 

I am pleased we are standing up to West Ham, but my point remains, I am not particularly happy that we are going to possibly waste money and resources on keeping a player on massive wages to rot in the reserves, are you ? My guess - and hope - is that Dyer will realise he is better off forgetting it. But I do think that we should call his bluff if need be. That makes me advocate wasting money in this instance, that is correct, along with almost everyone else in this thread, including yourself I would guess. I agree with your last line, although I see it more as being prepared to write a small amount of money off having backed his manager to buy Smith in the expectation of Dyer going, but there is nowt wrong with that, its pretty good actually.

 

So far we have - presuming Dyer goes - spent what we have received, give or take a million quid either way, so far. All I want to see is ambition for the club. I'm not presuming anything until I see it, and I don't see what your problem is with this, if you want to presume that is up to you. As for giving them time, we don't have any choice, but blokes like me have been patient for sodding decades man !!!!

 

 

 

I can't see why you ask Baggio "Whats your problem."  It would appear that you have the problem, he seems quite happy the way things are going and he's seeing exactly the same as you are.

 

As for the debt infringing much on the policy/strategy of the club, Mort has said that our level of debt will not stop us signing players so it clearly isn't getting in the way.  They are clearly not happy with the debt and are going to do something about it, by that I don't mean living with it or adding to it.

 

You are pleased that we are standing up to West Ham then say you're not particularly happy that we'll possibly waste money, we've been wasting money for years and that's why we're in debt, for far too long we've been mugs, we've bought high and sold low, at least that may now be a thing of the past.

 

Again you tie spending to ambition, spending isn't a sign of ambition, wanting to take the club forwards is ambition and it doesn't matter if that costs money or makes us money, its ambition.

 

The fact that you only see spending as being a sign of ambition is your problem.  Spending can be a sign of ambition but it can also just be a sign of trying to appease people who can be bluffed into thinking it's ambition, spending is easy, getting value for money isn't.

 

[ChezGiven]

 

It would appear that the comment that Allardyce made last week about them not understanding enough and they would be foolish not to back him, has had an effect. So that will do me for now, and hope he doesn't have to say it again.

 

 

I think the game against Hull may also have had an effect. That was a great example of our defenisive strength in depth.

[Baggio]

I'll be happier when we start throwing our financial weight around and beating smaller clubs to the top players

 

What financial weight is that?

 

Do you mean Mike Ashley throwing his own money around or do you want the club to go further into debt to buy players?

 

the financial weight gained from having one of the biggest crowds and fanbases in the country, what do you think ?

 

I think you should answer the whole post Baggio mate, it is quite clear that Tron is advocating Ashley uses either his money or the clubs' to keep a player on the payroll that wants to leave.

 

 

 

Do you even look at our financial results?

 

We may have a big crowd and fanbase but we've been operating at a loss for a few years now, which means any players we want to buy has to be borrowed on top of the debt we already have to pay back.

 

Would you be happy if we spent £20 million on players even if it pushed the clubs debts up to the £100 million mark?

 

Ashley is driving a hard bargain for a player for whatever reason, about time I say as we've been a soft touch in the transfer market for far too long.

 

I posted this a few days to you, you either haven't seen it or haven't responded.

 

Ashley has bought the club and must have known it would cost around 200m quid to buy it and cover the "manageable" debts.

Meaning he has cleared the slate, and can set about running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

If not, then he has decided to run with the manageable debt and run the club in the way he sees fit. [which doesn't make sense at all if he has plenty of money to clear it rather than pay the colossal interest]

 

Or - he was not aware of it, which means he isn't as smart as people make out. Everybody knows football clubs have debt, every investor knows football clubs have debts and will cost you money, he could have found this information anywhere.

 

Agree ?

 

I was chatting about this last night with a mate of mine who is a financial guy, and he says it is understandable that Ashley wants to conduct a review of the finances, but it is a complete no-go that he would not have knew more or less what the results would be, and decided to go with it all regarless, unless he's an idiot. And he more than likely isn't an idiot !!

 

Now. Nobody expects him to spend his own money in the long run, but getting back into europe asap benefits him, and everybody, agreed ?

 

Once established, the clubs fanbase - since 1992 anyway - put us among the top clubs able to beat the smaller clubs to top players, agreed ?

 

The sooner the better. Agreed ?

 

You have said yourself, that we will need a step up from these signings this summer to achieve these top positions, haven't you ?

 

It's a bit of a shame you are jumping down at me for presuming that I say Ashley should spend his own money, when plenty of people are clearly stating exactly that.

 

I want rid of Dyer, but if we keep him on, and don't play him - and lets face it his days are over - it is costing the club, or Ashley, money. Do you agree ?

 

 

Mort has said the clubs review has shown the debt to be higher than expected and something else (can't remember the exact term off the top of my head) to not be as strong as they expected, he also said the debt would have no impact on the clubs spending and that money has been put aside for the manager to buy players, however they won't be overpaying or that they won't panic buy.

 

So it seems Ashley is prepared to put his own money into buying players, this looks like being backed up by the possible signings of Dragutinovic from Sevilla and the Spanish under 21 leftback Jose Enrique, on top of that Allardyce is still talking about signing someone else.

 

If anything him standing up to West Ham shows that we're not dependent on the sale of Dyer to purchase Smith and that money is available.

 

Whats your problem.

 

I've said all along we should behave like a top club, which we have, and should continue doing so. How much do you estimate the debt is "extra" to what was estimated ? 2, 3 4m quid, more than that. Get it into context, he shouldn't allow figures such as this - when put against the total cost of the whole deal - to infringe much on whatever policy or strategy the club is adopting. Its the future of the club we are talking about here, and its important.

 

I am pleased we are standing up to West Ham, but my point remains, I am not particularly happy that we are going to possibly waste money and resources on keeping a player on massive wages to rot in the reserves, are you ? My guess - and hope - is that Dyer will realise he is better off forgetting it. But I do think that we should call his bluff if need be. That makes me advocate wasting money in this instance, that is correct, along with almost everyone else in this thread, including yourself I would guess. I agree with your last line, although I see it more as being prepared to write a small amount of money off having backed his manager to buy Smith in the expectation of Dyer going, but there is nowt wrong with that, its pretty good actually.

 

So far we have - presuming Dyer goes - spent what we have received, give or take a million quid either way, so far. All I want to see is ambition for the club. I'm not presuming anything until I see it, and I don't see what your problem is with this, if you want to presume that is up to you. As for giving them time, we don't have any choice, but blokes like me have been patient for sodding decades man !!!!

 

 

 

So how much should we be spending net this summer?

 

What figure would make you happy?

 

It would appear that the comment that Allardyce made last week about them not understanding enough and they would be foolish not to back him, has had an effect. So that will do me for now, and hope he doesn't have to say it again.

 

How much ? Only Allardyce can answer that, as only he knows who he wants to buy and what he has asked for.

 

I take it you agree with the rest of my post ?

 

 

 

I can't be bothered to argue with you on a Saturday afternoon is why I didn't reply to the rest.

 

To start with we don't know how much extra the debt is, you say 3 or 4 million extra but it could be quite abit more than this, Ashley bought the club up without doing due diligence which means he wouldn't have known about all of the hidden things which seem to be the problem, perhaps he should of but that's the way he prefers to do business and it's made him a billionaire so you can't fault his logic.

 

If he did undertake due diligence then would he have still bought the club? maybe he would maybe he wouldn't, both Polygon and Belgravia did and backed out of the deal which suggests the club hasn't been ran that well for a while now, Mort said without trying to be too damning of the previous board that things were not that good behind the scenes, it's up to him and Ashley to try and get a grip on it and bring it down.

 

As for Dyer, if he's been tapped up which seems to be the case then why should he be allowed to leave with a big pay off? Fair play to Ashley for standing his ground as we've sold players far to cheap in the past while overpaying when buying players, if Dyer has to stay it won't be ideal but he's still got alot to offer the first team if he does IMO, about time someone stood up to West Ham who have been taking the piss with the whole Tevez deal anyway.

 

As for how much Allardyce should have to spend, I don't think it's a case of how much you've got than what you do with it, I'm happy with the players we've brought in so far even if we haven't spent much money in the process, I think they will improve our team massively although we still need defenders, I believe Sam and Mort when they say players won't come because we don't have European football and I don't agree that we should give them bigger contracts to compensate for it, as long as we get the players in we need I don't care if we spend £5 million or £50 million.

 

I think you're reading too much into some of Allardyce's comments too.

[NE5]

 

Whats your problem.

 

I've said all along we should behave like a top club, which we have, and should continue doing so. How much do you estimate the debt is "extra" to what was estimated ? 2, 3 4m quid, more than that. Get it into context, he shouldn't allow figures such as this - when put against the total cost of the whole deal - to infringe much on whatever policy or strategy the club is adopting. Its the future of the club we are talking about here, and its important.

 

I am pleased we are standing up to West Ham, but my point remains, I am not particularly happy that we are going to possibly waste money and resources on keeping a player on massive wages to rot in the reserves, are you ? My guess - and hope - is that Dyer will realise he is better off forgetting it. But I do think that we should call his bluff if need be. That makes me advocate wasting money in this instance, that is correct, along with almost everyone else in this thread, including yourself I would guess. I agree with your last line, although I see it more as being prepared to write a small amount of money off having backed his manager to buy Smith in the expectation of Dyer going, but there is nowt wrong with that, its pretty good actually.

 

So far we have - presuming Dyer goes - spent what we have received, give or take a million quid either way, so far. All I want to see is ambition for the club. I'm not presuming anything until I see it, and I don't see what your problem is with this, if you want to presume that is up to you. As for giving them time, we don't have any choice, but blokes like me have been patient for sodding decades man !!!!

 

 

 

I can't see why you ask Baggio "Whats your problem."  It would appear that you have the problem, he seems quite happy the way things are going and he's seeing exactly the same as you are.

 

 

but you have had a problem for the last decade then, playing in europe, reaching 2 FA Cup Finals, filling the stadium, and buying top

international footballers because you've never stopped whining on about it.

 

I think that Baggio is capable of posting his own reply.

 

 

 

 

[Baggio]

 

It would appear that the comment that Allardyce made last week about them not understanding enough and they would be foolish not to back him, has had an effect. So that will do me for now, and hope he doesn't have to say it again.

 

 

I think the game against Hull may also have had an effect. That was a great example of our defenisive strength in depth.

 

I think it's always been a case of us going for players, Allardyce has said all along he wants 3 or 4 defenders so I can't see what the Hull game has to do with it.

 

I think both of the comments NE5 is referring to can be easily taken out of context too.

[ChezGiven]

 

It would appear that the comment that Allardyce made last week about them not understanding enough and they would be foolish not to back him, has had an effect. So that will do me for now, and hope he doesn't have to say it again.

 

 

I think the game against Hull may also have had an effect. That was a great example of our defenisive strength in depth.

 

I think it's always been a case of us going for players, Allardyce has said all along he wants 3 or 4 defenders so I can't see what the Hull game has to do with it.

 

I think both of the comments NE5 is referring to can be easily taken out of context too.

 

Fair enough. The Hull game cant have hurt in terms of giving extra impetus to it though, as it did show a lot of our weaknesses.

[NE5]

I'll be happier when we start throwing our financial weight around and beating smaller clubs to the top players

 

What financial weight is that?

 

Do you mean Mike Ashley throwing his own money around or do you want the club to go further into debt to buy players?

 

the financial weight gained from having one of the biggest crowds and fanbases in the country, what do you think ?

 

I think you should answer the whole post Baggio mate, it is quite clear that Tron is advocating Ashley uses either his money or the clubs' to keep a player on the payroll that wants to leave.

 

 

 

Do you even look at our financial results?

 

We may have a big crowd and fanbase but we've been operating at a loss for a few years now, which means any players we want to buy has to be borrowed on top of the debt we already have to pay back.

 

Would you be happy if we spent £20 million on players even if it pushed the clubs debts up to the £100 million mark?

 

Ashley is driving a hard bargain for a player for whatever reason, about time I say as we've been a soft touch in the transfer market for far too long.

 

I posted this a few days to you, you either haven't seen it or haven't responded.

 

Ashley has bought the club and must have known it would cost around 200m quid to buy it and cover the "manageable" debts.

Meaning he has cleared the slate, and can set about running the club in the way he sees fit.

 

If not, then he has decided to run with the manageable debt and run the club in the way he sees fit. [which doesn't make sense at all if he has plenty of money to clear it rather than pay the colossal interest]

 

Or - he was not aware of it, which means he isn't as smart as people make out. Everybody knows football clubs have debt, every investor knows football clubs have debts and will cost you money, he could have found this information anywhere.

 

Agree ?

 

I was chatting about this last night with a mate of mine who is a financial guy, and he says it is understandable that Ashley wants to conduct a review of the finances, but it is a complete no-go that he would not have knew more or less what the results would be, and decided to go with it all regarless, unless he's an idiot. And he more than likely isn't an idiot !!

 

Now. Nobody expects him to spend his own money in the long run, but getting back into europe asap benefits him, and everybody, agreed ?

 

Once established, the clubs fanbase - since 1992 anyway - put us among the top clubs able to beat the smaller clubs to top players, agreed ?

 

The sooner the better. Agreed ?

 

You have said yourself, that we will need a step up from these signings this summer to achieve these top positions, haven't you ?

 

It's a bit of a shame you are jumping down at me for presuming that I say Ashley should spend his own money, when plenty of people are clearly stating exactly that.

 

I want rid of Dyer, but if we keep him on, and don't play him - and lets face it his days are over - it is costing the club, or Ashley, money. Do you agree ?

 

 

Mort has said the clubs review has shown the debt to be higher than expected and something else (can't remember the exact term off the top of my head) to not be as strong as they expected, he also said the debt would have no impact on the clubs spending and that money has been put aside for the manager to buy players, however they won't be overpaying or that they won't panic buy.

 

So it seems Ashley is prepared to put his own money into buying players, this looks like being backed up by the possible signings of Dragutinovic from Sevilla and the Spanish under 21 leftback Jose Enrique, on top of that Allardyce is still talking about signing someone else.

 

If anything him standing up to West Ham shows that we're not dependent on the sale of Dyer to purchase Smith and that money is available.

 

Whats your problem.

 

I've said all along we should behave like a top club, which we have, and should continue doing so. How much do you estimate the debt is "extra" to what was estimated ? 2, 3 4m quid, more than that. Get it into context, he shouldn't allow figures such as this - when put against the total cost of the whole deal - to infringe much on whatever policy or strategy the club is adopting. Its the future of the club we are talking about here, and its important.

 

I am pleased we are standing up to West Ham, but my point remains, I am not particularly happy that we are going to possibly waste money and resources on keeping a player on massive wages to rot in the reserves, are you ? My guess - and hope - is that Dyer will realise he is better off forgetting it. But I do think that we should call his bluff if need be. That makes me advocate wasting money in this instance, that is correct, along with almost everyone else in this thread, including yourself I would guess. I agree with your last line, although I see it more as being prepared to write a small amount of money off having backed his manager to buy Smith in the expectation of Dyer going, but there is nowt wrong with that, its pretty good actually.

 

So far we have - presuming Dyer goes - spent what we have received, give or take a million quid either way, so far. All I want to see is ambition for the club. I'm not presuming anything until I see it, and I don't see what your problem is with this, if you want to presume that is up to you. As for giving them time, we don't have any choice, but blokes like me have been patient for sodding decades man !!!!

 

 

 

So how much should we be spending net this summer?

 

What figure would make you happy?

 

It would appear that the comment that Allardyce made last week about them not understanding enough and they would be foolish not to back him, has had an effect. So that will do me for now, and hope he doesn't have to say it again.

 

How much ? Only Allardyce can answer that, as only he knows who he wants to buy and what he has asked for.

 

I take it you agree with the rest of my post ?

 

 

 

I can't be bothered to argue with you on a Saturday afternoon is why I didn't reply to the rest.

 

To start with we don't know how much extra the debt is, you say 3 or 4 million extra but it could be quite abit more than this, Ashley bought the club up without doing due diligence which means he wouldn't have known about all of the hidden things which seem to be the problem, perhaps he should of but that's the way he prefers to do business and it's made him a billionaire so you can't fault his logic.

 

If he did undertake due diligence then would he have still bought the club? maybe he would maybe he wouldn't, both Polygon and Belgravia did and backed out of the deal which suggests the club hasn't been ran that well for a while now, Mort said without trying to be too damning of the previous board that things were not that good behind the scenes, it's up to him and Ashley to try and get a grip on it and bring it down.

 

As for Dyer, if he's been tapped up which seems to be the case then why should he be allowed to leave with a big pay off? Fair play to Ashley for standing his ground as we've sold players far to cheap in the past while overpaying when buying players, if Dyer has to stay it won't be ideal but he's still got alot to offer the first team if he does IMO, about time someone stood up to West Ham who have been taking the piss with the whole Tevez deal anyway.

 

As for how much Allardyce should have to spend, I don't think it's a case of how much you've got than what you do with it, I'm happy with the players we've brought in so far even if we haven't spent much money in the process, I think they will improve our team massively although we still need defenders, I believe Sam and Mort when they say players won't come because we don't have European football and I don't agree that we should give them bigger contracts to compensate for it, as long as we get the players in we need I don't care if we spend £5 million or £50 million.

 

I think you're reading too much into some of Allardyce's comments too.

 

I'm not arguing either. And I'm going out soon and may not be back until tomorrow.

 

None of us know what this review has found.

 

I think everybody agrees that we should let Dyer rot rather than give in to him or West Ham, but I fail to understand why it was me you took up on it, almost everyone is in favour of wasting resources in this case as a matter or principle.

 

None of us know how much he has asked the board for.

 

We do know the comments Allardyce made, and it would appear that they have had some effect. I would imagine we all hope that he doesn't have to do it again.

 

I think not enough people have been aware of the possible implications of what Sam said, I think they should have been worried.

We differ on that one. Managers walk for things like this, whether you like it or not, and they wouldn't be concerned about financial reviews, the only thing they look for is backing, and they will look after their own careers.

 

We all hope these new players are good for us and we have a better season, and build from there, and keep on improving and moving.

 

 

[Mick]

 

but you have had a problem for the last decade then, playing in europe, reaching 2 FA Cup Finals, filling the stadium, and buying top

international footballers because you've never stopped whining on about it.

 

I think that Baggio is capable of posting his own reply.

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't have a problem with the last decade at all, I had problems with certain things which happened during that time but not with everything.

 

It's like everything in life that you don't like, you put up with it and then something goes wrong and you say "enough is enough."

 

I got to that point when Shepherd announced that Bobby was to leave the club at the end of the year, that was the thing that made me think that we were being run by an idiot.  From that point Bobby had no authority with the players because they knew he was going to be leaving the club before them.  The decision to not give him a new contract isn't what I had a problem with, it was announcing it to the press.  That was the turning point when Shepherd became a liability and everything until recently went down-hill from that moment.

 

I know that Douglas Hall probably had as much to do with Robson going, that's not the point, Shepherd dropped the bollock of announcing it to everybody, that was the mistake that turned Bobby into a lame duck, not finishing him, that's why we got Souness and that's also why we got Roeder, that's why we've wasted the last 3 years.

 

[Baggio]

If you have a look back mate it was you who brought Dyer into it by saying about Ashley keeping players who want to leave.

[Mick]

 

I'm not arguing either. And I'm going out soon and may not be back until tomorrow.

 

None of us know what this review has found.

 

I think everybody agrees that we should let Dyer rot rather than give in to him or West Ham, but I fail to understand why it was me you took up on it, almost everyone is in favour of wasting resources in this case as a matter or principle.

 

None of us know how much he has asked the board for.

 

We do know the comments Allardyce made, and it would appear that they have had some effect. I would imagine we all hope that he doesn't have to do it again.

 

I think not enough people have been aware of the possible implications of what Sam said, I think they should have been worried.

We differ on that one. Managers walk for things like this, whether you like it or not, and they wouldn't be concerned about financial reviews, the only thing they look for is backing, and they will look after their own careers.

 

We all hope these new players are good for us and we have a better season, and build from there, and keep on improving and moving.

 

 

 

Good post, for a change.

[stozo]

Idiotic move by us. We really have no hand to play. If the transfer doesn't go through we are left with a player who does not want to be here and who will undoubtly become dejected and be of no value to us on the pitch. I mean can anyone actually see Dyer coming back and getting on with it, I certainly can't and I thoroughly expect him to play up fuck and disturb the dressing room until he gets his wish.

 

It's going to be a complete disaster as if we keep him as undoubtly we'll have to sell him in January or next summer for half the price as he'll mope about and stir shit which will leave us no option but to not play him.

[relámpago blanco]

I don't think there was any issue with money.  I think Sam wanted experienced quality prem defenders.  He tried to get them in but there weren't any available at the right money so he went to the continent.  The smith deal is coincidental.  A quality player was on the market for a good price by todays standards so we moved for him.

[OzzieMandias]

 

I think everybody agrees that we should let Dyer rot rather than give in to him or West Ham, but I fail to understand why it was me you took up on it, almost everyone is in favour of wasting resources in this case as a matter or principle.

 

 

Welll I'm not up for us wasting resources, and talking about matters of principle is bollocks as none of us on here knows the truth about what's been going on with this transfer.

 

If Dyer's on the books, and fit, he should play when the manager thinks it makes tactical sense.

[EthiGeordie]

  If reports are true I will be happy than anything Ashley is directly involve with things. It makes us thick and if he is much optimistic he will give us one trophy signing at the end of the month. Cheers

[Mick]

Idiotic move by us. We really have no hand to play. If the transfer doesn't go through we are left with a player who does not want to be here and who will undoubtly become dejected and be of no value to us on the pitch. I mean can anyone actually see Dyer coming back and getting on with it, I certainly can't and I thoroughly expect him to play up f*** and disturb the dressing room until he gets his wish.

 

It's going to be a complete disaster as if we keep him as undoubtly we'll have to sell him in January or next summer for half the price as he'll mope about and stir s*** which will leave us no option but to not play him.

 

I don't see it as an idiotic move, if Dyer does play up then we can do to him what we did to Robert when we farmed him out but were still paying his wages, we can fine him.  We're sending out a message that we're not mugs and will not just go along with what Dyer or West Ham want us to go along with.

 

Bowing to a player or another club would have been idiotic.  We're no longer going to be a soft touch and will only benefit from this stance in future when we're dealing with other clubs and players.